Anyone considering the new salsa timberjack?

[Britt]

I'm really looking at the new timberjack. Probably will have the salsa carbon fork put on it though. Anyone else thinking about the new timberjack?

[Hayduke]

The Timberjack is/was on my wife's shortlist for a new general purpose 27.5 plus bike. She called all over Phoenix the other day and it was no'bueno. It turns out more folks have seen sasquatch on the Moggion Rim than have actually laid eyes on one, excepting bike bloggers of course  :- )

.....same story with the 27.5 Karate Monkey.

She doesn't have a lot a patients for that sort of thing so it looks like she's going to pull the trigger on a 2016 Specialized RuzeComp and take advantage of year end pricing. She was actually able to ride one and liked it.

[dave]

I'm really looking at the new timberjack. Probably will have the salsa carbon fork put on it though. Anyone else thinking about the new timberjack?

 

I agree that the Timberjack looks like a fun bike, but I think putting the Firestarter fork on it would be a really bad idea.  The TJ is specifically meant to be a modern trail hardtail and it's spec'ed with a 130mm suspension fork.  If you put the Firestarter on it, you're losing over 60mm of axle-to-crown height, which would completely ruin the geometry and make it no fun to ride.   

If you want a rigid steel bike, why not something more like the Kona Unit (or many other options)?

[MikeC]

I'm really looking at the new timberjack. Probably will have the salsa carbon fork put on it though. Anyone else thinking about the new timberjack?

No.

[Chuhas]

I am for sure. A bike shop I talked to here in Denver said they should have them in stock soon...

Can't wait to check it out.

Also looking at the Marin Pine Mountain 1.

[theTallMan]

Just put a deposit down at LBS in Canada. I was told to expect it around f the end of the year. They probably won't get any more after the initial shipment.

[Inertiaman]

I agree that the Timberjack looks like a fun bike, but I think putting the Firestarter fork on it would be a really bad idea.  The TJ is specifically meant to be a modern trail hardtail and it's spec'ed with a 130mm suspension fork.  If you put the Firestarter on it, you're losing over 60mm of axle-to-crown height, which would completely ruin the geometry and make it no fun to ride.   

If you want a rigid steel bike, why not something more like the Kona Unit (or many other options)?

Some inaccuracy and hyperbole here. 
a) Timberjack complete is spec'd with a 120mm fork not 130mm
b) Firestarter carbon fork is 483mm c-to-a.  To change crown-to-axle "by over 60mm" would translate to a 140mm fork unsagged or a 170mm fork sagged.  Hardly apt examples.
c) Salsa themselves show geo charts with both 120mm suspension and 483mm rigid forks: BB lowers by only 6mm and HTA changes only 0.8 degrees.  Keep in mind that Salsa (rightly) uses a sagged fork length for their suspension geo's, so in this case ~ 523mm-24mm=499mm for sagged 120mm travel fork.

So in reality the c-to-a changes by 16mm, not "over 60mm" and the geo is preserved.

The Timberjack would function fine w/ an appropriate length rigid fork.  A TJ + carbon Firestarter could be an excellent bikepacking rig on routes that don't beg for suspension forks.

[mmeiser]

Thanks @Inertiaman. Good analysis.

Am torn, I think the Timberjack would make an amazing all purpose touring and gravel grinder with either the cromoly fork or carbon firestarter and a drop bar. Have not done drop bar geometry analysis, but i assume it would be no problem.  The biggest idea being that it's going to be lighter/ much lighter than my steel fargo, so much cheaper and more rough and tumble version of my titanium fargo. Making it more practical for rough and tumble touring.  I also really like the shorter chain stay length. It should make it a quicker climber.   

The only negative is it doesn't do full 29x3 and for me it's got to be 29x3 rather then 27.5x3 because i'm 6'4". There's just no such thing as a tire to big.

I had been thinking of upgrading my steel fargo to the new 29x3 version.  The alternative is I go 29x3 on my mukluk and make that my dedicated back country tourer with 26x4 or 29x3. Maybe even add a jones bar. This leaves me free to pursue my Timber/Fargo all rounder.

I could then upgrade my current steel fargo frame to the timberjack and simply re-use all my components and steel fargo front fork. Lighter, shorter chainstay for climbing, new paint, more rustproof frame.

The ti fargo will always remain my ultimate fast / light tourer... and most ridden. Whether doing 20+mph club rides or just cruising across a state in day or un-racing, ultra-endurance. The Timber/fargo would be the workhorse tourer for wear and tear/ The mukluk my winter ride and back country tourer.

I like it.

After all, how many fargo's does one need?

[Inertiaman]

Geometrically speaking I think the Timberjack would make a poor drop bar platform.  The stack/reach numbers make it difficult and rife with compromises.  Consider that the reach of a size Small Timberjack is greater than the reach of a size XL Fargo.  Or comparing a size Large on both of them, reach is 384mm versus 459mm.  To duplicate your current drop bar cockpit, you'd need inches of spacers under the stem and a ~ 35mm stem. Presumably the steering would be very wonky.

Similarly, its a severe compromise to try and set a Fargo up w/ flat bars.  The reach/TT is just too short.

IMHO, you really need to make a fundamental choice over drop versus flat, as few/no frames can really serve both approaches without severe compromises.  And if you REALLY want a frame to try and go both ways, you're better off picking one with an in-between TT / reach length, like an older MTB geometry.  The Timberjack has a pretty new-school geo, with a very long TT / reach (40-50mm longer than similar class bikes just a few years ago), so a poor candidate for drop bar setup.

[Inertiaman]

I should also add that 29x3 *might* work on the Timberjack, despite Salsa not spec'ing it as such, *if* you use some of the smaller 29x3 and set the Alternators for longest chainstay length.  The stock builds have a LOT of clearance around the 27.5x3" Rocket Rons, even in the shortest chainstay setting.  Surely a Fat B Nimble 19x3.0" will fit in the longest chainstay setting.  And maybe a Bomboloni.  BB height will be compromised, but not too bad (maybe 10mm higher than optimal) and that could conceivably be countered by running a 100mm fork if you can live with a 69deg head angle.  Once my own frame is in hand, I'll try to do some test fittings and share.  Probably 2 weeks from now.

[mmeiser]

I have done my analysis of the geometry and even tried putting a 29x3 knard/rabbit hole on the rear.  I cannot say it is for everyone, but for me its a no brainer.

First, the 29x3 did work with ample clearance. Probably about 5mm. Maybe more. Will try to post a picture.

Second. Top tube is about 3cm longer on the XL and head tube 2cm lower then the XL fargo. Given my height (6'4") the extra length is actually a bonus. I can cut my 120cm stem down a little. This might not be for everyone but I barely fit on the XL fargo. That said I may keep it flat bar or try a jones bar to start with. Been wanting to try one of those.

The benifits of setting this up with a firestarter fork over my current steel fargo are tremendous. Lighter frame. Shorter chainstay for climbing. Will do 29x3. Superb frame price. Great paint. No rust when it gets scratched.

[Inertiaman]

Top tube is about 3cm longer on the XL and head tube 2cm lower then the XL fargo.

How do you come up with those numbers?
Your current steel Fargo XL has a reach of 391mm and stack of 683mm.
The new 2017 Timberjack XL has a reach of 484mm and stack of 631mm.
That's 9cm longer and 5cm shorter, not 3cm and 2cm.
Normalizing to a common stack height, say 683, the Timberjack effective reach at that stack is about 470mm, still 80mm longer than your Fargo.  

[Britt]

My LBS said, Salsa has already sold out of the timberjacks for 2017.

[mmeiser]

So, it's been a long time. Namely because the timberjack was so hot 2p17 frames sold out before i could snage one, but i finally snagged one when they released some warranty reserve and the results were as awesome as i hopped for. I scred a cuthroat carbon fork to put on it and went with a jones bar and rabbit hole rims for full 29x3. Road it from grand rapids up to traverse city for the iceman. It happened sort of suddenly when i saw it was available so just posting now. The big thing for me is i went single speed. First time in 9 years and first time ever mountain or touring. Will post pics as soon as i get a chance. Posted about 120 or so on my flickr.com/photos/mmeiser2 account.

[mmeiser]

Attached below is a picture.

If you care there are more pics from my first trip on it at https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8DQqqd

Some details.

Have a knard 120tpi on the front, panaracer fat b nimble on the rear. It measure in at about 2.8" though it is advertised as a 29x3" thus it leaves me with very ample tire clearance of about a half inch. More of a happy accident on he narrower width in the rear then a plan. I wanted the fat b nimble for its fast rolling design and the knard for its control up front. I suspect even the knard would fit well on the rear though this frame was only designed for 27.5x3. The front fork is a Salsa Cutthroat fork which of course was designed for 29x3. As mentioned rims are Surly Rabbit Hole. Hubs are XT, standard 135 in the back and thru axle in the front for the Cutthroat carbon fork. They are set up tubeless with some Gorilla tape, Stans and a little bit of Slime to keep the stans from gubbering up to bad.

I think it weighs in at about 25-26lbs without all the crap and pedals on it. Weighed in at 27 with pedals, cages and some other crap on it. Just didn't have a chance to weigh it before the trip.

Drivetrain is an older 9sp era 180mm XT crank, i love it so much i have two, but the other is a 175 for general touring use.  Surly stainless steel 32t chainring and stainless steel chainring bolts. Road a 20t on the trail and switched to an 18t for riding iceman. Have both installed on the freehub body.

Toasted the KMC chain in less then 350 miles as we had rain, sleet, snow or some other form of precipitation daily. Despite constant cleaning the sandy michigan backroads just ate the chain. I will be putting a surly singulator on it and probably a 22t for technical trail biking here in ohio (mohican 100 trail) and snow. Don't know if i will leave the 20 or 18t on. They were more of a cheat since i had so little time to dial in the new build before the trip so i probably will not keep them on.  

I am planning on using the Surly Singulator chain tensioner in the future because it will mean i don't have to tension the chain repeatedly as it stretches. The cantilever dropouts on the Timberjack are great but i had to adjust the chain several times on the trip and even shorten the chain. Keep in mind i am 6'4" / 250 pounds on a good day. It is crazy how much a stretched the chain, even given the bad weather. If anyone has a favorite brand or model of single speed chain for durability let me know. I just used a standard KMC 410 for this trip. I will be trying others as time goes by.

Other stuff.

Brooks cadmium saddle. I absolutely love it. Put it on for the tour but will be taking it off for general everday use and putting on something cheaper. Cadmium will be going back on the ti fargo or whatever bike i am touring on at any given moment until i get a second and /or third. Have a brooks b17 still in use and one older retired one i have stretched out and bent the rails on but while a broken in b17 is technically more comfortable the rails aren't as tough as the cadmium and the leather does not hold up to the constant rain and moisture I find myself in while touring.

Jones bar. Love it. It will be coming off though in favor of a standard straight bar for running singletrack. Instead the jones bar will be going back on my steel fargo or whatever bike i am lff road touring on at the moment until i get a second and/or third one. Prior to the jones bar i had only toured on drop bars. I like the jones bar cockpit. I like its sit up and take in the world stance. I like its medium aggressive singletrack stance and its aero forward stance. I love all the realestate it gives me for a feed bag/water bottle/coffee, lights, gps, etc. Etc. That said i still think i wpuld use a drop bar for on road touring and the jones for singletrack and back road. They don't really overlap in my opinion. Just different types of touring.

[eec]

Attached below is a picture.

If you care there are more pics from my first trip on it at https://flic.kr/s/aHsm8DQqqd

Hi mmeiser,
just perused the pics from your trip. Where is this? The North Country Trail (NCT), Michigan section (UP or LP?)? I live in Ohio so I'm constantly looking for longer trails/trips (severe lack of offroad around me). This would be ideal.

[Autodropltd]

My TJ is serving me well!

[mmeiser]

Hi mmeiser,
just perused the pics from your trip. Where is this? The North Country Trail (NCT), Michigan section (UP or LP?)? I live in Ohio so I'm constantly looking for longer trails/trips (severe lack of offroad around me). This would be ideal.

Sorry for the delayed response. Have not been on in awhile.  I HIGHLY recommend the NCT up through Michigan. I recommend starting either in Grand Rapids as it starts off on the white pine trail and then gravel and dirt roads. If you want to skip that stuff, the singletrack starts in the manistee national forest area.  There is hundreds of miles of awesome gentle rolling singletrack which is wonderfully when riding loaded. Just be sure to obey the rules and go around sections of trail that are closed to cyclists as there can be stiff fines... or worse, cyclists could loose access.  It gets a technical along the manistee river and there will be some stuff that is hard to climb loaded and some stuff that requires a little hike-a-bike, but the section along the manistee is my favorite section. North of the manistee it is beautiful but the back roads get sandy. We had to edit for time to get to the ice man and skipped most of the trail between manistee river and Traverse city instead, just opting for back roads. We will be doing it again in 2018, but we're going to opt for staying on the gravel and dirt back roads in the hopes we can entice more people to join us.

[timberjack]

Hi,
I have one and it's great bike. I highly recommend it.