Anyone using the Wahoo ELEMNT?

[dgjessee]

After 4-5 Garmins going bad on me I swore off Garmin a year ago. For most bikepacking my Suunto Ambit3 does fine (HuRaCaN 300 and TNGA with it). I'm very interested in the Wahoo ELEMNT for longer rides and more detail and just curious if anyone has been using it? I've read not-so-great battery reviews (really just want to get the stated 17 hours). Wondering what the topo looks like, if anyone's loaded long 300+ mile routes, max battery life achieved, etc.

Thanks!

[geekonabike]

As always DCrainmaker is the goto reviewer for GPS units, even if he rarely addresses offroad concerns:  https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/03/wahoo-elemnt-gps-bike-computer-in-depth-review.html
For my money the mapping looks to be severely limited (open street maps only). That said I could care less about turn by turn directions. Just give me a line to follow & scroll the map. So it might work for me if I could try out as I often turn off the topo background maps so as not to accidentally get on a roadway the same color of my track (usually downhill road). 

[dgjessee]

I used my ELEMNT for a 3-day, 270-mile bikepack ride and absolutely LOVED IT! Planning to use it for the 700-mile Kiwi Brevet too. I've been meaning to write a review on my own site. But to summarize....I uploaded the route to RideWithGPS and then added all my cues to the route (so, water on left, turn right, camping, resupply). I did a cue on every major turn or junction. It was super easy to do in RWGPS. Then when I turned the ELEMNT on the route was completely downloaded with cues and all. Easy turn-by-turn navigation, no waypoint filtering for size... it was just awesome. It does the upcoming elevation so I know how long the climb I am on is. It had a couple hiccups with that feature, but 95% of the time it worked beautifully to help me pace my climbs. I loved the LED lights showing turns or straights. I also loved that at night I had no need to keep the backlight on because it would light up every time a turn was approaching and stay on long enough to get through the turn. When I first got the ELEMNT, I was not impressed by the battery life. But it seems to have mellowed a lot. I think it would take perfect conditions (like 70-degrees, no navigation, no LEDs, no backlight) to get the 17 hours, but I rode from about 7AM-9PM and never went below 15-20%. I did plug it into a cache battery at about 20% because I didnt want to risk anything but it doesnt freak out from a USB like Garmin does unless you have a OTG cable. The contrast was awesome. Very easy to see, no glare problems at all. I can see where some people might want more topographic info but simply having the trails from OSM on there was plenty for me. The map is not 100% accurate as it's based on OSM/OCM, but neither is any Garmin or OSM map I have used on a Garmin device. I did get a top-cap mount from K-Edge which made plugging the USB in really easy, so I do recommend that for bikepackers if that line of site works. It is big compared to other units but it really doesnt bother me - I like the size for several reasons. One caveat to the aforementioned routing is that it's very dependent on the app/website you base it off of. So you can have a Strava route show up, but it will only show you a line. This would be much less useful in trail systems. it also doesnt prompt the LEDs. With RWGPS and all the cues, you still have the line on the screen, but you can have it set to say "in 2 miles, bear right on obscure trail." I seriously have no regrets at all about the ELEMNT. It was exactly what I was looking for: a GPS device that was super useful any day of the week (unlike an eTrex) but incredibly functional for bikepacking as well.

[geekonabike]

That Garmin shut off on USB power is one of many issues I have with their cycling computers. Good to hear Wahoo has it dialed. That alone is enough to sell me.
 Also good to know the Open Cycling Maps can also be used for mapping as they have limited topo plus some trails. You can actually add trails if your are willing to untangle the UI (as bad as Garmins). I usually hand draw stuff over the sat pics, but they claim you can add a GPX???
Is it possible/easy to zoom the mapping in & out?  I understand firmware are making regular improvements, are they pretty straight forward? 

[dgjessee]

very easy to zoom the map in and out using the up/down arrows. There is no panning however. Yes, you can update and contribute to OSM all you want. The ELEMNT will automatically update its OSM maps but I have no idea how frequently that happens. You can manage world maps on the ELEMNT too, but I dont know where the data base comes from and to the best of my knowledge it's all non-topo OSM maps. There's absolutely no online interface specifically for the unit. So there's no "Basecamp" type application for lots of detailed editing. But you can link dropbox to the ELEMNT so if you do all your own work on a route in something like Basecamp or Topofusion, you can send the GPX file to dropbox and the ELEMNT will import it through WiFi. You can't plug the ELEMNT into the computer and move any files that way. It's all wireless. So yeah, adding GPX files is very easy, but you just have to figure out your preferred online application (I will be using RWGPS for all my bikepacking in the future). As for firmware, yeah I mean you never really even notice when it does the updates. It will download them whenever it's turned on and in WiFi range.

Actually my only complaint - and it might be my phone's RAM dying - is that when I am using the app to change date fields it sometimes freezes for like 5 seconds (the phone screen), then it's fine. One other minor niggle is just that you're limited on the settings you can change without a phone. So like I usually have auto-pause enabled when I am doing road cycling training rides. But I never use it for mountain biking or bikepacking. When I started the Cohutta Cat 260 I realized I still had it on but I had to take my phone out, open the app, change the setting, then put it away. Really wasnt a huge deal, but a little irritating. Mostly my own fault for not pre-planning better.

[RonK]

I uploaded the route to RideWithGPS and then added all my cues to the route (so, water on left, turn right, camping, resupply). I did a cue on every major turn or junction.

I've been looking for a better navigation device myself, and took a long hard look at the the ELEMNT just this week. It has some very nice features and I can understand your enthusiasm.

I also read through DCRainmaker's review several times as well. It seems pretty clear from his review that the ELEMNT has only rudimentary navigation capabilities, and reading your comments does nothing to make me think otherwise.

There is nothing I would want to do less than edit in cues for every significant point on a 700m route, then ride with my eyes glued to the screen to ensure I don't loose the track, knowing that if I loose the track, the ELEMNT can't recalculate a way to get back on to it.

As an aside, have you checked the Kiwi Brevet web site recently? Due to the major earthquake in November which closed the major state highway and railroad, much of the traffic has been rerouted through roads typically used by the brevet. it's estimated that some roads are carrying 5 times more traffic than before the earthquake. To avoid this traffic there have been route changes and there are likely to be more, the route won't be finalised until just before the event so there may not be much of an opportunity to edit cues into your route.

[dgjessee]

Ray wrote that review last March. Long before the turn-by-turn nav was added (he has one-two other update posts). I disagree on the "rudimentary" navigation. it's far better in my opinion than an eTrex for turn-by-turn directions and at least as good as an Edge. You don't have to add cues if you use RWGPS--it will automatically say "turn right on Smith Road." But if its on a trail or unnamed road in OSM may not catch that it's a new turn. Same exact thing eTrex or Edge would do. I had things on my route that were like "bear right on Moss Creek Trail" which I would have had to create on any unit but it was stupid easy in RWGPS and simply part of my studying the route. As I said, when you approach a turn it flashes at you and the LEDs show you which way to turn as well. It will flash red if you get off-route too. You'll have your eyes glued to the screen far less than on an eTrex (especially) or an Edge. Like I said, I would be riding along at night, no screen on, and then it would flash and beep before a turn, I'd get through the turn, and then it would turn off again until I hit another turn. Again, it matters what service you use and I recommend RWGPS. When you're just following a track on the screen (which is what happens when you create a route in Strava and follow it) it has arrows showing you which way you need to go and a solid line for where you've been. It's no different than following a track on an eTrex. Honestly the biggest difference is the black and white e-ink screen. It doesn't bother me at all but I could see some folks not liking it. Heck, with the recent ELEMNT app update, you can now be out on a ride, get lost, pull out your phone, search for a location using your phone map, and send a new route to your ELEMNT to get you there.

If you're not sure it will meet your needs, write down what you want to do and call Wahoo CS. They are awesome people and will answer all your questions. They all sit around one table in Atlanta, Georgia; you're not calling some center in another country. You can also order it from their website with free shipping, try it for 30 days, and return it for a full refund if you're not happy.

Yeah, I know about the Kiwi Brevet re-route. It also made it 100 miles longer than in the past. I'm not worried about it - I ride in city traffic all the time. It's only about 60 miles of roads that are higher in traffic than usual. In any case, would love the NZ govt to fix the coast road and railway just before we arrive!

[RonK]

They all sit around one table in Atlanta, Georgia; you're not calling some center in another country.

Yes I am. Atlanta, Georgia is half a world away from me.

Yeah, I know about the Kiwi Brevet re-route. It also made it 100 miles longer than in the past. I'm not worried about it - I ride in city traffic all the time. It's only about 60 miles of roads that are higher in traffic than usual. In any case, would love the NZ govt to fix the coast road and railway just before we arrive!

That is not at all likely. The repairs are expected  to take at least a year as I understand it. I suggest you consider the Great Southern Brevet instead. It is actually much nicer scenery in the highlands and lakes districts. Unfortunately I cannot get there until April but I'm going to ride the course anyway.

I went back for another look at the ELEMNT. The Wahoo web site is frustratingly lacking in detail about navigation but I decided to take a chance and order one. Hopefully, rerouting capability will be provided in a future update.

[Demian]

very easy to zoom the map in and out using the up/down arrows. There is no panning however. Yes, you can update and contribute to OSM all you want. The ELEMNT will automatically update its OSM maps but I have no idea how frequently that happens. You can manage world maps on the ELEMNT too, but I dont know where the data base comes from and to the best of my knowledge it's all non-topo OSM maps. There's absolutely no online interface specifically for the unit. So there's no "Basecamp" type application for lots of detailed editing. But you can link dropbox to the ELEMNT so if you do all your own work on a route in something like Basecamp or Topofusion, you can send the GPX file to dropbox and the ELEMNT will import it through WiFi. You can't plug the ELEMNT into the computer and move any files that way. It's all wireless. So yeah, adding GPX files is very easy, but you just have to figure out your preferred online application (I will be using RWGPS for all my bikepacking in the future). As for firmware, yeah I mean you never really even notice when it does the updates. It will download them whenever it's turned on and in WiFi range.

Actually my only complaint - and it might be my phone's RAM dying - is that when I am using the app to change date fields it sometimes freezes for like 5 seconds (the phone screen), then it's fine. One other minor niggle is just that you're limited on the settings you can change without a phone. So like I usually have auto-pause enabled when I am doing road cycling training rides. But I never use it for mountain biking or bikepacking. When I started the Cohutta Cat 260 I realized I still had it on but I had to take my phone out, open the app, change the setting, then put it away. Really wasnt a huge deal, but a little irritating. Mostly my own fault for not pre-planning better.

Pretty intriguing setup - wonder if you'd be willing to elaborate a bit on the process; i.e., how to make the cues from RWGPS show up on the ELMNT, how the apps talk to each other, or if it's more manual?

Also, do you have to bring along the phone? I'd love to jettison that damn thing and not bring it along on my next multi-day, or at least keep it completely off unless needed. I have a power pack that could charge the ELMNT and would be willing to put in the up front work in RWGPS to plan it all out (like it sounds like you have done).

Do you have to use the paid version of RWGPS? Assume so, and happy to do so but might be good info to know. Thanks - informative thread about a cool product.

[dgjessee]

Ha! Touché. I guess I meant they haven't outsourced customer service to someplace around the world from where the company is. I know a lot of the guys at the Wahoo HQ and they are all local folks (except for some development folks in Brisbane actually).

No you don't need the premium RWGPS account. For road routes all you do is import the route into RWGPS and the turn-by-turn directions just happen seamlessly in the GPS unit over wifi. You can choose to add other POIs in RWGPS and that will show up in the routing too.

You do not need the phone for anything except settings. So as long as the settings are how you like them before the trip you'll never need to pull it out. I run a super light 2200mah cache battery off the dynamo during the day and plug the battery into the ELEMNT when it gets around 15%. I leave the phone on airplane mode and use it for music and pictures for days.

Thanks for the advice on KB. I do have the GSB in the back of my mind but part of what I love about bikepacking events is meeting so many great people. It's very hard to pass up a group depart. Olie told me in another thread both were amazing, the GSB maybe a little prettier, but also he said the KB had more interesting singletrack. So for now still planning on KB but I have an RV so really can make last minute changes quite easy.

[RonK]

Yes I am. Atlanta, Georgia is half a world away from me.
That is not at all likely. The repairs are expected  to take at least a year as I understand it. I suggest you consider the Great Southern Brevet instead. It is actually much nicer scenery in the highlands and lakes districts. Unfortunately I cannot get there until April but I'm going to ride the course anyway.

I went back for another look at the ELEMNT. The Wahoo web site is frustratingly lacking in detail about navigation but I decided to take a chance and order one. Hopefully, rerouting capability will be provided in a future update.

I should mention that what I found convincing was the Wahoo ELEMNT Software Updates page, which lists the bug fixes and new functions which have been deployed. It is a comprehensive list and shows a high level of commitment to support and enhance the device.

My ELEMNT has arrived and I must agree the setup was simple. I will use it for the first time tomorrow.