Backpacks or seat bags?

[gdillon]

I have a Talon 11 m/l, but it doesn't fit very well.  If I had to choose, I'd go for the stratos because that built in cover sounds cool.

Mark-- if you want to borrow any bags let me know (or maybe trade for some Geronimo  :  ).

The list:

Wingnut adventure pack-- haven't found a configuration I like yet other than empty, with maybe a jacket and pants
Talon 11-- room for bladder, rain gear, maybe some food.  The separated sleeve for the water bladder is nice.  I think it would fit someone with a smaller frame better.
Camelbak Octane 18x-- pretty sweet for 3l hydration, filter, rain gear, some food.  Actually more comfortable while expanded than all zipped up.  Was my go to pack for everything until it wasn't... funny how things change.
REI Flash 22-- current experiment in gear acquisition.  Has been good for rain gear and other items up to 4-5 pounds.  Not great as a hydration pack.
Sea to summit backpack-- lots of room and almost always my go to for bikepacking "without a pack".  I use it to keep my gear together at the beginning and end of the day, but almost totally useless as a primary backpack.

Still looking for the bag I can wear for 16-18 hours a day and not mind the stress on shoulders, neck, hips, etc. after many days out...

[AZTtripper]

What you need is the blue Osprey Talon 22 that you can pick up when you get here, ha ha.

Seriously tho I have found the Talon to be the most comfortable with a load of any pack I have had.

I don't bother with a rain cover, if I am worried about rain I'll put some stuff in zip lock to keep them dry. Most of the stuff in my pack can get a little wet.

[dream4est]

What you need is the blue Osprey Talon 22 that you can pick up when you get here, ha ha.

Seriously tho I have found the Talon to be the most comfortable with a load of any pack I have had.

I don't bother with a rain cover, if I am worried about rain I'll put some stuff in zip lock to keep them dry. Most of the stuff in my pack can get a little wet.

I cant seem to work with that s/m Talon 22. tried it on in REI. Fits wierd. That sternum strap was too high on me. I already have a rain cover so I am leaning towards Talon 22.

I would make my own X-Pac waterproof pack but damn for the current backpack prices why even bother. I saw the Talon 11 for 66 bucks!

[AZTtripper]

The sternum strap moves up and down abut 3 inches. I had set mine low before you tried it on.

Your welcome to demo mine for 10 days in October. If you like it $75 when we're done. If not I should still be able to get $65 out of it.

[MartinFarrent]

As I wrote in the blog article, I think frames were invented for a different user group: hikers/tourists. Tweaking the principle for a completely different posture (ours) is a questionable idea. Gravity doesn't really support it unless you put most of the weight (meaning most of the space, too) below your waistband, which I find a bit uncomfortable. But you might be lucky and find a frame that works for you.

If you go frameless, you want: a hip belt, a sternum strap, compressibility. You must also make sure your pack doesn't hit your helmet on descents, but that goes for framed packs, too. Then pack accordingly. No frame means that a lot of soft stuff should be in your backpack (sleeping bag, clothes) and cushioning your spine. Harder items can go in the front of the pack.

The Vaude Rock 25 UL works well for me at 340g. Additional features are two external mesh pockets and a lid compartment.

Best,

Martin

[sub-xero]

I think it all depends on the route you want to ride. Frame bags, saddle bags and bike bags in general are preferred if you don't have too difficult terrain. However, if the terrain requires you to work with your body a lot, you won't be able to ride if your bike frame is loaded with bags. Then you have to carry your gear on the back. This makes your bike more agile and allows you to ride very technical trails. In most parts of the USA mountains are wide and biking trails are more sloping, while in the European Alps the terrain often is much more steep and craggy. That's because the Alps had a different formation process than the Rockies.

However, if you carry more than 10 kilos of weight on your back, biking will become more difficult too. Which means, you have to reduce your equipment very thoroughly. I know a lot of mountain bikers who simply have problems carrying more than a small backpack over a longer time. So it also depends on the individual person.

Since I ride mostly in the Alps, I always use backpacks. Depending on the type of tour, my backpack usually weighs between 5 and 10 kilos. I use water-sealed backpacks only, so I don't have to worry about bad weather.

[wunnspeed]

I also live in Germany. As it happens, I did the Grenzstein this past summer. On it, I used my beloved Osprey hydration pack. It worked great but it's basically there for water.

Within three days of finishing that I did an Alpencross with a group of people. They, all German, used the typical Deuter 30 liter pack. I decided to use my SpoK Werks Tramp Stamp seat bag and forego any pack as we were staying in hotels and didn't need to carry much. To me, they all overpacked. Looking back at it, I would say that they all suffered by carrying the weight on their backs whereas I felt quite free. Granted, I was probably in better shape and ride probably 2-3X or more than they. When I do my next Alpencross next summer I'll do it the same way.

You probably need to find out what works for you. Weight on the bike, done properly can lower your center of gravity, badly can be downright dangerous.

[MartinFarrent]

Don't forget that many of those guys don't normally bikepack. Overpacking for what is usually their one multi-day trip of the year is partly due to lack of touring experience and partly the result of not owning any lightweight gear (starting with clothes). I have the bulk of my luggage on my back, including camping gear. The German sites often cite a 7 kilo backpack limit. I carry about four, counting food. The Deuter backpack is heavy in itself, btw.

[DoctorRad]

Several of my riding buddies who do more bikepacking than I do swear by WingNut packs as the best compromise between having a backpack and making it as comfortable as possible.

http://www.wingnutgear.com/

[Slim]

You were asking two separate questions in your original post:
1- why do Euuropean bike packers favor backpacks and American riders bikepacks.
2- what are the pros and cons to each setup.

I think question one is not so important. Except for people who are only using one style out of ignorance, because they simply don't know they have other options.

Question 2:
Backpacks keep your bike light if you have to carry it, and make it easier to get behind the seat.
Bike mounted bags are more comfortable and easier to access on the bike.

If you have a lot of gear you will need both!

I usually prefer a lightish weight Wingnut backpack, handlebar and frame bag. I don't do trips with much bike carrying.

[dream4est]

After a week long ride in AZ, I would say IMO Osprey Talon packs are the by far the most comfortable pack I have ever used. I have not tried Wingnut but have used a variety of other packs over the years. I stuffed the Talon 11 m/l with 3 liters of water, lots of food, bike gear, a 16oz slime bottle, etc. So much stuff I could barely zip it and it felt heavy picking it up. As much or more than I fit in the cheap REI Flash 18 or Dakine Nomad I had been using.

Well the Talon 11 not only holds more than it looks like it will, one cant seem to make it heavy enough to make it feel bad on the shoulders (short of stuffing a brick in it). The pack seems to keep all the weight on the hips, or at least more of it than other packs I have used. I only "felt" the pack after 5 days and thats when I added extra water and Slime. Still the pack felt good on my back.

I was trying to go no backpack in singletrack events. In '13 CTR the bike felt too heavy this way- the only way to race no backpack in singletrack events is to ditch nearly all heavy or bulky gear (like Jesse Jakomait). I should have tried an Osprey sooner as now I see why people ride these events with stuffed Osprey packs.

If you have not tried a Talon pack, you have to demo one overnight. I am glad I did.

[Gimmearaise]

I personally want as little on my back as possible.

[gdillon]

If you have not tried a Talon pack, you have to demo one overnight. I am glad I did.

Nice! Glad that worked out for you.  I saw at Wilderness Exchange last week they were selling Talon 11s for like $45!

Recently, I've been taking a different approach than no backpack, which is to put everything for a day ride in a backpack and everything for an overnight on the bike.  It makes for a remarkably light bikepacking rig for technical singletrack and lots of hike-a-bike.  Sounds like I need to venture south this winter.