Backpacks or seat bags?

[MartinFarrent]

Living in Germany and studying the local forums, I see a blatant difference in attitudes to backpacks on the two sides of the Atlantic. Bikepackers in the US overwhelmingly favour large seat bags and minimal back loads, whereas riders in continental Europe say that weight ought to be on your back for trails - especially when crossing the Alps.

Personally, I have always preferred the European approach... and still do, but some recent troubles led me to look into the issue more closely. I have attempted to explain my conclusions in a blog article and would welcome opinions:

http://tours.farrent.de/?p=1275

Best,

Martin

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

IMO there is no one bikepacking set up to rule them all.
Different trails require different gear.
I have both and pack accordingly.

[MartinFarrent]

Yeah, sure... you're right.

But the only kind of trails I ever ride here in Europe are those with plenty of steep ups and downs - virtually nothing else exists in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, France etc. Long ups and long downs in the Alps... and shorter ones elsewhere.

My main point (in the blog) is that acceptable backpack weight is highly dependent on your bike's geometry and your saddle. If both suit you perfectly, you can carry a lot more on your back without suffering... a whole lot more. A set-up that seems more or less okay on day trips can suck seriously when you're wearing a heavy pack. I think many people then attribute this to the weight on their backs, rather than the bike's configuration. They often conclude that backpacks are only suitable for lightish items.

[juanesunpescado]

I find that packs keep the weight too high up as well as on my taint. This is all bad.

I don't agree that having the weight on your body provides any advantage in handling on technical trails. On the contrary I find I feel top heavy.

-tj

[Michael_S]

I think this is more rider preference than bike geometry or terrain related.  There are people who prefer frame bags, some ride with panniers, a backpack or even steel baskets wired to a front rack. http://www.flickr.com/photos/bikenoir/9296447521/#   Kind of depends on your riding style,  and what kind of equipment you carry.  

I hate having things on my back, so I never use a backpack on any ride, everything is strapped to my bike.  I learned to ride without a dropper post so the seat never moves.  Here in California we certainly have steep trails. My bikes all have slacker seat angles and setback posts so I'm already back which helps with seated descending and I can still scoot back with a rear seat bag.  

 

[mathieu]

Typical differences between Alps/Pyrenees and US mountain regions:
- Europe is more densily populated : you find services (e.g. food, liquids) much closer, usually every day.
- European mountains have plenty streams of running water; US mountains are mostly semi-deserts.
- European mountains are profusely sprinkled with mountain cabins offering lodging and services; in the US you have to camp.
The result is that in the US your bags need more volume and you carry more weight.

Look what European bikers do when they go on the Tour Divide Race!

[MartinFarrent]

I learned to ride without a dropper post so the seat never moves.   

Like many people, I used to dismount and lower the saddle using a quick release for steep and difficult downhills. Then I more or less stopped bothering and left the saddle up. But I knew I was missing out on some fun - I just enjoy some trails more with my saddle lowered, and the Gravity Dropper takes the inconvenience out of the act. I've got a multi-position model, which has another advantage, rarely mentioned: Your highest position can be somewhat higher than with a normal seat post... helps with climbs.

To me, the advantage of having the weight on my back isn't restricted to moving mass backwards when the terrain requires it. There's plenty of occasion to do the opposite on rough trails, too. On a really fun descending trail, your position is always changing.

@mathieu: I always camp, but your other points make sense to me. The exceptions might be places like the Maritime Alps (little water, thinly populated).

[mathieu]

@mathieu: I always camp, but your other points make sense to me. The exceptions might be places like the Maritime Alps (little water, thinly populated).

Even in the Alpes-Maritimes you hardly find a route that doesn't hit upon at least one mountain cabin each day offering food and drinks. I don't believe any biker in Europe carries 3-6 liters of water.

[MartinFarrent]

Yep... 2x 0.75l during the day and and extra 2x 0.5l for camping in the evenings (adding the weight as late as possible).

So 2.5 litres is the short-term maximum I would normally carry.

Snags that can compromise the scheme include the kind of thirst-driving heat wave we experienced everywhere here (including the Alps) in late July. Fortunately, the preceding weeks had been rainy enough, so there was no shortage of natural water supplies in the Haute-Savoie region. But otherwise...

Also a problem not to be sniffed at: Away from the Alps and in more densely populated areas, you might prefer tap water to untreated or even treated water from streams, because pollutants could be chemical rather than biological. So the 2.5 litres actually happen quite regularly to me - for anything up to three hours.

But no... not six. And I rarely carry food supplies for more than two days.

On the other hand, compared to some regions in the US and assuming your trip is longer than a couple of days: You are almost certain to need a tent/tarp, because it will eventually rain. And in the mountains, you always need to pack warmer clothing for riding as well as camping.

P.S. The Alpine hut tourist is an archetype, but camping is becoming more and more popular among bikers (as the German forums indicate).

[Area54]

IMO there is no one bikepacking set up to rule them all.
Different trails require different gear.
I have both and pack accordingly.

Yes, totally agree.

Another option is a small bumbag/fanny pack - Ortlieb make a great waterproof one, ideal for a bidon or two, snacks, bear spray, essential items etc. Great size, not a lot of load on the back or taint, and helps with temp regulation as it doesn't block the radiator (upper part of your back) or affect your venting on jackets etc (as shoulder straps tend to block venting of jackets) bumbag then becomes a neat pillow - might stink like ass, but after a few days your whole body stinks like ass - you don't notice it

[gdillon]

Good blog post.  Each bikepack trip this summer has seen different configurations for me.  One weekend I carried everything on the bike for singletrack and no hike-a-bike while another I moved 3 liters of water, toiletries, and rain gear to my back (more HAB on that one).  In both cases I used a tent, sleeping pad/bag, Katadyn water filter, and lightweight cook kit.  Even with 8-9 pounds off the bike, it was still heavy.

More recently, a group of us did the Vapor Trail, but with no camping.  We rented a cabin half way through the route and the plan was to make 55 miles the first day, sleep in beds, and ride the other 55 miles on Sunday.

As usual, my plan was to go without a backpack and so I loaded up 2 mountain feedbags, a gas tank, the frame bag, a tool roll, and the seat bag with food, rain gear, a leisure pair of shorts and shirt, toiletries, flat kit, and the water filter to make the trip.  I had 2.5 liters of water capacity, but never carried more than 1.5 liters.  The total gear weight was only 4 pounds, the flat kit was 2 pounds, and the bags weighed around 2.5 pounds total.  At the end of the second day, with only a few calories left and a full water bottle, I lifted my bike.  Not light. 

Every one of the 4 people on this trip packed differently.  One guy had every bag imaginable strapped to his bike, plus a backpack.  Another the same, but no backpack.  The third had only feedbags and a gas tank on his bike with a heavier backpack.  And then me.

On the next trip of this nature, I will definitely be going with a backpack.  The points in the blog post are valid for me as well, as bike fit is something super important to get dialed in with or without weight on your back.  When you have to shlep the bike up the sides of mountains you really notice the difference of 10- 12 pounds that often times carries better on the back.

[evdog]

Most of the bikepacking I've done has been xc trails, so I have been fine with handlebar and seat bags.  If the trails I was planning to ride had more techy gnar or steep HAB I might choose to go with the heavier backpack and lighter bike.  I think having a more nimble bike would help on such trails. 

[AZTtripper]

If having a lighter bike helps with tech why do DH bikes weigh so much. To me it seems like the opposite. Weight helps with stability.

Your never going to convince me to put the full load of bikepacking gear on my back. For me it's all about balance and an even distribution of weight. Going lighter is always better and having the weight spread out with some on the bike and some on the back.

Not a fan of going without a backpack either.

[mjr5house]

I have exhaustively studied the subject of riding with a backpack and shared the opinion that it was the best way. That was until I started using a Heart rate monitor. The HRM showed me definitively that when it comes to "my body" the pack increases stress over time. My HR will spike even if I feel fine and will not go back down with reduced effort "active rest". However with the backpack off when my effort exceeds my fitness I can just slow down to recover. I realize this may not be the case for everyone, but I would encourage people to do there own tests to optimize there ride and keep the body stress minimal.

A link to my article on the subject.
http://bikepackinglife.com/bikepacking-tip-1-backpacks-get-heavier-mile-by-mile

[Gimmearaise]

IMO there is no one bikepacking set up to rule them all.
Different trails require different gear.
I have both and pack accordingly.

Agree, my next bikepacking trip will be with no saddle bag and no backpack. I want to try and see if I can avoid back pain, and a long branch off the back of my bike. I may use something small, but it seems when I have a huge pack I stuff it full. NO NEED!

[MartinFarrent]

My HR will spike even if I feel fine and will not go back down with reduced effort "active rest".

This is true of any activity where we exert ourselves beyond a certain agree - another example being when you start a long climb with too much intensity. Overdo it, and the only way to recover is by getting off the bike and resting. Question is: Why is weight on your back causing the effect when they same weight on the bike isn't? Going by feel, I don't think the problem applies to me. So there's possibly something individual there. Could it even be related to the thoughts I explore in my blog article? Too much exertion in an attempt to compensate for a less than perfect fit, somewhere?

[gdillon]

Agree, my next bikepacking trip will be with no saddle bag and no backpack.

I've made this happen before on a hardtail with frame bag, CDW medium bar bag, and some mountain feedbags.  Lost that bag and now have a Revelate large sweet roll.  Super volume!  I've packed it with all camping items AND a backpack.

The fun is optimizing your setup to the terrain.  I've found with a pack I do prefer a maximum of 10 pounds or so:  3L water, filter, rain gear, maybe a pound of food.

If having a lighter bike helps with tech why do DH bikes weigh so much. To me it seems like the opposite. Weight helps with stability.

Your never going to convince me to put the full load of bikepacking gear on my back. For me it's all about balance and an even distribution of weight. Going lighter is always better and having the weight spread out with some on the bike and some on the back.

Not a fan of going without a backpack either.

I agree with the ride quality of a well balanced weighted bike, sometimes I think it's better than a day-ride bike.   

But, if I had to choose between seat bag or bar bag only, for sure I'd put the weight in the front.    Brings up suspension fork complications, though.

[dream4est]

I have done just about every way mentioned here. My .02?

Well they only time I seem to like any setup is when it is light. Backpacks that are too heavy suck, as do bikes. So unless you ride a superlight bike and risk failure, the average backpacking bike, especially FS, is already a bit stocky with heavy tires, etc. And unless you are not human, the average person stuffs way too much in the backpack by nature.

So how do you find a compromise? I dont know either. After this last CTR, with no backpack, I have found that when leaving a resupply point, or the start, I suffered (HAB was hell with a 50+ lb sled). When approaching a resupply point, I was way faster. I was happier to not only have no weight on back and less sweat, but to not have to constantly take pack on and off. However I feel I was overall a little slower without a pack but felt a little better physically.

So what am gonna do now? Well I guess the key to all this is carry nothing. Drop nearly all gear. Day rider with a few extras. Always nearly out of water. Maybe thats the key. I always have way too much stuff anyway. Even when I think I dont I end up heavy. Too many batteries. Too much food and water. Etc. Etc. Redundant stuff. Need to toughen up and not take comfort items. Ride all night nap in warmer hours. Drink extra at water stops. Eat more in town.

[gdillon]

Ha ha, now that's the spirit!  Long hours= less comfort items needed.  Most of my bikepacking this summer has been 12 hour days max, hence the stove, tent, and extra crap like chairs and flip flops.

For the Vapor Trail ride this year, I did exactly the "day ride with a few extras", but I would not have been able to stop moving, much less sleep outdoors.  With a sleeping bag and a bivy, I could have made the night no problem, just not comfortable.  22 more ounces for that= yes.  But then the pad, a wool base layer, a stove, more batteries, first aid... yes, it all adds up.

Many of the extra gas tank and feeder bags add some weight to your setup for the sake of comfort and convenience.  A 1 pound backpack can save a pound of bags on the bike but I hear you on the 50+ lb. bike being hard as hell to push up steep hills.  1.5 L water,  filtration, food, tools, and rain gear had my bike at 40+ pounds. 

[dream4est]

So- If it is a backpack which one of these two is the best choice: Osprey Talon 22 in m/l or Stratos 24 in medium?

The talon 22 m/l is about 2lbs if u add a rain cover.

The stratos 24 is 2.5lbs in med. with rain cover incl.

Both are 75 bucks or so in certain sizes and colors on Amazon right now. Some in the 90 range. Both retail for 100 so good deals. Dont buy them all, just tell me which one to get, wait until I buy one, then buy them all

Thanks