bikepacking with flat pedals/shoes

[Mountaindavis]

I love to do routes that are a bit technical and I love flat pedals.  Not a debate on pedals--I use both clipless and flat--that said, I am using flat pedals on the Colorado trail this year although my current 5.10 shoes absorb water and are totally unsuitable.  Does anyone have a suggestion on a flat bottom, sticky rubber, flat pedal shoe that is light and doesn't absorb too much water?

[sherpaxc]

Would something like this work for you?
http://www.rei.com/product/803477

I'm interested in running flats as well but I've never done it on the mountain bike.  I need to practice it to see if it would work for me. 

[Mountaindavis]

Not really--The whole deal running flats, and the second you try this you will fully understand, is to run a shoe with a flat sole and sticky rubber like the 5.10 rubber such as their Freeride models.  The cleats/pegs on flat pedals sink into the sticky rubber and the "attachment" you get with the pedal is unbelievable compared to other shoes.  I have tried my approach shoes and they work great but they are a little soft in the sole for long rides, so something with a moderately stiff sole would be ideal.

[sherpaxc]

So how does that work out for hike a bike stuff?  I mean, you'd need some type of grip on the shoes right?

[rperks]

Have you thought about a pair of keens? either the open oness or the covered leather?  I use both on and off the trail.  The covered oned are primarily for the winter, open for the other 3 months.

[Mountaindavis]

Sherpaxc--the soles are sticky climbing rubber so they are awesome for hike-a-bike except when it is muddy and then the SUCK but most things suck when it is muddy although cleated shoes suck less.  Flats with 5.10 rubber 90% of the time rock--in Moab, it is the best combination I could dream of.

rperks--I have looked at Keen but they are mostly SPD compatible and don't have the sole that really works for flats.  They do have a model or two that I have seen, but I have not tried them on.  It is a good suggestion and I will take a look at their offering.

[rperks]

I am talking about regular old keens nothing fancy and not the SPD ones.  The spd models are cut narrow, may or may not be a good thing for you.  I mostly run these on older Sakae Low Fat pedlas, so the teeth on the pedals play well with the lugs on the shoes.  I have run them on the wider flats with the short metal spike and they did great as well.

[caseygreene]

Because I plan on doing at least 1 trip this summer with multi-day hikes through wilderness areas, ill definitely be riding platforms.

Havent riden them in a few years

What im looking at now is a minimal/barefoot trail shoe that dries out fast such as the New Balance Minimus Trail(230gr):
http://www.newbalance.com/nb-minimus/
Paired up with a lightweight platform pedal with maximum surface area such as the Tioga D-Spyder(310gr): http://www.bikeman.com/PD2514.html

We'll see how it goes

[goldenboy]

If you find a shoe with an upper that you like, you can have it re-soled.  Vibram makes a lot of sole types and you can also ask the shoemaker to add a rigid piece in between to adjust stiffness.  This should run about 40 bucks per shoe.  It sounds expensive, but the customized shoe should be worth it, especially with respect to bike specific shoe costs.

[caseygreene]

ask the shoemaker to add a rigid piece in between to adjust stiffness.

Nice Idea  Hadn't thought of that

[Mountaindavis]

goldenboy--that is a great idea--thanks for the advice on that!

[stumpbumper]

I am new to bikepacking but have been mountain-biking for quite awhile.  Many of the areas I ride are quite technical so I usually wear a pair of 5-10 Impact flats more than clipless.  I find them quite easy to waterproof with products such as Nixwax and Sno-Seal (from Atsko).  It's best to thoroughly dry them out at every opportunity and for that I hang them on a PEET convection dryer that I also use for drying my hunting boots and running shoes.    

The sole of the 5-10 is not as good in mud as the aggressive lugs on a hiking boot but I find them to be surprisingly good in not only mud and snow but slick roots and rocks as well.  I have tried other shoes with flat pedals but keep going back to the 5-10s.  Replace the laces with the bungee-style laces runners use (available in running shoe stores) and they will no longer come untied.      

The flat pedal I have used for years is the 50/50 from Crank Brothers.  Mine have really taken a beating and are still going strong.  They came with short pins in half of the threaded holes and I filled the other half with long pins available from that company.

[stumpbumper]

One other thought.

I am told that the company that makes 5-10 shoes offers a Stealth Rubber sole more standard in shape that can be attached to other types of boots at any shoe repair shop.  I have not looked into that but it might be worth invesigating.   

[MonkeySpacePilot]

Have you looked at some of the other five ten offerings, like the chase, freerunner or daescent, or event the camp 4, which is a bit more hiking oriented but some use for biking as well. All come with stealth rubber soles.

[Mountaindavis]

MonkeySP, yes, I have looked at some of those and I own several others--I am (was?) more of a climber than a biker (although last year was probably the first cross-over where I biked more than climbed 'cause I am lovin it so much) so I have experimented a bit.  The biggest factor on the bike specific shows like the impact and freeride editions are that they have a very flat sole akin to skate shoes--no arch or taper in the middle, and have a more rigid platform.  What this does is 2 thing--it allows maximum contact with the pedals (and their pins) which is very noticable in how well they "adhere" to the pedals (they are much wider throughout their sole) and it also (and more importantly for long hauls, especially wearing a pack) distributes the load over a greater surface area on your foot.  I have the 5.10 guides as well as La Sportiva approach shoes--love them both for short rides, work pretty good, but the longer I am in the saddle, the more I notice the pressure around the arch in the foot which doesn't occur with the Freeride versions.  Those Chase shoes looked promising but nearly 15 oz!  Even heavier dry than mine, but I thought the sole looked pretty good.  I will experiment and look around--if I find something good, I will definitely post back--and please keep the suggestions coming, I would love to dial in this component/system as it will help  a lot for any flat pedal fan...

[DanHickstein]

Hi Mountaindavis,
I like running flat pedals as well, and you are right, there really is nothing to compare to the performance of the 5.10 bike shoes. The grip is just incredible and the stiffness of the sole really helps when you're standing on the pedals for long periods. I wore an earlier version of this 5.10 shoe before I bought the Impact: http://fiveten.com/products/footwear-detail/71-savant   
It's made for water sports (rafting I assume) so it breathes really well and dries in about 15 minutes. However, the sole has too many bumps to be good for biking and it doesn't have the stiffness of bike-specific shoes. I suspect that it would be hard to make a stiff, durable shoes that is much lighter than the current bike shoes that they make. However, I am really surprised that 5.10 hasn't made a version that dries more quickly. The Impacts have fairly good water resistance since they don't have that much mesh on them, but once they are wet they are stay wet for the next week.

I'm hoping that you'll find the perfect solution. Currently, I'm planning to ride the Colorado Trail this summer and just accepting the fact that my feet are going to be wet in my 5.10's.

Dan

[Mountaindavis]

I hear you, Dan, but riding THAT much with wet feet is a receipe for disaster.  Just no two ways about it.  Wet feet=soft skin that breaks too damn easy, at least that is how MY shoes will do it.  Normal perspiration is on the bottom of the foot and we have very tough, thick soles.  Sides of toes, too.  But when your shoe is soaking wet up top by the ankle (the entire rim is thick with water absorbing material, those idiots), your ankle is going to get "crinkly skin" (reference to looking really old after sitting in a hot tub, all crinkly) and it's just not tough. 

I get you, though, and I am going to find a solution.  I don't mind the weight so much (I would love it to be lighter), but that drying thing...

[stumpbumper]

Waterproofing 5.10 Impacts In 10 easy steps  

1. Take money to Home Depot (or hardware store)
2. Buy roll of Gorilla Tape
3. Thoroughly clean and dry 5.10 Impact shoes
4. Cover both side vents with Gorilla Tape (allowing it to overlap leather and sole around vents)
5. Remove laces
6. Cover fabric tongue with Gorilla Tape (making sure it overlaps seam between tongue and side of shoe)
7. Throw away old laces
8. Install new bungee-style laces (won't come untied) available at running shoe stores
9. Apply Snow Seal to All leather
10. Stow small supply of extra Gorilla Tape in backpack

Live happily ever after with 5.10 Impacts  
    

[stumpbumper]

Oops,  I forgot----

Buy a PEET convection boot dryer (completely safe and uses about $20 in electricity if left on year-round but I plug mine in only when needed.  Also dries hiking/hunting boots, running shoes, etc.

After a ride place 5.10 Impacts upside down on PEET dyer and lay wet gloves on soles of shoes.

Next morning 5.10 Impacts and gloves are bone dry (and warm too which is nicer in winter than in summer)

Happy Trails Everyone         

[DanHickstein]

Mountaindavis, I agree, it's a complete disaster to have wet feet for a long ride. Perhaps we should e-mail 5.10 and request a quick-drying version of the impact!

Stumpbumper, that sounds like a good waterproofing technique! I might have to try it with my current pair of 5.10's. I think that multi-day rides would still be problematic since my feet would inevitably get soaked by a rainstorm, botched stream crossing, etc., and the tape might make them even slower to dry out. Unless, of course, they make a miniature boot drier!