Considering a mountain bike...

[WalksOn2Wheels]

What can I say? You guys just make it look so fun! 

So I visited my local shop today for a fender for my commuter road bike. So many shiny new bikes, I couldn't resist asking about mountain bikes. I knew I wanted a 29er because I'm primarily a road guy, and 6'2". Anyhow, they pointed me towards the Hardrock Sport Disc 29er, which they had in my size for 650 bucks. All in all, a good looking bike, but one concern did enter into my mind.

Weight. Yeah, I know, don't be a weight weenie, loose a few pounds yourself, etc. but I would hate to throw down a chunk of change when a little more money might save me 2 or 3 pounds. But I don't know much of anything about mountain bikes, so I thought I'd ask you guys. That and you guys do consider weight more than most people putting in a few weekend miles.

So do you think I could find something lighter/better for a couple of hundred bucks more? What is a reasonable weight for a entry to mid-level mountain bike? Is this a pretty sweet entry level package that would provide miles of bikepacking fun? Input, wisdom, experiences?

[paxton coyote]

that would be a good type of introductory mt bike but if it were me I would seriously look at dropping a little extra at first to get a little more bike & at your height you won't go wrong with a 29er. My first mt bike was a 4300 TREK for less than $400 & it got me hooked but wasn't long I wanted more so built up a Surly KM ss for around $1400 & have been riding it for 5 years & have no complaints, occasionally I'll run front suspension but for the most part, rigid. Next week I'm ordering a built up Salsa Fargo, I don't race so weight is the least of my concerns. The sky's the limit when buying a new bike, I think a lot of it depends on how you want to use it.

 I must say I'm rather biased about Surly, Salsa & steel in general, guess I'm old school. I'm 45, 6' 5" & a clydesdale & will NEVER go back to 26" wheels, but others views may differ.

[AZTtripper]

There's no easy answer the $650 will likely be fine but.

And here's where we turn things around.

Say an experienced Mtber wanted to get into road biking and they asked you should I by a $650 bike or should I look at some thing a little more expensive? What would the answer be.

I think it all depends on what your expectations are. Does my hypothetical Mtber turning roadie just wants to road ride or does he want to roll with the big dogs.

Do you want to just try mountain biking or do you think you will want to ride Mtbs as much as you now road ride.

If you think you will want to take up bikepacking or off road touring then a couple of pounds on the bike add up fast.

I really like my steel 29er for all around MTbing and bikepacking.

If your are at all serious I would say that any bike under $1000 will either need a lot of upgrading or replacement sooner then latter.

I have a good friend who has a sweet road bike. He said it took several years and several cheaper bikes until he finally realized that it really was worth putting out big bucks for a better ride. The funny part of the story was that he made the same mistake when he got into Mtbing. Going several years on cheap bikes until finally plopping down some real cash for a nice Ti bike that he has been riding for years now. On the up side that first cheapest Mtb makes a great townie clunker that you can leave in front of a convenience store.   

[WalksOn2Wheels]

I think the biggest problem for me is that I just have no concept of component hierarchy on mountain bikes. I'd be fine with something equivalent to a 105 road group, but I have no idea what that is on a mountain bike. I don't know what cranks are junk and which ones are fine and which ones are probably not noticeably better for my skill level vs. initial cost.

Here's another couple of bikes, the Giant Talon 29er 1 and the Specialized Rockhopper comp 29er. Both are closer to a grand, and presumably have better components, but again I have no idea. I think I may be able to get a hook up on Giant bicycles, which is what made me look initially, but I could also find a used Specialized Rockhopper for significant savings I'd imagine.

[skunkawombat]

Go for the Rockhopper either Comp or even better the Expert.  The Expert has rack mounts, Deore shifters and rear derailleur, Shimano hydraulic discs, and a stiffer Tora fork up front.  Deore would be the equivalent to Tiagra, and SLX would be 105 from Shimano.  The Comp is nice, but no rack mounts, Alivio gears, and a Suntour fork, but it does have slider dropouts if you want to make a singlespeed.  The difference from the Hardrock and the Rockhopper has to do with the frame material also, the Rockhopper  uses a higher quality aluminum (M4) which is stronger and stiffer than the Hardrock (A1).  Experts frame is the SL version, which uses an integrated headset and more manipulated frame feel.  The Rockhopper also has a little different geometry that is a little more aggressive.  I have the Rockhopper SL Single Speed, and the frame feels great, not as good as a Stumpjumper frame, but for the price, amazing.

[nativeson]

get a rigid steel 29er...you'll get more for your money, less maintenance, and can spend the rest of your $$$ on gear, future upgrades or beer.   

[WalksOn2Wheels]

Thanks for that rundown, skunkawombat. I think you've sold me on the Expert. :lol: Now I just have to give plasma for, say, a year. I used to sell off a bunch of stuff when I wanted to buy something new, but then I sold all the stuff I didn't want and now I just have a bunch of stuff I love. Which is good, but hard to part with for anything else. Maybe next semester I can teach another section of the lab I'm doing now and make the money.... Time will tell!

[Slim]

I agree, it's not even so much the weight it's the performance of the the fork and other components that are the reason to getting a better bike.
If you want cheap a rigid singlespeed is a good option, otherwise you are usually looking at at least $1000 for a 'real' MTB.
Minimum requirements:
double wall rims
34 tooth cog on the cassette.
Fork with 32mm stanchions(the upper silver legs of the fork) instead of the skinny, flexy 28 mm ones like on a Rockshocks Dart.
Fork with rebound adjust

Nice:
36 tooth cog on the cassette
rackmounts
outboard bearings on the bottombracket (same as on a roadbike), much longer bearing life than ISIS/octalink etc.
airsprung fork instead of coil sprung, saves weight and allows you to tune for different weights with and without gear.
folding bead tires, lighter
hydraulic brakes with bigger rotors

The Rockhopper expert is a nice bike and good value. It is a good frame worth upgrading. Otherwise you're looking at the limited and there I would still put on a bigger cassette and rotors.

the best bet might be to get a 'minimum' bike soon and then upgrade with some judicious ebay purchases later, otherwise you are typically looking at about $1700.

[DoctorRad]

hydraulic brakes with bigger rotors

Good advice from the others, but there's a viable alternative to hydraulic disc brakes in the form of Avid BB7 cable calipers. Would be an easy swap for other cable-operated discs.

You might also consider 'downgrading' the crank to use an old-school square-taper bottom bracket if you didn't want to go with outboard bearings. The old Shimano UN-51 (or UN-71 if you can find one) BB units last pretty much forever, and you can still get new, NOS or used square taper cranks very readily.

[WalksOn2Wheels]

Just a quick update on this:

Actually went back and test rode the 19 and 21 inch Hardrock Sport Disc models (it was snowing the last time I went). I knew I could "fit" on the 19, but I quickly discovered that my road experience left me feeling cramped on the 19 inch frame. The 21 felt a lot better and climbing was awesome.

For a while, I really dug myself into looking at components and what would be worth it, etc. But honestly, after just getting on one and riding it, the fork is "fine" but the brakes were great, the shifters were plenty good and shifting was really crisp (helps that they have two very good mechanics there). And if they can make it shift well, it should be fine. I'm very good at dialing in derailleurs and once mine are set, they usually don't budge for hundreds and hundreds of miles. If anything, I could probably ride it until I hated the fork, then either upgrade that or sell it and invest in a higher end model. Given the price of a good fork, I'd probably sell and buy the rockhopper and get the better frame as well. But all around, I really, really enjoyed it.

That and it's kind of hard to scrounge up twice as much money for the Rockhopper Expert right now. Maybe after a year of putting the Hardrock through it's paces, I'll be ready to get the Rockhopper, but right now, I could probably start setting money aside and have a bike by summer to get some riding in, maybe even a couple of bikepacking trips!

[phuc1088]

Very Good!!! Yes, you are right!!

[Wozza]

A Hardrock is a great starter bike, you can always upgrade the components as you break them, wear them out or otherwise feel like it. You can always save weight by later on changing the wheelset, seatpost and bars ect - then maybe one day even the frame to a Stumpy?

The main thing is that the bike certainly has room to grow with you and I wouldn't spend too much on a first MTB until you have ridden a bit and know what you like.

[OscarKiek]

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