freestanding tent VS not-so freestanding tent

[ArisaemaDracontium]

I'm curious if people have any experience with / opinions on the values of a freestanding tent vs a non-freestanding tent. For the last 12-15 years I/we have been using an old The North Face Slickrock tent. But its old now and really starting to fall apart, so we're shopping for a new one. It's "package" weight is 5 pounds 3 oz.

We're considering the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL2 and the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL2.

The Copper Spur is freestanding has a lot of space, especially vertically, great venting, 2 doors and 2 relatively large vestibules. Would stand on its own without stakes for dry weather, or needing a minimum of 2 stakes for wet weather. Its packaged weight is 3 lbs 7 oz.

The Fly Creek is a guyed out tent, so even if its dry I think it would need 4 stakes just to give us all the floor space, and probably 8 stakes as a minimum if it was rainy. Its a bit cramped inside, if 2 people wanted to sit up at the same time they would definitely have limited position options and have to have their back up against the wall of the tent. Just one door and one vestibule, but probably about as much vestibule space as our current tent. Package weight is only 2 lbs 10 oz!

The Copper Spur does save at least 1.5 pounds over our current set-up, plus its a lot more space inside and bigger vestibules than our current tent.

But the weight weenie in me really wants to like the Fly Creek. Cutting our current shelter weight in half would be awesome. Truth is, it would probably just be me in there half of the time. My wife and I are pretty friendly so to speak, but I can still see the tight space being an issue in the morning when she is grumpy. My biggest concern though with the Fly creek is its need to be staked out. Its not uncommon for us to be camping someplace you can't effectively get stakes in the ground, I mean sometimes you can find a spot for a couple but having to put 6-8 in the ground might be a challenge. Sure, you can tie them off to bikes or rocks or trees, but... well, this is what I'm asking, I don't know how well that would work?

Can anyone give me some advice about using a non-freestanding tent in real world conditions?

[Flounder]

When I think of some of the best tents of all time, many if not most, are non-free standing. Working in the outdoor retail industry, it's interesting that in most cases, the more "expert" buyers don't place nearly as much emphasis on free standing vs non as do the novice backcountry users.

Most modern tents, like even the Copper Spur, really do require stakes to get the maximum floor space. Plus, there's the old argument of needing stakes anyway for the tent to do what a tent is designed to do - thwart weather events. You have to have stakes for the vestibule and fly anyway.

[jgolden]

I have the copper spur 2 and I really like it.  So far, I've only used it for backpacking and there were 2 adult males sleeping in it.
Before the purchase I went back and forth and the reason I bought the Copper Spur is because the Fly Creek was sold out everywhere. 
But.....I'm very happy with the purchase and I don't think 2 adults would fit very well in the Fly Creek 2 without being squashed.
Also, you can use the Copper spur with footprint, tent poles and fly only (leaving the actual tent at home.)  This lowers the overall weight by over 1/2 pound.

[Aslan]

I have two seasons on the Fly Creek UL2 and I have to say that I am impressed with this tent.  Six stakes is all you need.  My packed weight is 2lbs 2oz.  That is pretty impressive for two person tent.  Since I usually go with my wife or a friend, that is lighter than two bivies and much more comfortable.  That said, it is a minimalist tent.  Space is tight. You have to stake it to get the space and even then it is none too roomy.  It is only two sleeping pads wide.  With my wife it is fine.  With my buddy, one of us often sleeps under the stars if the weather and bugs permit.  By your self it is a palace compared to a bivy. So think about weight and think about space and decide what is more important to you.

[Flounder]

Just as another idea, I use a Nemo GoGo LE. I consider it a giant bivy sack or a really small tent. Either way, it's a 2.4 pound system that's super versatile, extremely durable, pitches in about 90 seconds and comfy as can be. Just another option.

[ArisaemaDracontium]

So for those of you with the Fly Creek and other non-freestanding tents, do you ever have trouble trying to find enough points to tie down to?

[offroute]

I think you can make due for a night in worst case by guying to your bikes, rocks, bushes, logs, ________ <-- insert creative solution. If you have weather in the forecast, stop at a spot with decent staking/guying potential and, ideally, some natural shelter. If it looks clear, it doesn't so much matter if you just use your tent, fly, etc. as an emergency shelter for the unexpected nighttime shower. It sounds like your old lady might get pissed, though  

[ArisaemaDracontium]

Yeah, outvoted by my better half! We're going to stick with the free-standing Copper Spur.

On a related note, does anyone know if you camp in Death Valley in the spring and don't bring a tent, do the scorpions sneak into your sleeping bag and sting you?

[sneakerpimp]

Keep us posted on your tent purchase! I'm am also in the market for a new tent.Scorpions in Death valley??? It's way to hot out there for anything to live!!
Steveo

[Vik]

Can anyone give me some advice about using a non-freestanding tent in real world conditions?

I've got a Big Agnes Seedhouse SL2. In theory it's freestanding, but only without the fly on as a bug house. If you put the fly on and don't guy it out the tent becomes a sauna with no ventilation.

I don't think having a non-freestanding tent is a problem in most places. If the ground is soft pegs are dead easy to install and if it's rocky you usually have rocks/bikes or something else to secure the tent to. I toured with a friend who had a simple 1 pole hoop tent that needed to be attached to something to stand properly. She never had an issue putting her tent up and it wasn't a noticeably longer process than my Seedhouse tent without the fly.

When I buy my next tent freestanding isn't something that's at the top of my list...weight/packability vs. living space is.

safe riding,

Vik
www.thelazyrando.com

[ImAFred]

Scorpions abound in DV...it's never too hot for those lil guys. Cold messes with em not heat. Climbing into your bag hmmmm doubt it but it is a real possibility. I have them at my abode and they find they're way into all kinds of peculiar places. :eek:

[cackalak]

I've got an older Kelty non-freestanding tent that I've used for years in various places.  Never had a problem setting up the tent.  For my ultralight gear, it will always be non-freestanding for lighter weight.  My next tent will probably be a Tarptent.

[ezdoesit]

just remember to stake down your tent it doesn't matter if it's free standing or not if you don't and turn your back on the tent or go off to get some water you may come back and find your tent has blown away.
Stake it down no matter what.