New to bikepacking, I have questions

[Veetack]

First, allow me to say hello and introduce myself. I'm John, I'm 30 and I live in Knoxville, TN. I'm a pretty avid long distance hiker, and I absolutely love throwing a pack on my back and hitting the trail. About a year ago, I watched the movie "Ride the Divide" for the first time (I pretty much watch it and "Reveal the Path" on repeat right now) and it sparked my interest in bikepacking and mountain biking in general. I gave it time, to see if the desire to get on two wheels would pass, and it has not. As a result, I'm about to purchase my first "real" bike and hit the trail (I've owned plenty of mountain bikes, but they were brands like Huffy and Next). Currently, I'm visiting my mother in Naples, FL and I'm considering a 100+ mile day trip into the Everglades just to gauge my attainable daily mileage. I can hike 25+ miles a day with relative ease, and I'm hoping that translates well into triple digit days on a bike. My ultimate goal is a qualifying time in an ITT to be labeled as a finisher of the Tour Divide. So here are my questions form those with experience.

1. I don't own a bike yet, and my budget doesn't allow for carbon and lefty forks. I've had my eye on the Cannondale Trail SL4 for a while, and after getting a chance to ride one (albeit it was an XL and I'm only big enough for a M) I'm absolutely in love with it. However, I've never put packs on the bike and I don't know how the weight difference affects the ride. Is this a good bike for my purpose? If not, may I have some suggestions in the under $1k range?

2. I've never used clipless pedals, but I'm well aware of the added power transfer, and it's the first thing I'm going to change on my bike. What are some good pedal/shoe combinations?

3. I hike with a GoLite Quest 50 pack, it's pretty much the pride of my setup, but I'm also aware that a 50L pack is far too big on a bike. I'm considering both a Golite Jam 35 and a Golite Rush 20. I'm sold on their products, and I have several of them in my hiking setup. Any suggestions for what I put on my back?

4. Where the hell do you get a frame bag? I can find panniers, handlebar bags, seat bags, and cargo racks, but there's not a full frame bag to be found... WTF?

5. What's your total water and food carry capacity? When I hike, I carry a 3 liter bladder, but I usually only fill it to 1.5, and that will take me 8-15 miles, depending on temperature. I don't carry more than 5 days worth of food, which is oatmeal, clif bars, instant mashed potatoes, gatorade, Spam, and pouch chicken. I eat between 1.5-2 pounds of food a day. I use an alcohol stove, but I'm seriously considering changing to a Jetboil Ti because total weight of my entire cookset would drop by several ounces.

6. Do hikers transition well into bikepackers?

These seem to be the important questions in my head right now. Like I said, I'm brand new to the idea of bikepacking, but it's grabbed me and just won't let go. Any advice helps.

[evdog]

Great to see you`ve been bitten by the bug!  Here are a few thoughts of mine, lots of others here who can chime in too.  First thought is hiking 25mi is not going to translate into 100+ mile days on the bike immediately.  Riding uses different muscles than hiking, so you will need to work up to it.  When you are starting out your butt won`t be able to stand more than an hour or two on the saddle.  You`ll need to work up to that as well as getting the legs in shape for longer rides.  Also keep in mind that mileage will vary greatly depending on trail type and terrain, elevation and conditions.  But you can certainly get in some shorter overnight shake down rides.  I`d recommend this so you can start to get your gear and setup dialled in.  You say you are on a budget so you will want to be a little innovative about how you set things up initially.  Lots of info on this forum about how to do so on the cheap.  The camping aspect of it isn`t much different than backpacking although you`ll find you have to limit weight more on the bike, as it affects your ability to ride more than it does your ability to walk. 

1. I don`t know anything about that model but i`m sure it will be enough to get you started.  Many people prefer hard tails or even fully rigid bikes for simplicity and because frame bags are easier to find for them.  And many people cobble together bikepack bikes from old frames and setups.  Really, what you want is reliability since it would suck to get stranded far from civilization due to a mechanical.  I`d make sure the brakes are solid and also that you know how to fix basic problems (flat tire, brake adjustments, adjust derailler, etc).  Carry spares for everything that is a common failure (tubes, derailler cable, derailler hanger etc) and know how to replace them.

2.  Lots of people love clipless pedals.  I am not one of them.  I used them for years but prefer flat pedals for most of my riding.  Both have some pros and cons, and it really comes down to personal preference.  One thing is for sure though...when you are starting out with clipless, everyone has crashes on them.  You come to a stop, and either forget to unclip or you`re unable to unclip, and you fall over sideways.  Happens to everyone.  And I wouldn`t want it to happen with a 45lb loaded bike.  My suggestion would be to try out the flat pedals first and see if they work for you.  A few reasons for that: 1) riding a loaded bikepacking bike is harder than an unloaded bike.  You will walk more both on climbs, and when the trail gets technical.  Sometimes you will push for miles up an entire climb. Walking is much harder in most clipless shoes.  2) Riding a loaded bikepack bike is harder on technical and rocky terrain, and being able to take your foot off the pedal and put it back easily will be a huge benefit.  Especially if you are new to clipless (see comment above about crashing).  3) Clipless shoes are not that comfy to wear around camp and you will probably want them off your feet after a long day riding.  You could bring flip flops or if you have flats, your riding shoes will probably be much more comfy - no need for anything else.  4) Cost.  You can use running shoes initially at no additional cost.  Clipless pedals and shoes can run a few hundred for a good setup.  You can always upgrade later if you think it will benefit. 

3.  Your body position is different when biking than it is backpacking and I tend to put heavier stuff on the bike. I don't like having as much weight on my back while riding.  This could mean putting a water reservoir, tools, food, etc in the frame bag.  Stuff I use most frequently goes in my top tube bag where I can get to it easily.  In the end it doesn't really matter where anything goes except what works best for you.  You will figure this out quickly by doing a few shakedown runs.  Some people also prefer having less weight on the bike.  You could always try out your current 50L bag partially loaded just to see how it feels and how much room you actually need.  It would suck to buy a 20L pack and find out its too small.  I find bag capacity is often a bigger limiting factor than weight.  Lots of people use Osprey bags like the Talon 22 for bikepacking.  I have the Manta 30.  It works well and I can add extra side pockets to it for more room. 

4.  There is lots of info on the forum here, as well as under links to "Gear Reviews" and "Personal Setups".  There is also a sticky thread in MTBRs bikepacking subforum that lists many of the manufacturers.  These are mostly small independent bag makers which is why you may not have found them at normal retailers.  Keep in mind not all frame bags will fit all frames, so be sure to check before you buy.  Common setups are to strap your sleeping gear to your handlebar in a stuff sack, have a frame bag, a large seat bag, and a top tube bag or two. You can also attach water bottle cages to the fork legs.  Lots of options, and there are lots of ways to set up your bike on the cheap too.  Forums here have some threads on that, check the DIY forum.

5.  I have only carried food for a 3 day trip without resupply.  I could probably carry food for more than 3 days if I was more economical how I packed it.  I doubt it added to 1.5-2lbs a day.  I generally carry instant oatmeal, dried fruit, granola bars, dehydrated backpacker meals, instant potatos, jerky and instant pudding.  Water was not an issue as I could refill from streams along the way (I use Steripen), but I can carry 100oz in my pack and 50more in my frame bag.  I only need to heat water for this food so I only carry a soda can alcohol stove and Ti mug, very light.  When packing you need to consider volume as well as weight, since you have limited space in your bike backs and pack.  A few extra ounces isn't a big deal so consider how much room each setup would take up.  Again, I'd try a shakedown run with your current setup first and see how it fits in.  If you don't need to upgrade your stove that is money you can put to other gear.

6.  Should transition well, since they are similar except for how you get there.  Youll want to get in some good time on the bike unloaded to get used to it, especially if your trails are rocky or technical.  It only gets harder when you add a bunch of weight to the bike. 

Most importantly, have fun!  Biking allows you to put trips together that you could never do on foot.

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

Wow evdog your answer should be a sticky. Great advice thanks so much for really summing up how it all goes together.
Veetack welcome to the forum. I'm a backpacker that converted to bikepacking about 4 years ago and really have enjoyed
the conversion. If the trail is not too technical I can easily cover 3 times the distance. 

[Veetack]

I definitely understand how difficult a triple digit day is now. I did 80 miles through the Everglades yesterday in about 6 hours. There was no load on the bike, just what I had on my back, which was water and snacks. I was on a Cannondale Adventure, which I have rented for the duration of my stay here in South Florida. It's a road/comfort bike, but I pushed it to its limit, as about 30 miles of the trip was dirt, and several miles were quite rough. I had to ride over softball sized stones and through 10-15 inch deep water in several places. By the time I hit mile 70, I was absolutely gassed. I partly attribute that to my mismanagement of calorie intake, as I didn't want to stop. However, when I get back to Tennessee and long climbs come into play (the Everglades are FLAT) my pace and energy consumption are gonna change greatly. While I'll be on the proper equipment, I see it taking a bit of training to hit the century mark consistently.

[mmeiser]

Great thread.

Some further random thoughts.

Can't recommend shakedown overnighters enough. Leave stuff at home, experiment, have fun knowing the penalty is low if you don't have something you need. You might google up on the s24o meme. That's sub-24-hour. Pick a destination 25-70 miles away to camp, leave out your back door and be back at the same time or earlier the next day.

Also google up on the microadventure meme for inspiration. It's all about finding adventure out your back door.

Forget about a full mainframe bag for a wee bit. They must be matched specifically with the bike.

First thing i would do is buy a $20-25 Event waterproof stuff sack. Put all your bulkiest gear in it that you don't need quick access to during the day including tent, tarp, bivy, hammock, sleeping bag, etc. Compress it and mount it under the handlebar with some velcro straps or web belts. I like to use an aerobar to step it off the handlebar, but there are plenty of other techniques to secure it. You'll have to experiment and research.

Next i would get another Event stuff sack, small, and put stuff like clothes, secondary food, spare tubes, tool kit and stuff you're not likely to need during the day in it, put the bulkiest and lightest stuff like the clothes near the bottom and the heaviest near the top. Compress it, roll the top down tight then wrap the buckle twice around your seatpost and buckle it. Bag should now be hanging off your bikes seatpost by the buckles from the dry bag. Next get a velcro strap or web belt and strap that sucker up tight to the seat rails of your bike saddle. Use another strap if necessary. May take some experimentation but this is a great improvised super twinkie seat bag. You can order a Revelate super twinkie seat bag one from most bike shops through the distributor QBP but it'll cost you $120-140 if they are even in stock. I'd put that high on my gear list, but i wouldn't sit around waiting for it. The $25 event stuff sack trick works superbly once you master it.

If you do these things you'll have removed 60-90% of the stuff from your back. You'll ride cooler and more stable.

You may also be able to find a gas tank style or bento style stem bag at your local bike shop. Bigger the better. Great for quick access stuff like food supplements.
Also available are top tube bags like the popular Jandd frame bag. These universally sized smaller/ partial frame bags will work on just about any bike and should still leave space fora couple water bottles.

These things are a great place to start.

Will try to post a reference picture for that seat bag technique.

[jbphilly]

Frame packs are, as people have said, the trickiest piece of gear because they have to match your bike exactly. Unless you're riding a Surly Ogre, Troll, 1x1, Karate Monkey, or Pugsley, or Salsa Mukluk, in which case Revelate makes frame packs that fit all those bikes - but those cost as much or more than a custom bag, anyway. Other than that, you can get a quite cheap handlebar roll (I have the Sling from Revelate, which is like 30 bucks, plus a dry sack to keep the stuff in) and then a saddlebag is helpful. I hate carrying a backpack, so mine exists just in case I need to carry extra water or supplies or something. Adding water bottles to your fork and top of the stem is helpful too.

[Veetack]

I'm really a bladder guy, but I've been working out some ideas as to how I can carry only my Golite Rush 10 on my back. That should hold my water, cookset, a rain jacket and some snacks. Everything else I need will fit easily on the bike. I may have to buy larger stuffsacks than I currently have, but I don't see additional weight on my bike being more that 7 or 8 pounds, 10 or 12 with food. Everyone has posted great advice, and I really appreciate it. I really can't wait to buy my bike so I can get started.

[egear]

I to am a hiker and every suggestion here is a valid one.  I really don't see much transition from hiking to biking except those already mentioned here by others.  That said the endurance side of riding with packs can be more significant then hiking with a large pack  Walking you move at a fairly consistent pace.  This is not always the case with bike backpacking.  Grinding up a hill on a trail is much more "energy" sapping then walking up the same trail.  I also find that my shoulders are a bit stiff/sore after a day of trail riding with gear. Controlling a loaded bike is much more strenuous then walking with a pack.  Thats about it and I wouldn't go back to regular everyday riding for anything.  Enjoy, take your time and day long shakedown rides are always worth their weight in gold or brass or something.  welcome aboard.