I'm going to take a wild guess that Matthew does not want to be paid to handle all the hassles - he wants people to stop creating hassles.  If you break the rules, call yourself on it and be done with it.  Many riders did that this year and that's great!  "I screwed up and now I'm touring."  If you inadvertantly break a rule and Matthew talks to you about it, do not lie or rationalize.  If you are faced with a situation and you wonder whether what you are going to do is "legal". err on the side of caution and don't do it.

This sort of self-regulating behavior would be a lot more valuable to Matthew than almost any amount of money, IMO.

No truer words have been posted about the whole endless rules debate. Thanks!

And the trailside delivery of pizza? If it's within the normal delivery zone of the pizzeria, doesn't seem any more of a violation than picking it up in person. Or does it...?
Calling ahead sure would have been nice for me back in 2012, when I rolled into Silverton around midnight. I went past the only food-serving bar right as they were locking the door. Dinner that night was stale popcorn and beer at the only other bar still open...

From the CTR rule FAQ: "Using a mobile phone to call ahead for any services along the route is the same as pre-arranged support, and as such, is strictly forbidden."

Eating stale popcorn and beer is better than eating nothing!

You do realize this thread is a year old, right?

Looks like a spammer to me. They often revive old threads to get their post count up before posting a bunch of spam.

I took painkillers for knee and foot pain. Joint pain, not muscle pain. I could definitely feel it weighing on my stomach. After a few days it passed and everything returned to normal. I also got to listen to This American Life talk about how acetaminophen kills you, even though it's better for your stomach. Well shit.

No pain, no gain.

OK, maybe not. But with IB and acetaminophen on the bad list, about all that's left is to embrace the pain in hopes that it can be mastered. Now, if only I could figure out exactly how to do that...

Leaving grants
Racing off the front of the Mid pack
Do t know if I ca. Hold all them off
But I am trying my best

Go Mark, go! You are a machine!

Sorry to some off sounding all self-righteous, just bummed at the occurrence rate, which is higher than I expect from the population of riders involved.

Yeah, I'm always bummed when I hear/see/read about the sort of crap that people find acceptable out there. You'll probably receive a bunch of flak from people who feel entitled to bring the race down to their level, and they will rationalize all sorts of murky behavior.

Those who care about the rules and ethics of this sport, and who aren't afraid to speak out, are kind of like bilge pumps in a leaky old boat. There's no way to stop the leaks--but it's better to keep pumping than to let it sink.

The race will evolve and I hope it finds a way to be inclusive of different categories of riders.

I hope that you're wrong, Ann. It is important that there are events in this world that demand full-on commitment and focus to accomplish. Things that people will attempt knowing that failure isn't just possible, but likely. Finishers, whether fast or slow, deserve the joy of succeeding on their own merits--not because they took an easier path.

Ultra-racing isn't about "inclusiveness." If people want to be included, they need to step up to the challenge--not expect the challenge to step down to them.

Right. Not trying to put the genie back in the bottle. Maybe there's a way to score TD more like golf. Player vs par for course. Handicaps and all 

Eek!!

Back in the day--i say it sort of tongue-in-cheek, b/c did 'BITD' really happen if it wasn't blogged--it used to be a fellow had to search long and hard to know what was the true time to beat for a given challenge b/c those sort of 'results' weren't broadcast. They were more personal. A result can indeed be a personal thing, validated internally, not necessarily by their position in a list.

That works on a small scale. But maybe not so much when there are 70+ competitors? Hard to put the genie back on the bottle once you've posted rules, results, and enforced relegations and disqualifications.

What is the point of "racing for the sake of the experience rather than focusing on the results"? Isn't that called "touring"? And shouldn't we encourage tourists to tour, rather than saying they are racing when they aren't?

I'm a big fan of touring. I'm a tourist myself,  and plan to tour the Divide next summer. I'm not denigrating touring at all. But it's not the same thing as racing. If you are racing, you are by definition trying to minimize your time.

Racing has always seemed pretty black and white to me as well. Go as fast as you can, while strictly adhering to the defined rules and general ethics, so that you can finish with the best possible individual time and comparative placement.

But you've got to have official results and enforced rules--or else times and placements are arbitrary and meaningless. If results can't be trusted or compared, it's no longer a race--it's a tour. Based on what I hear from TD racers, it's becoming a tour (or an unfair race) for a greater number of riders. This is partly a consequence, I think, of having had no official results or rule enforcement for several years. When people start bitching about being disqualified for breaking one of the bedrock rules of the race (ride the entire course), it's obvious that there's a problem.

Why do I care? I'm really looking forward to racing the TD in the future. If I weren't so damn busy starting a new business this year (and wrapping one up last year), I would have already done it. Something to look forward to--which is probably why I'm wasting way too much time on this forum.

The short answer is yes, it matters, and since its all so cut / dry for Toby, I would like to delegate him to handle all the emotion, all the polemics, histrionics, all the communication with non-English speakers, etc., from 100+ riders / collective 300,000 TD miles ridden annually

Sorry, Matthew, for seeming ungrateful for all of the hard work that you put into the TD. I have no doubt that it's a massive effort, with an equally massive emotional burden. I think that everyone appreciates your efforts; I certainly do. Thank you.

..but since its all so cut / dry for Toby...

I never said that anything is "cut / dry." I'm just observing the consequences, both for better and for worse, of not posting official times. It has created some additional weirdness, which seems to be encouraging additional "weak sauce." But maybe it does encourage people to just race for the sake of the experience, rather then focusing on the results--which can be a good thing too. Your statement, "...so, it's complicated" seems to sum up the situation well.

Thanks for posting your thoughts on why the results haven't been posted. I'm happy to hear that you're going to backfill previous years. I hope that you don't receive too much crap for how you do it, because I doubt that everyone will be happy regardless of how it pans out!

Since official results haven't been posted for years (aside from record-setting runs), does any of this really matter? Without posted standings, everyone is in the same boat--regardless of whether they complied or not with the posted rules. As it stands, everyone can claim whatever level of success they desire, and there's nothing to contradict or support them. Finish in 20th place with a six people in front of you who broke XX rules--then declare your 14th place finish. Cut the course and had dinner delivered on the trail, but still want to claim your 30th place finish--then have at it. Without posted results, anything seems to go.

I'm not endorsing this position, but it does seem to be what's occurring by default. Maybe that's ML's intent?

My understanding of a winner is one who has failed repeatedly, but didn't give up. So, Failure isn't so bad. Dust your knees off and give it another go. Life doth move forward!

Nice!

Seems that a lot of people can't handle failure, so they cut corners, whine, and demand recognition equal to those who truly put everything on the line. We can choose to either pander to that sentiment, or to recognize that not everyone is above average and deserving of a participatory blue ribbon. Failure isn't a terrible thing, but denying it is.

Caffeine pills are the same as coffee, just without the hydration or bad breath. I don't use caffeine on ultra races though, because the let-down doesn't make up for the buzz. Not cheating to use it though.

I'm purposefully not reading that Apple message-- I want to be surprised when I see you!\

I did the same thing for my first CTR--and it was such a cool surprise to finally roll into his camp. Discovery is a big part of a good adventure!

Bill Littmann appears to be on his way again after a break at Flagg Ranch. I've been wrong about his status before, but it looks like he's back in the saddle.

Can't wait to hear his story. Glad that he seems to be OK.

But seriously, I have seen these on some frames. It seems like a simple solution. OTOH, that same hole can also be access for water and open air that can still contribute to rusting. I'd think the benefits would outweigh the issues, though.

Needs a little flapper valve. A billion-dollar invention! Send my royalties to my Bermuda account...

I suspect that he's fine. If he were injured, he probably wouldn't have the energy to follow that trail. He could also push 911 on his Spot, but he's not. I'm guessing that he's pushing the "custom" button to tell his family that he knows that he's doing something odd-looking, but that he's OK. It would be a very strange place to get lost--leaving a big road to head off on some singletrack wouldn't be a likely misreading of the cues. The "wandering" isn't out of line with finding a nice place to camp, heading off for a bathroom break, etc. Hopefully someone who knows what he uses his "custom" button for will check in.

We also know that he's not racing--which increases the odds that he's decided to go for a little wilderness detour to enjoy a beautiful evening.

If I lived close by, I might drive out to check on him. But I wouldn't call the authorities without knowing a lot more.