For ultra long events you just want to eat healthy foods that don't give you digestion problems. You need lots of carbs but still some fat and protein (there's plenty of debate on the calorie composition). Everyone is different in what they like to eat. I remember watching Tinker Juarez race a 24 hr race and at night he went into his camper and took a couple of longer breaks to eat some burritos.

For shorter events or events where you can keep the intensity high, you have to think about the most digestible food and that's where products like gels and liquids have a place.

For myself, I won't eat anything solid for a 4 hour or less race. For a 4-12 hour race I might add some bars. Over 12 hours I'll eat more normal foods.

This is just for racing though. For training it all depends on what I can stomach, what is convenient, and the intensity of my ride. Any long mountain bike ride with friends results in some stops and I'll eat a sandwich. My stomach might feel a little full, but I don't care because it's not a race.

I'd eat as much real foods as you can while still maintaining your performance. A heavy diet of maltodextrin, sucrose, dextrose, and other sugars is not the greatest for you even though it's packaged as a "performance" product.

I was using Ergon grips on the ride. I think they're good for reducing pressure on the outside of the palm but don't do a whole lot for wrists. I also like the ritchey foam which dampens vibrations a little better

http://www.ritcheylogic.com/dyn_prod.php?p=38-226-950&k=99205

I will ride with some of these in the spring to see how they work. I road with them on my road bike in the fall and they reminded me when my wrist was bent

http://sixsixone.com/bike/joint-support/pro-wrist-support

I do think padded gloves help a bit, taking away some of the vibrations.

I'm confident for the next year I'll have much less stress in that area. It's really about how to completely heal what has already been done. Thanks for the suggestions

Was the acupuncture focused on the hand and wrist or did it go up the arm or throughout the body?

One personal opinion/theory of mine is that nerve prob in fingers is related to flexibility (or lack thereof) in the shoulders.  Related to this thought, I find that wearing a backpack while riding makes my fingertips go numb much quicker than without a backpack.  Although, first and foremost, from my experience, the more upright position on bike (by just a few degrees) the better for hands.  Even though I fitted to my 29er HT, I'm more stretched out than on my 26"HT, and get way more nerve issues in fingertips from the 29er (always the ring finger tips on both hands).  After several years of trying this and that, I'm in the market for a slightly smaller frame 29er.  Along with doing various shoulder opening stretches and poses - similar to getting the damn hip flexors and IT bands in the legs to loosen up and be flexible after so much life spent in the saddle.

Thanks Mike. I try more shoulder/chest opening exercises. The biking position really pulls the arms forward. But adding a backpack also adds some weight to your upper body that you really feel descending and when you have to hit the brakes. I have noticed that more of the CTR riders are taking weight off their backs and putting it on the bike even though there is so much pushing. I've wondered on the reason for that.

To me I viewed your video as depressing yes! however that's what the CTR is all about, lots of ups and downs. I asked cause you recorded a very impressive time and was curious if you were going at it again, I'm glad you are!

I love the planning, which can involve many tough decisions like down coat or no down coat, and then you get to go out and buy the gear cause you need it. I also end a ride like that and being the competitive type know I can do better. I know without feeling nauseous I can go much faster, but that's easier said than done. Are you doing the ride?

It sounds like a more upright position helped your hands. It's pretty common bike fitting knowledge - to reduce pressure on your hands, raise and shorted the reach. At the time I didn't want to change my cockpit too much and raised the front just 1/2 inch. This year I'll be the guy with the short stem at +6 degrees mounted at the top of the steerer tube. Last year I was the slammed guy.

After riding the CTR last year my smallest and ring finger had some numbness. I realized the aggressive/race position I used put too much weight on my hands over the course of 5 days. I'm about 95% better but obviously want this to be a memory. Does anyone who has had this type of hand trouble - ulnar neuropathy, handlebar palsy - have some good exercises or tips for healing they recommend? I haven't found much luck searching the net.

Depressing? That doesn't look like fun to you? I never threw up, but I felt so sick, especially at that point in time. I was so far bonked but I just couldn't eat. That was the lowest point of the trip for me because it was only about 1pm but the weather was crappy and I hadn't felt good all day. As much as I wanted to be racing, I wanted to make sure I finished. I slept and layed around until 8:30pm. After that I felt good for the last 2.5 days with just a few hours of sleep. Usually I can eat whatever I want when riding at a slow pace, but I became quite sensitive to some foods and had to figure it out along the ride. I was 100% committed to riding the CTR next year within 10 hours of finishing. I've been writing down the things I'll change and what I'll keep the same and will post that pretty soon since that's where my mind is at right now. And for grips, I was using Ergons. I've read that sometimes the nerve problem is in the elbow as well as the hand and wrist.

Anyone got an info on Kurt? Looks like he took a 12 hour stop in Buena Vista? Seems unplanned after a 3-4 hour "nap" the first night. I don't know  him so I have no idea of his intentions/pace for this race/ride.

yup, most people want at least the option of hanging out with others or else they'd just ride ITT. But the unsupported just seem like another option you could do, not the way its gonna be.

but how do people with jobs do this. Does no one else have jobs either? I quit my bike mechanic job in late May in California to take two months to play and transition back to CO but after the CTR it has been serious look for work time. Who gets to take June off except for academics?

Exciting to track Kurts progress out there. Years ago when asking my fellow construction worker about sky diving he said once you do it you'll sell your soul to get back up there. Since then I've resisted that temptation but days before beginning the 2012 mass start I predicted to some friends this experience would be like that. It has certainly consumed my thoughts and basing my life schedule around the various ultra events seems temping.

BTW,
The TDR has updated/acknowledged that forward is okay, in case of severe mechanical etc. AS LONG AS ONE RETURNS TO WHERE ONE LEFT OFF and it isn't prearranged, preplanned or abused.

Exactly, as people discuss what doesn't make sense ideas get considered and change happens. Having the attitude that if you don't like the rules don't race (I'm not bitching, I'm discussing. Does an online forum discussion ever not end in name calling, distortion of opinions, and fights?) doesn't seem in tune with grassroots, for the people racing, and having the attitude that if you don't understand the rules, wait a year (mature) doesn't solve misunderstandings either. You do nothing and next year there's tons of cheaters again (is this a real issue or an online forum issue?) and by in large, I don't think it's a discussion of integrity or moral. When you get ready for the race you focus on gear and logistics of riding your bike. I bet few visited the FAQs as much as me but I still needed clarification so I know I'm not the only one.

God I hope I get that job offer soon. This endurance conversation has no end.

Toby

That line was more of an exercise in utilizing the slippery slope fallacy. I was saying, if you have the attitude that we're out there just to ride, there are a few simple rules, and everything else you can figure out and make the call on since it's not life or death, this is what might happen.

My real feelings, real position on all this, lays hidden. I'm not showing my cards. ahahahaha

No, my feeling is this:
1. Are we riding time trials or racing each other? If we're racing each other then we're checking trackleaders and strategizing based on time gaps. We're riding with people because that's our competition and we want to keep an eye on them. If we're time trialing we don't need to check trackleaders and you don't hang around people except passing by chance. I'm sure with more thought/time I could develop this idea further. It's really a matter of solo versus group ride and using outside info to influence race outcome and pace or just doing your own thing and riding as fast as you can. It doesn't matter whether you check the internet in town or on your phone. This year I would say at the front of the race the TD was more leaning towards people racing each other while the CTR was more leaning towards time trialing.
2. Talking about the race with your friends/family and getting tips is the same as having your buddy bring a cooler. Is this who wants to be a Millionaire lifeline or what? Talking with your friends/family can't be banned because you have to tell your daughter you love her and if you're a big shot business man you have close the deal. Having friends meet on trail just to say hi is the same. Why is it the same? It's a support team. If it's unexpected, you can't control what others do.
3. There will always be some sort of inequity. Some will get drenched in a storm while other miss it. Some have a $10K 23lb full suspension, others have a $1000 five year old bike. Some have the best and lightest gear, others have crappy gear. etc. etc. For any unexpected/random hospitality/offers, accept it if you want. Don't act like an idiot. "Um sir, I'm in this race and the rules say I can't sleep inside but I could accept sleeping on the barn floor". "Okay, I was trying to be nice, you're a freak, just leave." Don't act like you have an arm cut off if you don't. If you want to call ahead and see if they have a hotel room, do so, everyone else can. This to me doesn't create race inequity an more than the inequities that already exist from the start of the race. This is nowhere on the level of having a friend give advice, directions, weather info, placing a cooler, etc. Here we're talking random luck or services publicly available to all. If someone gets killed for 5 hours in a storm but the people in front of them miss it, they deserve to have the driver stop on the side of the road and offer them a place to stay and warm up.
4. Equal for all should be the guiding principal. I raced the Firecracker 50 and at the top of Boreas Pass Rd the guy next to me had his buddy hand him a camelback. I wish I didn't have to carry 2-3lbs of fluid. To eliminate that local advantage is the purpose of all the rules to me. Anything is else is just style.

This isn't a list of race rules that are easy to follow or what I feel is "the right answer", just my opinion, which includes preference on style. The reason we have this discussion is we've chosen to legislate some style while leaving other to interpretation or allowing it. (And because some people feel very strongly one way or the other).

And as for Jarral brakes, I didn't know the outcome of that. I thought he was somehow getting delivery in Eureka.

In the Tour Divide "pre-arranged support" is clearly defined as support arranged BEFORE the race clock starts ticking.  Right after this years races started, folks paused to use their phones to arrange hotel accomodations for the night.  Totally within the rules. 

I have assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that the defenition for pre-arranged was the same for the ctr.  In my mind calling around to shops to find a bike part etc was legit once the race clock was ticking.   

You have to be like Carmelo in this year's Olympics. He was applauded for his quick thinking as he swatted a ball from above the rim. In the NBA there is goaltending. In international rules its not until the ball falls through the hoop and before that anything goes.

Matt if you truly are just trying to get more clarity so you don't unknowingly break rules, hopefully the above answers to those questions clarifies them.  

It is about clarity for me because the purpose of some rules eludes me. There are many people taking a stab at bikepacking racing each year. The self supported format is completely new and rules new. It's easy to read a sentence and think, "did they really mean this?". I guarantee you could ask a rookie racer if they were allowed to use their cell phone to call a shop while in town and they might say "I think so" or "I'm not sure" or "I think the prearranged support thing really has to do with your buddies helping you out or setting things up before the race, otherwise you would just think there would be a cell phone ban".

I think back to the cell phone post I was reading where Scott Morris talks about inequity being solved by the blue dot app. Inequity of material goods will always exist in this country of haves and have nots! I can't afford one right now, but more importantly lets compare the issue of checking trackleaders (to adjust your race strategy) and checking the weather report (deciding whether to go for it or hunker down) on your smartphone to calling a shop in town. One is permitted but frowned on perhaps and the illegal. Since rules aren't just random, they serve a purpose, what is the purpose of each rule? This is where the premise of fairness and equality doesn't seem to explain it. What premise am I missing?

Here's an analogy. If you're good at math or physics, you don't memorize how to solve every type of problem. You understand certain principals and use that to solve many types of problems. If you understand the premise or what the rules are based on. It's easy to know what will be allowed or not allowed from all the 1000s of scenarios that could take place in the field. If there is a disconnect between the rules and the purpose they serve then you have to do some heavy thinking and make your own calls out in the field. This is where my nightmare the morning after finishing the race about hood stitching regulation is particularly telling. I subconsciously felt (at the time I had not given this amount of thought to the issue) this was about memorizing rules rather than understanding the premise on which they were based and applying it.

Anyone have comment on Jarrals brakes issue?

I'm clear on many things, like friends bringing food and stashed coolers, but if the the main premise on which the rules are based is "fair race for all", I could see the rules being very different.

In Leadville I planned (the plan came after day one of the race) to stop at a bike shop because I didn't like the way my fork was working. I didn't have a shop number or know where one was located but then came the flood of what ifs. If I had a smart phone could I use it locate a shop? If I had a shop number could I call when I was say one hour from the shop to ask if they could help me and save time by not having to stop in the shop or locate it if they couldn't? Could I call while I was in town? Could I call from a pay phone? Must I only stop in? What if the bike was fairly wrecked and Leadville didn't have the part? Could I call Buena Vista? If they didn't have the part I know my ride is over. Must I ride to Buena Vista to find this out?

(I never stopped at the shop or located it because I'm impatient and don't like to wait)

If any of the answers to the above is no, how am I giving myself an unfair advantage?

While we're talking about CTR, the TD rules on this issue seem the same.

Listen to this public MTBcast on the same issue http://mtbcast.com/site2/2012/06/10/mtbcast-td12-%E2%80%93-jarral-ryter-called-in-from-eureka/

How can Jarral Legally get brake parts if they aren't commercially available?

Law students go to work

I think that something sublime will be lost if everyone adopts Matt's "whatever works for me" mindset.

To avoid getting a reputation as a maverick rider (and yes I've now said what I need to say) let me summarize my position beginning with the first post.

1. I'm an honest person and when I race I like to follow the rules and be on the same playing field as everyone else. As it is now the rules aren't clear enough for me to follow and I don't enjoy spending time while racing trying to decipher them. I don't have a big investment in what the rules are. I just want it to be easy to to act in "normal ways" when I'm riding.
2. I noticed people who seemed to be braking the rules, but to them either they weren't, or it wasn't a big deal (and really it wasn't changing the race outcome). It seems to be these kinds of people who think this conversation pointless, that we're splitting hairs, and we just need to go out there and ride our bikes since that's what it's all about.
3. If I were to take that attitude, and by the end of the conversation I'm starting to feel that way, I wouldn't worry what anyone else says about me and I'd just race my own race and in the grey areas do what makes sense to me, not what I think the rules should or need to be, but the danger in that is you just start to make your own rules.
4. This is a real topic of discussion, that needs discussion, that has focused more on what the rules should be and I'm saying just lay them out straight for me cause it's bugging me trying to remember or decipher them.

Keep the rules simple.  Enjoy yourself.  Sleep.  Eat.  Ride.  More! (repeat)

and then get relegated for doing something wrong that never even crossed your mind.

I'm obviously coming at this from a different angle than others but I'm not the only one to worry about breaking the rules, you just have to read other blogs of contenders to see this. Although it usually involves missing a short section of trail (which is a clear rule to understand). People riding to post fast time have a fear of it all being messed up in the end by a mistake.

But my next ride/race and those that follow will be different. I won't worry. Who is anyone else to verify or nullify my efforts? I'm riding for myself. Can you hitchhike forward or only backward in the TD if your bike brakes? I don't care! Nearest bike shop makes sense. Put an asterix next to my name. My effort and journey was pure!

(no disrespect to race organizers)

One idea to get people to think about the approach they will take when they race that involves no more written rules would be an extension of the short survey each person fills out to be on trackleaders. This could be 10 of the most contentious issues with a spectrum of either "highly agree" to "highly disagree" or written out options that cover the spectrum. This would gather all racers sentiment as well as serve as a non enforceable, publicly available contract on how you want to race. On grey areas there would be no right answers. If it turns out that you submit an answer that is blatantly a violation of a rule, you'll be notified by auto email some other such method (auto email of answer key after the survey, etc). There could also be room for a participant to write out anything additional they wish to.

Yes, there is thinking about things too much or beating a dead horse. But I just started thinking about this two weeks ago and some readers may have been seeing these threads for 6 months. There is also the approach of just being "cool/layed back" and it was those people who seemed to brake small rules without thinking about them that got me thinking as a first time bikepack racer, hmm, I guess this is how it works.