He's a hiker but non the less.

http://www.prolitegear.com/great_western_loop_skurka.html

I am looking forward to seeing the track for this one that should help with the water and supplies ?.

As for the sleeping system that should do unless we get a really cold early winter storm but even then you should be fine as long as you keep fairly dry.

I can carry 2 100 oz bladders if I have to not sure if I will until we see the track but then they are pretty light when empty. If you need more for one section do you have room in the pack for a liter or 2 of store bought bottles that would be an easy solution.

I've drunk lots of water from hot springs by necessity. As long as it does not smell like sulfur I guess you're ok. but maybe not. I was / am at least!
Minerals are good for you right?

Good point on the sulfur, are minerals good for you yes I should think so at least in moderation.

I have heard of AZT hikers using a t-shirt to prefilter water be for adding tablets I just can't bring myself to travel with out a filter. I like drinking ground water but I really like having it clear of bugs and chemicals.

As to the hotsprings question I have heard that people do drink from hotsprings on purpose I believe it is an Asian thing. When I lived in the Kern River Valley I used to go to the local hotsprings a lot to soak. There were a number of Asian people who came into the area to use the springs also the white trash had their spring and the Asians mostly stuck to the pay one. There was also one that was fenced off the guy had a FS permit and could have run a pay one but chose not to. The reason I heard was that he bottled the water and took it back to LA to sell. This was all second hand so I don't know for sure. One thing I do know about hotsprings is don't put your head under as there is an something that can cause severe illness and even death an amoeba or something like that gets up your nose but I don't think it can hurt you if you digest it.

Just went and check it out at the garim site.

Seems like there are a lot of features that one doesn't need for bikepacking like wireless transfer to other 705's. I just can't imagine a time when I would meet someone out in the field and say here let me send you this great ride.

Features eat up battery life ETrex series are up in the 30 plus hour range more on lithium add the fact that this one only gets 15 hours and since it's rechargeable and now you have to carry the charger.

Looks like a cool unit and might be great as a training tool it seems over kill for basic navigation the ETrex will do everything a standard computer will and for less money the way it looks.   

The only thing I can think of is that maybe the Edge might hold up better in the long run as it is made for bikes. I am on my second Legend but then the first one did last for a couple of years including 800 miles on the AZT as well as several OTB's.

Sedona to the AZT, then to Moab (on the trans Utah?) then on to Durango. Then? Not a good way to loop back but it would be cool to connect several major destinations in one trip.

Jonesy, I am hoping to be at the coconino also it looks like fun, one of these years I need to finish the 300 again as well. Both work as good ways to pick up big sections of the trail as does the Kaibab Monster cross another one I want to do someday.

Maybe we will see you in Flag on Oct. 9th.

I may be doing a thru ride at the end of may

The end of May would be a good time to go from Payson to Utah or vis versa, below there you could do the dirt road route but the ST would be brutal in the heat.

In the late summer of 06 Troy, Blair and Brian"s did a North South trip http://www.juniper-solutions.com/aztrek/ they had to bail off of night riding the remote ST on account of rattle snakes they ran over 6 in one night and found it so hot on the highway the next day they had to bum a ride. Not that they didn't have a good ride in the end just something to think about.

You could possibly do the low country roads if you only rode in the morning and evening but the midday heat will get you and it just doesn't seem good to be out in the back woods when there are lots of snakes out.

Rob

Lots of lookers no takers yet. I would love to join you either time frame but I just don't see it happening as I just have too many irons in the fire so to speak. I never even tried to find partners for my AZT trips finding the right person would be tough. A friend may be doing a multisport trip next spring he wants to hike the wildernesses and have the bike delivered around a whole nother can of worms but it sounds cool. I am hoping to join him on some of the hikes as those are the passages I haven't done.

Good luck with what ever comes of your trip I will look forward to seeing what course you choose and how things come together for you.

AZT reroute!

Not a reroute just another option. As there is no official bike route riders have to come up with their own plan of action as to how to deal with wilderness detours.

As for myself on the two AZT trips I have done I did try to stay as close to the official trail as possible and also try to return the the trail as soon as and as often as possible. And while this has taken me to some awesome places it doesn't appeal to everyone.

There are numerous options along the way some times you can stay on dirt others tend to put us on pavement. While there is no way to do a full AZT trip with out pavement I think most bikepackers will want to avoid it. But staying off pavement and on dirt while at the same time avoiding the wilderness passages can make for a convoluted route.

Obviously we must all make our own choices along the way, and that starts in the planning process. I am glad that I stuck to the trail as much as I could when I did my trips however convoluted the route looked on paper. But it seems like a lot of riders would be more interested in a more straight forward route with good trail and not as concerned with what is officially a hikers route.

In the past I have been against the idea of people calling a dirt road the AZT to me it seemed that if you didn't at least try to ride the single track then you were not doing the AZT but perhaps a dirt road tour close to the trail. Again everyone will have to make their own choices and there are lots of options and the Black Canyon option could be a good one.

I don't see how they could make a cassette that would only work with their derailleurs but when it comes to Shimano I wouldn't put it past them.

I'll ask the LBS guy to email BTI and see what they have to say.

That's a route I've been thinking about too - Flag to Phx via that Coco-ming-Bob Loop thing to the BCT to the maricopa trail via cave creek trails to Pima and Dynamite to...and on and on..........

It definitely looks good on paper.

Great make it what you want it to be I read an article in the Rivendell reader http://www.rivbike.com/
about what they called the S24O sub 24 hour overnight ride. Basically the idea was leave home ride out and spend the night ride home in under 24 hours. Rivendell is more of a roadie commuter shop but the idea works for MTBs as well is should think.

Enjoy.

I don't have a Surly, but it comes standard with a 5 bolt, 58 bcd granny.  I use a Sugino crank and Shimano UN-73 bb, but recommended the Surly to the OP based on weight.

I went and looked at the Surly crank, Mr Whirly looks like a good way to run a 20 tooth with out having to modify/grind. I have a 20 on my Truvativ but it likes to skip when the chain is new and I don't want to grind on it as it looks thin already. I am thinking of going with the Whirly the 58 mm should do the trick though I see Surly doesn't carry a 20 but I did find one from Blackspire with the 5x58.

I'll take a crack at this though it could be as simple as it is what you want it to be but for the sake of clarification.

I'll start with bike camping IMO this would be a camping trip with bikes being some how involved as a means of transportation not going car camping and then doing day rides. Weather you drive to a TH or ride from home the main goal of the trip is a camping location and riding is not the be all end all. I can think of one 3 day bike camping trip I did in CA we drove to a TH did a 4 mile ride down a 4x4 road and made camp near by a creek, hung out did some bouldering we had climbing shoes with us. The next day we did an unloaded ride of about 20 miles out and back and then hung out back at camp. On the last day we rode up the 4x4 road 4 miles back to the car and went home. It was fun but I wouldn't say we set any records. And we didn't ride any single track but if we had it would have been unloaded.

Loaded dirt tour IMO has more of a travel distance goal, more time would likely be spent on the bike trying to get somewhere camp would be just a place to sleep. IMO this could mean bringing more gear to make camp a little more comfy and possibly last longer then 3 days may or may not include single track. In 2004 I did a big ride touring the AZT spent about 2 months working out 3 sections of the trail. First I rode from Mexico to my home in Tucson. Then spent 4 days riding out to a dead end the trail was still under construction. I then had to go back home and get some work done before I could take off for the final leg. The last piece was the biggie all the way from Tucson to Utah with a big detour around a giant ditch. I had a full squish bike with 2 racks 4 panniers lots of camping gear plenty of food and spent a lot of time hanging out at camp sites along the way.

Modern bikepacking again this is just my take on it. But it seams like things have progressed a lot in recent years. Most riders seem to be going rackless and fairly light, there are some great products mostly hand made by two one man companies, using modern lightweight backpacking gear. I would say that if you aren't riding single track then you are not bikepacking very few backpackers go out to hike on roads, unless they are on a through hike ie AZT, ATA, CDT, PCT ect. To me any ride that includes bringing sleeping gear riding on single track would be bikepacking. Weather you spent one night out or 30 the goal for a bikepacker is IMO to ride most of the day make a camp and ride again the next day and so on. With an emphasis on single track and getting out in to places you might not otherwise go.

Ultra racing seems to be a growing part of mountain biking starting with the GDR race then the AZT 300 and CTR. IMO these races are long, long enough that it only make sense to plan on having some sort of sleeping system. While it would be possible to ride with out it, having the gear to stay warm and sleep seems sensible. It would surely be possible to ride the AZT 300 and stay in a hotel room or 3 along the way but it makes more sense to plan on having what you need to sleep. From a safety stand point if nothing else, just in case you ended up at a higher elevation area and just couldn't stay awake any longer you could stay warm and get some sleep. Not sleeping seems to be a big part of it thou if you want to win any of these races you will likely have to go with out much sleep. On this years AZT 300 the winner never stopped for more then 2-3 hours at a time.  

Hope this make sense of it all for you.

  

I ran bb7's for years just recently switched to hydros no problems yet but it does make sense to use cable actuated for big trips.

As for the bigger rotors I bet you could get by with out them bb's have pretty good power when properly adjusted. That's the only down side is you have to do the adjustment manually but it is no biggie.

Cool Thanks

Looks like a good outing any idea on ST to road ratio.

My local LBS guy just saw this as a coming soon item at BTI as a Deore LX level component no price or expected eta yet but it must be getting closer. He signed up to get an e-notice when they come in I will be getting one.

I have one pair of baggies but find them too hot for all but the coldest days. On trips I like to bring a pair of light weight board shorts to put on when not riding.