To add; It looks like we have 2-3 others joining us.

Greetings.

I left Facebook 4-5 months ago. I was on the TD page and had started, along with DP here, a page called "Smart Depart". We are starting a Southbound ITT on Friday, August 20th. All are welcome.

If the border is not open yet, we are planning on proceeding but going border to border.

You are talking of a Banff start? Following the route released for that year's GD?
It's quite an interesting thought

My plan would be to look at it identically to the June 2021 GD route. I'm planning on a real run, going at my best pace.  I just don't wish to risk another 2014, weather wise. Being an Arizonan, the snow, snow pushes and freezing rain for several days literally kicked my ass.

I posted this thinking if enough others felt similarly, it give those folks an option of not just flying up there and starting all alone.  

I've been mulling over a late-August/early-September ITT for a couple of years now. 2021 is probably also my next best time for a Divide ride, if the itch remains. The main potential drawback I can see to a late summer start is wildfire, fire-related road closures and smoke-filled air. 2018 was a terrible summer in that regard. This summer has been notably better so far, but as trends go, wildfire issues will probably worsen in the coming years.

Agreed, the risk of a late monsoon in Colorado and New Mexico is also a coin toss.

Last year David and I watched the weather during these dates and placed our progress daily, based on what we experienced and what we believe we could do in daily milage. We juxtaposed that to the weather and had a pretty clean run, weather wise.

Our plan is also to just show up and start together. We will obviously separate at some point.

I want no part of the daily snow pushes I experienced in 2014. To me, its worth the risk.

Hey TD'ers. I wanted to wait till after the TD ended for all before posting this. So, another member here (DP) and I are both veterans of "not finishing". Mine was 2014 and DP's was 2015. We are both in Arizona and are training partners. We have both committed to a "redemption ITT" to begin August 20th, 2021.

We have come to the conclusion that this window offers up the best opportunity of favorable weather. We have coined this the "SmartDepart".

I'm posting this as an open invite to all who may feel similarly. We're going regardless but thought offering up an optional start date may be interesting to others.

Yes, It's two years off, but that's what we have decided. I'm just now coming off terrible Proximal Hamstring Tendinopathy and need all of it to prepare properly.

I'm not trying to do anything other than what I state.    

Anyone and everyone is welcome.

I met Hal briefly before I crossed the Great Basin. Of all the people riding, he might be the most inspiring to me, simply because he's a few years older and still making it happen. I felt honored to meet him; the other rider I was with at the time described him as the Yoda of the Tour Divide. Living it right!

Agreed 100%. Never had the pleasure of meeting Hal but what a tremendous inspiration to us all.

I had an idea of re-naming, naming the route the "Hal Russel Trail" in his honor. I even phoned the Adventure Cycling Ass. I was met with a rather terse answer.

Anyway, maybe the "organizers" of the TD could take a look at it.

The man's a warrior. It sounds pretty bad. I hope he's ok and has a speedy recovery as possible after what he's been through.
Thank you Josh for the inspiring ride!

He rode 2014? With a broken leg if I remember correctly

I’m just going to throw this out there. Not trying to be ugly, however, it is my opinion that it is extremely poor form to quit a race because you can’t set a new record or because you can’t win the race.  I think it disrespects the other racers and the community in general.  These races are about many things, including, adversity and how you deal with it. Examples from both sides of this view by multiple riders this year.   I’ve said my peace.   Thanks,  Scott.

I can certainly understand your point and agree with it "mostly."  Myself and many other here aren't the level these front runners are at. We probably all came up racing local events. I cant fathom quitting, simply because I wasn't in position to win. Heck, I wasn't in position to win far more than I was.

However the TD is a different animal. Recovery time after one of these can be measured in months. I would assume the planning for future events comes to mind before scratching. Its a new phenomenon we are seeing. If money becomes the driving force, we have lost the grass roots, almost "underground" feel of these things.

...and Josh's dots are tightly packed in the same place as Sofiane...I'm guessing there is snow on part of Brooks Lake.  Sofiane is now heading up Union Pass...let's see what happens...

I was chatting about this with another pal dot watcher. Just to see what the race in 2015 looked like when JP, JK and NB fought it out, I ran a replay to this same point in the race. Give it a try.

I'll just say this, I think JK is right where he wants to be at this point. Gonna be good!

Nice, I ran the replay mode before I made the post. It looked like he never stopped. How long was he there?

I see Sofaine didn't even stop in Ovando. He's +2 days and has a total of :59 minutes stop time. Forgetting fatigue, how can he even resupply or get enough water by never stopping? SMH.

Amazing to watch Josh Ibbett's performance on KOKO.

How about this declarative statement about Leal Wilcox from a TD FB page. Hmmm, gonna be interesting dot watching this year.

The fastest female ITT record is 15 days, 10 hours and 59 minutes, held by none other than Lael herself, but this year she wants to try and beat the men's record of 13 days 22 hours, 51 minutes. The Tour Divide starts on June 14th, and with all the snow the mountains have been getting, the trails are likely to be in less-than-optimal condition. Whether or not the conditions allow her to break the overall record this year, she aims to be the first woman to ever win the Tour Divide outright.

2020 AZTR. The gears are turning so-to-speak, I think you all know there are major route changes coming. What about the start date? We are seriously considering moving it to the fall. Say what?!? Yep, probably late October, still a bit too toasty in early October. Historical temp averages for late October are similar to mid-April. The huge advantage to this would be the North Rim 'should' be free of snow, meaning the trail will be rideable and eliminate the concern of the Park Service about bikes on a 'Closed' road. Services would still be closed & Jacob Lake Inn would now be slightly off-route. Think about this: The additions of the upper Mt. Lemmon change, Four Peaks & Kaibab Plateau would essentially eliminate roughly 70 miles of pavement, add over 60 miles of singletrack (most of which is actual AZT). Let there be no doubt, the AZT800 will retain its mark as being the toughest singletrack route. Let's discuss...

Hi John,

I actually LOVE the thinking. I won't ever do the AZTR but the thinking is my point. I have been a HUGE advocate to either moving the TD grand depart or offering up a second, "smart depart", say third Friday in August.

The weather is normally a huge third man of the TD. I realize you can ITT anytime you want and I will in 2021. But the same would hold true for the AZTR. Jay Petervary also likes the August start date as to the prime weather window up north and the potential that the monsoons have past or diminished down New Mexico.

Kudos to an open mind.

Steve

I read the reports and I also know Greg. I don't think he was overly critical, he just wrote it as he saw it from a tired often frustrated and foreign point of view. I can imagine the sorts of blogs that a few American ridders might write if they rode through Moss Side completely bolloxed. I enjoyed his blog as it was raw and not overly focused on the afterglow of completion as so many seem to be. Made me excited about my attempt this year for sure.

Dave, you're obviously welcome to your opinion. However for you to "imagine how a few American riders would write" vs. how Greg actually DID write, is simply giving a pal, a pass.

I travel internationally frequently. When I'm home and especially when I'm in a host country, I will always act as an ambassador for my country, my sport and myself. If I see things I find a "shithole" or fat unhealthy people, I can simply process it, and move along, keeping my negative feelings to myself.

I'm proud of this country and middle America. If mining is so abhorrent, might I suggest riding a bicycle made from bamboo and hemp.

Found it. Post #886 is his write up. You'll need to find the actual verbiage. It was Greg Mays blog.

http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/ultra-racing/tour-divide-2016-race-discussion-thread/msg85578/#msg85578

I remember that thread. It was a UK rider that posted his diary up. I think it was me who called him out on his outright and bitter contempt for middle America. He used robust quantities of profanity to describe riding through small mi ing towns with vivid descriptions of what he though of the towns, the mines and the kind folks within.

He frowned on taxidermy displayed in the numerous, nameless small town bars & restaurants.

I'll look a bit and try to find it.

I do think the risk of an early August start are: high temps, little surface water, and monsoons in NM.

Agree. I think third Friday August gives; ***hope*** that by the time you get to Southern Colorado/NM, the Monsoons may just be past. Warm temps are not my concern. I ride/train in Phoenix and am very comfortable riding in warmer weather. Much more so than the snow/sleet and freezing rain I experienced in 2014. Surface water is a thought for sure. Our Monsoons in Arizona can be diminishing in Mid-September but heck, its the weather right?

As you and others have stated, there is no perfect start time. That said, I watch the GD every year and usually see the terrible Banff through Mid-Montana weather.

Also the S >>>>> N, GD start, as you say, offers a great window as well. Certainly miss the monsoons and likely little to no walking over the high passes

On the start date discussion. Another member here (Dp) and I are training partners. We kiddingly call our August ITT start, the "Smart Depart"

It really makes a lot of sense. I believe there could be enough energy to even have two start dates, 2nd Friday in June and 3rd Friday in August.

In 2014, Riding (walking) Whitefish divide and Red Meadow were an all day deal. In dry conditions it would be a few hour ride. Richmond Peak had just been dumped on the day prior. It had 24 inches of fresh snow, another half day up on that. I wore down prematurely due to conditions I frankly wasn't prepared for.

Being underground, I want my best chance possible. If August is it, thats when I'll line-up. Heck, If I could find ol' Crazy Larry, I'll bet he'd even lead me out to the trailhead.

Got a blow of bad news; job has pulled my grand departure vacation time. I’m not taking it lightly and have looked at some alternate start dates. I need feedback to understand if the dates are viable and what additional risks/challenges they come with.

First alternate June 5th - June 28th
Second alternate Aug 8 - Sep 6th

What say the community?

Missing the Grand Depart, all you're missing is the great vibe of the community in and around the start. That said, the weather in early June, more often than not is terrible. I attempted 2014 and had snow/sleet/freezing rain for 4-5 days pretty much straight.

The August/September dates are really favorable for a good window. I THINK it was Jay Petervary who claims August, into September are optimum.

I am planning on a redemption ride August, 2021. I can choose when and I am choosing August/September.

I'm so far out due to terrible Hamstring Tendinopathy.

As I see it, your "bad news" is actually good news.