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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 31, 2018, 02:15:51 PM
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Also, looks like we're going to go with only the north rim for snow detours in the 750. I'll have a GPX file, but there really isn't much need -- just take highway 67 to Jacob Lake, then get back on the trail where it crosses highway 89a.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 31, 2018, 12:49:19 PM
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Caches, trail magic and visitation.I'm working on the long email I send to everyone with important information. But I want to address a few things here. Water caches: These are becoming a big issue. I'm organizing volunteers to replenish and clean the major cache boxes before and after the race. Any issue with the caches will get blamed on the race, and can lead to no more AZTR. Too many people (in government positions and land agencies) know about the race and are watching. There is a legitimate concern that the race will deplete the caches. To that end: -- There are a number of public water caches on the trail. These are OK to use, but not encouraged. We cannot have the race depleting them because they are relied upon by thru-hikers. Topping off is OK, but do NOT land at a cache dry, or plan to take an entire gallon from one. In general the advice is: Never rely on water caches. Plan as if they are not there. Carry plenty of water between reliable water sources. Your safety depends on your self-sufficiency. -- Never, under any circumstances, take water with a person's name written on it. Their life may be depending on it. Violating this is grounds for instant disqualification. -- If you encounter a water cache box that is depleted (less than 2 gallons), has trash, or is otherwise in disarray, please send me an email as soon as possible. All of us are responsible for them, and any issues will be blamed on the race. -- Bring and study the water chart (PDF) on this page: https://aztrail.org/explore/water-sources/ . There are other water sources out there and they may save your thirsty lips plus reduce the overall impact of the race on the trail. Trail Magic: Absolutely NO unattended food and beverage caches, PLEASE! These are a bad, bad idea for so many reasons and if we cannot control ourselves, they will be the undoing of the race. Last year there was one that became a trash problem and was directly linked to the race by government officials. Do not leave drinks or food unattended, in a cooler, or otherwise, anywhere on the route, especially not at a water cache! Besides being against the spirit of the race it's bad trail form, causes litter, is bad for wildlife and wilderness. Trail magic is truly unexpected and from a stranger who is not there specifically for the race. If you know about the race and are out on the course you should not offer *anything* to a racer, unless they are dropping out or otherwise continuing not a part of the race. Then by all means, help to your best ability. Visitation: I'm clarifying this in the rules. AZTR follows TD guidelines -- minor forms of visitation on the route are allowed but not encouraged at all. In general a visitor to the race better be local to the route, better visit racers in town or near services, and only for maximum a couple hours. Self support and equal opportunity, ok? I can't believe I have to say this, but no pacers! Planning to have someone meet you out on the route is against the (generally accepted) self-supported ideal and an unfair advantage. As always, if anyone disagrees with these rules or otherwise doesn't want to follow them (or the route!), that's perfectly fine. No judgement here, just please go ride the AZT on your own and don't have anything to do with the event. Thanks.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 29, 2018, 07:49:36 PM
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I totally agree. Fact is, I arrived at the South rim around noon the day before with the intention of getting a camping permit, hike to the bottom, sleep some hours and hike to the north rim early next morning before the trail closure. I went to the permits office and was told all camps were full that night and the next. I changed plans, spend rest of the day and night at the South rim and started the hike next morning with the intention of doing the complete through hike that day. At some point I just hit the wall. I found a spot off the trail where somebody had had a camp fire and took a nap. I am not proud of it, but it shows that no matter how good intentions you have and planning you do, you might fail at some point.
Just a note for this year's racers: you should be able to talk the back country office folks into giving you a permit for the 'overflow stock site' at Phantom Ranch. This info was in the email that I sent everyone before the race (expect that email soon). It's a provision they have for AZT thru-hikers, a category everyone in the 750 falls into. Don't tell them you're racing in order to get it -- just that you are a thru-hiker/rider and had no way of knowing/planning when you'd arrive at the rim. So, yes, as others have noted, do not plan to camp in the canyon without a permit. Things do happen and walls are hit, but everyone needs to try to follow the rules, as Jakob did. flyboy -- you can get things like apples, bagels, snickers and lemonade. No real meals unless you pre-book them (and even then only at a specified time). Everything is $$$. I highly recommend the lemonade while you give your shoulders a break... sundog -- I wouldn't recommend House Rock Rd for most motorhomes. But it is driveable in a sedan -- as long as it is dry. If it's been raining hard not even 4x4 is enough.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 27, 2018, 10:29:08 AM
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I just closed tracking registration for the Grand Depart. Event is full.
ITT option is still available, but ITT means a different day not a different start time on April 5th. Please, no ITTs on the same day as the group start.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 25, 2018, 09:54:29 AM
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If I get a little free time before start date I will check out snow conditions at Aspen Corner and post. Appears to be drying up nicely around Flagstaff.
That would be fantastic, thank-you Brad. Looks like a typical spring heat up is heading this way later this week. Near 90 predicted in Tucson (!). That should melt some snow up north. Hopefully a subsequent cooldown is on the way for the race start though...
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 23, 2018, 10:28:56 AM
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Thanks Scott for the 10 k version, it loaded onto my GPS like butter. I am entirely new to the route, is there any snow detour info for me to add to my cue sheets? Besides the final push after the north rim, that is.
I just drove through Jacob Lake and there is indeed snow around even near town and by the AZT. The trail does not seem viable. The other questionable area would be Aspen Corner outside of Flag. That snow detour may be in play as well, but please standby.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 21, 2018, 09:25:56 AM
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More of 'em!? When riding Montana Mountain a year ago
Yikes Kurt. I forgot about that story with Kaitlyn. Back in 2006 Tim McCabe got harassed by a fox near Picketpost, where it bit his sleeping bag and held on for a similar ride that Kaitlyn's fox took. I believe it stole one of his shoes, too. Ez and I did find a dead fox in a wash, so maybe there's one less rabid fox. I didn't realize that mammals can carry rabies without any signs (no aggression, foaming, etc), though it does make sense. Hanyo -- the Garmin eTrex mount is known for ejecting its cargo at times, but it might be explained by the mount not being fully engaged. They also fatigue after a year or two. I've only ever had an older one throw a GPS on me. After the second ejection, I replace.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 20, 2018, 04:01:57 PM
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2018 GPX and cues are up!
Changes:
- New rerouted singletrack leaving Oracle State Park (small change) - 750: Hewitt Station Rd detour on forest roads (as was in play in 2017, the closure is still in effect) - 750: New dirt route continuing from Jacobs Crosscut on the Massacre Grounds trail, to Weavers Needle Vista. (Thanks to John Schilling) Less paved and narrow AZ 88. - 750: Update to Highline trail (one reroute)
As I noted earlier, AZ 88 is under construction M-Thu during daylight hours. One lane road and flaggers are likely during this time. Traffic should be slow.
In this area there have also been confirmed cases of rabid foxes (two). Riders need to be aware of this especially if camping. The warning is for all of the western Superstision Mtns. Apparently one repeatedly approached and was aggressive to a trail crew. I spent the last 4-5 days in the area and saw nothing... but do be aware.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 20, 2018, 02:25:21 PM
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Thanks for the beta, Aaron. I was just about to check the latest since there have been several storm systems through AZ lately.
Options are not that great... I had not thought of walking the pavement. Then once out of the park, the road is fair game.
It's a really tough call because we need to do our best to stay on the good side of the NPS, but at the same time they are being ridiculous. Certainly there isn't enough snow that they would be plowing or anything, so the safety risk is nil.
It sure does sound like there is too much snow to make the trail a viable route, and temps have been average, not hot, for meltage.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 19, 2018, 09:35:36 AM
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Tracker is up! http://trackleaders.com/aztr18f65 showing. There are a few more than 9 spots left given that ITTs and southbounders do not count towards the total. 2018 GPX files to come soon. I have a question to the locals... I would like to pay it forward and add water to a cashe on my way down to the border. Are there any water cashe boxes near the route to the border? If so which ones and how far off route?
There aren't many south of Tucson if that's your route. The main one is Freeman Rd as has been discussed here. It's about 20 miles of dirt off AZ highway 79. Maybe someone else can think of some south of Tucson? Sahuarita Rd? More are popping up as the trail gets popular with thru-hikers.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 17, 2018, 10:54:38 AM
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The intent of that rule is that no racer should *set up* a cache. The public water caches are, as Kurt said, available to all AZT users, and racers fall into that group. Anyone traveling the AZT (not just racers) should try to use the caches sparingly and pay-it-back by replenishing them when possible/practical. You bring up a fair point that those of us familiar with the race and its long history understand, but could be made more clear. Thus, I've added #9 to the 'OK but use sparingly' section: The following are allowed, but not encouraged. Please use sparingly. 6. Unplanned support from other AZT racers is OK 7. Trail magic OK - but please, no begging 8. Mailing stuff ahead to Post Offices is OK 9. Using public AZT water caches is OK - but no personal or race specific caches, pleasePart of the intent of the 74 person limit is to reduce the burden on the pubic caches. There is a very high likelihood of 15 or more scratches before Freeman, so hopefully no more than 50-60 riders reach it. What Kurt and others said about not relying completely on the caches (don't arrive dry!) or any water source is great advice, and we are relying on the honor system here, as with many other things with this race. I have personally arrived at Freeman with 4+ liters of good water during the race. If it gets to be a problem the rules may need to be changed, or less people allowed to race at one time, but we'll deal with it as it arises. Thus far it has been ok. I am aware that thru-hiker numbers are increasing, so it is a concern.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 13, 2018, 08:15:32 PM
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Will there be a 2018 edition of the track or is the course the same as 2017?
For 2018 there are some small updates, reroutes and some more dirt in place of pavement! Wanted to mention, while I'm thinking about it, that AZ88 (Apache Trail) is under construction this year [thanks to John Schilling]. Here's ADOT's page: https://www.azdot.gov/projects/central-district-projects/state-route-88/overviewSounds like some riders may get caught in some one lane flagger type situations. No construction at night or Fri-Sun, they say. But during the day Mon-Thur it's possible it might be down to one lane. So heads up to everyone on that one. Also note that if construction crews don't want you riding through the one lane, it is perfectly fine to ride in a pilot (or private) vehicle. Follow the law and rules that matter first and foremost. Bikepacking purity and AZTR rules are always trumped by actual laws and rules. This applies to other situations -- like fire closures, thinning, etc, too.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 06, 2018, 10:27:14 AM
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It's finally time for me to have another adventure on the 750!
Scott, I think the Kaibab Plateau is going to be snow-free by April unless there's a big Spring storm. Maybe we should axe that snow detour for this year and put the most rideable miles of AZT into the race for real! Whaddya think?
Yeehaw Kurt, welcome back to the 750. This sure seems like the year to ride the full trail up there, given conditions and the NPS. Difficulty factor is significantly higher -- generally the last thing your legs want to do after the canyon hike is pedal steep trail or carry over trees! Also, not a single wildflower. WHAT? Race canceled! Better hope that changes between now and April 5th... Tracking UpdateThe first 24 hours of tracking registration yielded 31 people, with one ITT. That means 30 'grand' depart slots are taken as of now.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: March 01, 2018, 08:31:02 AM
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Ok, thanks Scott. I should be able to drag my carcase out of the park before lying down. Under the radar it is!
Yeah, I guess to sum up, you might ask about a backcountry permit if getting a permit to camp in the canyon anyway. But if you aren't going to visit the backcountry office, I wouldn't bother. And always camp as discretely (out of sight and Leave No Trace!) as possible. I guess I never considered obtaining a backcountry permit until now. I know there are provisions for AZT riders and you can get them as a walk in at the south rim...but we're coming SOBO and everything is closed up north. Should I send away for one to the address in the site below and note we're doing the AZT? https://grandcanyon.com/planning/backcountry-permit-procedures/For SOBO you can better predict your timing, so it would be possible to get a permit in advance. That might work well for camping in the Canyon (e.g. Cottonwood or Phantom Ranch) but for SOBO you shouldn't need to camp in the park and on the north rim, so I would not bother with a backcountry permit for that.
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Forums / Ultra Racing / Re: 2018 AZTR300/750 Race Discussion Thread
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on: February 27, 2018, 08:15:18 AM
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Scott, if we do go with the full AZT on the North Rim this year would it be considered good form to get a backcountry permit or is it best to keep a low profile? Happy to go with what you locals recommend as being an international, I wouldn’t want to reflect badly on the race by doing the wrong thing.
That's a good question. A lot of people do find the need to camp out of the canyon (and being out of the canyon is *much* better -- do not camp in the canyon without a permit!) once they cross. As far as I know you do need a permit to camp in the park, even up on the rim. There's the 'hiker/biker' site in the campground where cyclists are welcome at any time, but that's a little out of the way. One thing to remember is that you exit the park after 9 (or 11?) miles. Once in National Forest dispersed camping is allowed, so from there to the Utah border, camping is available everywhere. If pulling a permit to camp in the canyon (e.g. the thru-hiker overflow site) then it's probably worth asking about a backcountry permit for up on the rim, if you think you might need it. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother and plan to get out of the park before camping.
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