I signed up for the 750. ALL IN!!!!!
No email but Leila's paypal says paid 50 to Scott. Thats a good deal- seems 15 to 20 less than last year. I am going to buy a low-level ATA membership now as well.

Edit- email received Scott. See you on the 11th!
Signed up for ATA Agave level.... I am stoked for a 4th run!!

Couple of Tucson local knowledge questions:
2 - Re: Water on highway up to Summerhaven. Assuming there's water at Molina or Prison Camp [is there?], no other water until the top at Summerhaven? Looking at the map, there seems to be so many campgrounds which might have water...

I have found water between Molino and Palisade. Bear Canyon has a creek below highway. You can hear it running usually. It s a few miles above prison camp. In '10, '12 and '13 the creek was running. It has no name on the topo but is the creek in Bear Canyon next to highway for a few miles. A good source I have used 2x.

Tims table from 2012:



# 1.    Bear Creek (spring fed) crosses under road.         6.5 miles N of the Border            
# 2.   Parker Creek (dam fed)               2.5 miles N of Parker TH Starting line            
# 3.   Cott Tank (solar pwd) spigot (no bikes inside fence)   4.5 miles N of Canelo Pass 19.5 miles from the start         
# 4.   Patagonia (store      resterants   hotel   PO)                  31 miles from the start  
# 5.   Sonoita (store      resterants   hotel)                                
# 6.   Gardner Creek (rain/snow fed)            10.7 miles N of Sonita            
# 7.   Kentucky Camp (spigot)               6 miles N of Garner Creek 16. 5 from Sonoita              
# 8.   Oak Tree Canyon stock tank (well fed)         8 miles N of K Camp            
# 9.   The Lake (rain fed)               12.6 miles N of Oak Tree off course north on 2 track after forest gate.               
#10.   Cienga Creek under Three Bridges (all year)         2 miles north of I-10            
#11.   La Posta Quemada Ranch (sink off course)         2.6 miles from 3 Bridges .7 off            
#12.   La Sevilla Campground (spigot on rock)         2.3 miles from LPQ Jct. 41.6 from K Camp            
#13.   Tucson (store      resterants   hotel   PO)
#14.   Chiva Tank (rain)                  2.4 miles below Redington road            
#14.2 Tanke Verde Creek and water tanks jump fence            6.2 miles off Redington road            
#15.   The Lake (rain usually has water)            4 miles after crossing Redington road            
#16.   West Spring (spring fed) not great            3.5 miles past The Lake            
#17.   Molino water hole (rain snow melt)              up steam from trail crossing east of Highway         
#18.   Palisades TH (spigot mid April to mid Nov.)         12 miles up the Highway 42 miles from Broadway in Tucson         
#19.   Summerhaven (visitor’s center      store   restaurant   rooms)   off course
#20.   Water Buffalo Oracle State Park            when the park reopens            
#21.    Oracle (stores      resterants   motel)            off course   
#22   Beehive Well (big metal tank not good)         19.5 miles north of Tiger mine rd.            
#23.   Freeman Road (water cache)               just north of Freeman Road            
#24.   Ripsey Wash spring (.2 miles south of trail stay on road)   18.7 miles north of Freeman Road            
#25.   Pinal Co Maintenance Yard; 0.1 m north of Kelvin bdg.      outside facet available M-Th      6:30am-3:30pm      
#26.   Wilson Trailer Court; 0.5m N Kelvin bdg.            outside facet phone also available if needed             
#27.   They are now saying you can filter the Gila River    57.5 miles from Oracle               
#27a. There is a little creek 15.7 miles from the Kelvin Bridge turn onto jeep road and go north east for .4 drop into creek isn’t easy.            
#28.   Trough Spring         .25 miles off course go north on Telegraph canyon road 135 feet turn left on 2 track 7.5 miles from the finish line of the 300.            
#29.   From Picket Post to Hewett Station is 1.7 from here east its 1 mile to Boyce Thompson Arboretum or 4.5 to Superior or 22 miles to Stores at Apache Jct.            
#30.  Spigot at Lost Dutchman State Park 7.8 from Apache Jct.            
#31.  Tortilla Flat spigot at Campgound on left store on right 11 miles from LDSP.            
#32.  Burn Corral Camp Ground spigot 19.5 from TF.            
#33.  Cholla Bay Camp Ground spigot showers 10 miles from BCCG.            
#34.  Pumpkin Center stores restaurant 13 miles from Cholla Bay.          
#35.  Jakes Corner store bar and grill 10      5 from PC.    
#36.  Rye restaurant 8.5 from JC.          
#37.  Payson 11.8 from Rye.   
38- Oak Spring. 20.5 miles from Payson.         
#39.  Pine is 22 miles from Payson look for 2 track west of highway leads to town saves riding on highway.            
#40.  Red Rock spring 3.4 miles from Pine TH was dry at one point water reported 3/27/11            
#41   Pine spring 4.6 from TH water reported 3/27/11      
#42.  Weber Creek 7.8 miles from TH has always had water in the past.            
#43.  Bray Creek 11 miles from TH.            
#44.  North Sycamore Creek 12.2 from TH         
#45.  Chase Creek 13.8 from TH            
#46.  East Verde River 17.5 from TH         
#47.  General Springs Canyon starting at 1.5 from FS 300 several creek crossing always water         
#48.  East Clear Creek at 9.2 from FS 300 often a deep creek crossing has been dry in the past.            
#49.  Rock Crossing and Blue Ridge Camp Grounds only open mid May thru Oct.            
#50.  Blue Ridge Ranger Station spigot .8 east on highway 87      
#51.  Pine Spring 21 miles north of highway 87 .4 mile off course east of dirt road in field              
#52.  35.5 miles from 87 the AZT crosses FS 219 this is the first easy access to and from Mormon Lake 2 miles all rideable off course.
#53  Apache Spring Trail to Mormon Lake is .7 miles from FS 219 steep rocky trail is the shortest route less then one mile to Mormon Lake HAB back up.            
#54  Double Springs Camp Ground 4.5 miles from Apache Spring trail. Creek and spigot when Camp Ground open mid May to Oct. 3 miles all paved back to Mormon Lake.            
#55.  Pine Grove Camp Ground when open (mid May) has water and showers 9 miles from Double springs .5 off course            
#56.  Horse Lake typically has water 4 miles from Pine Grove.            
#57.  Flagstaff has everything 16 miles from Horse Lake.            
#58.  Buffalo Park on the north side of Flag has spigot (not sure when this gets turned on).            
#59.  Russell Tank is the most likely spot between Flag and Tusayan 70 miles from Buffalo Park.            
#60.  Tusayan 25 miles from Russell Tank.            
#61.  South Rim there is a spigot near corrals at Yaki Point.            
#62. There is a spigot after foot bridge 7 miles below Yaki Point and at Phantom ranch .5 farther.            
#63.  Cottonwood Camp 7 miles past Phantom spigot.            
#64.  Water fountain at North Kaibab TH not likely to be on. Water can be found at employee housing find ranger. water             
#65.  Crystal Spring 16 miles from North Kaibab TH            
            
#66.  Dog Lake and Wildlife Drinker 2.7 miles from Crystal Spring. The Wildlife drinker is just past Dog Lake on west edge of meadow.

There are other sources too. Fred G page shows a bunch. Route cues have a few. I have found at least one source myself on route not listed anywhere- found it looking through satellite pix one day.

Edit- added #38- Oak spring.

Curiak's bag. Not sure who makes it. Nice Dyneema X Gridstop fabric on the side panels. Notice how he left the velcro seat post attachment open- to allow full drop is my guess.

Stock bags usually will not work. I made my own as there were no offerings in 2012. I know at least one other bag maker is doing dropper compatible  as I have seen a pic here of another on Mike Curiaks Lenz 29+.

I use a Kind Shock post for bikepacking and have used Gravity Dropper and Specialized Command in the past as well. 4lbs is the max load I have used. Post returns at normal speed at that load. I dont think all riders would benefit but most would. Slower climbers are ideal for the drop post. They (we) benefit from the energy saved on the DH. Super fast fit types who ascend really well and are pretty good high post DH riders may not see any reason to use one. Even that mindset is changing though as a dropper post has a legit strong finish in a bikepacking race now.

Clearing the tire with stock seatbag offerings is another story. So is getting full post drop with the seatpost attachments most bags have.

I finished a new kit. It is so sweet. Thanks to 12Wheels for selling me such a great sewing machine. I made the front harness in September and used it on the Flagstone route. The seatbag, gas tank and frame bag are brand new and heading to AZT750 soon!

To update the thread on the TX-07 fabric, here are my results:

1. Non-coated side out (white) was a dismal failure in CTR. The hand pogies attracted dirt and debris immediately, and then the film on the inside failed quickly. Couldnt even clean them off. They only still worked as my hands got all hot like a sauna even though wet.
2. The coated side out (grey) bags I made all still worked even after the Flagstone ride I did in October. A small hole or two was developing. The coating was not working anymore. The all held at the seams though and were made with a crappy 70's machine.
3. Jesse Jakomait was using an all TX-07 framebag and basically all TX-07 front assembly from Bedrock Bags in the CTR. He happened to finish 2nd so I think the bags worked.
4. I decided to go with VX-07 now. TX-07 is race winner only type material for this application.

Mike Sharkey      9:14:53   
Bec Bale           9:14:58
Mark Caminiti      10:07:27
Dan Lockery       11:03:27
Hal Loewen         11:03:28
Will Ritchie          11:12:35
Brue Syvertsen      11:12:38
Teresa Garcia        11:12:42

Thats what trackleaders says comes after Cullen Barker. I guess I was even slower than I remember!

http://www.trackleaders.com/ctr13

The 2013 results are not complete. I finished in 10d5h?? min and I know others finished after Cullen Barker.

I would say July 15th is the earliest in any year to be safe. I went on the 13th in '08. I saw some snow and water. It was a quick melt year (the earliest melt-out in CTR era IMO). But the Snotel data (Slumgullion Pass) says only a recent storm makes 2014 heavier than '08. You can never tell until April anyway in Colorado as late snow determines the melt date.

http://www.wcc.nrcs.usda.gov/nwcc/site?sitenum=762&state=co

Check the Snotel site on May 1st. Compare to May 1st '08. That year total melt-out happened around July 18th on the CTR IMO.

I use this one or ones like it:

http://www.rockywoods.com/Hardware-Zippers/Seam-Sealers-Seam-Tapes/Seam-Sure-Seam-Sealer

I ditch the cap applicator (messy) and use a small fine paintbrush to coat the seams. Works well. Fills holes and gaps too. I would say a definite upgrade from no sealer. Not seam tape though. Very easy for the most part to use but only about 90-95% watertight IMO. I think that is just due to the nature of water/rain, seam holes, fabric stretch and only using water resistant zippers. YMMV.

Free Shipping until March 20 at Fall River!!
Minimum order $25

We have a balm now too. Just like the cream, but in a balm.

Geronimo! Pain Balm

http://apacheherbs.1freecart.com/i/286892/geronimo-pain-balm.htm

To add to the debate, my 5 ITT finishes (4 race 1 solo) best time is with 70back/30bike weight distribution. That time is slow though (8d10h) so does it mean anything? Not sure. All finishes were different distances or directions basically. If you include my '07 near finish paced out to a finish, my worst efforts were all weight on bike ('13) and all weight on back ('07).

However, in AZT750 my best time out of three was when I was like 60bike/40back. The 70back/30bike effort was slowest?

So all I have learned is that there is no data supporting one setup for me that trumps all.

I have to say that after trying no backpack in the 2013 CTR, here is my .02:

It pretty much sucked unless my load was light. Like approaching a resupply. Leaving Durango, Silverton and Copper I was mad heavy. Only way to do it is to:
1. Be a total badass who can carry a regular or near regular load on the bike. Think Jefe or Jesse. And those guys still trimmed out excess weight/bulk IMO
2. Carry nothing- like no gear really at all. Minimum water food and batteries to reach next resupply. Like day ride with a E-bivy style.
3. Carry too much heavy stuff like batteries and redundant food and water like me. If your slow, like me, that is a double whammy of death IMO.

I went back to a comfy pack (Talon 11) for an October ride on a CTR type route (1/2 Singletrack or so). My load was heavy, touring load. But I did better hikeabiking than in CTR. If the route is 30-50% ST, IMO one has to be a podium type to really go no backpack. for the rest of us the backpack makes us faster and healthier later in a singletrack event.

As Scott says above, leaving Silverton was tough for me too, as with no backpack, and me being slow to reach Mt Princeton 220 miles away, my bike weighed 60 lbs or more. My slow ass needed more food. But of course I made Princeton with 3-4lbs of food left? Dummmmmmb.

Race vs. ITT vs. Tour?

I say race, but how about a little fistbump for the 3 new resupply stops (2 in Breck- 1 in Leadville) that opened this morning at 8am!!!
I believe the elevation gain for the CTR just got a little higher

edit- looks like Frisco also had a new resupply added this morning. Make that 4!

After a week long ride in AZ, I would say IMO Osprey Talon packs are the by far the most comfortable pack I have ever used. I have not tried Wingnut but have used a variety of other packs over the years. I stuffed the Talon 11 m/l with 3 liters of water, lots of food, bike gear, a 16oz slime bottle, etc. So much stuff I could barely zip it and it felt heavy picking it up. As much or more than I fit in the cheap REI Flash 18 or Dakine Nomad I had been using.

Well the Talon 11 not only holds more than it looks like it will, one cant seem to make it heavy enough to make it feel bad on the shoulders (short of stuffing a brick in it). The pack seems to keep all the weight on the hips, or at least more of it than other packs I have used. I only "felt" the pack after 5 days and thats when I added extra water and Slime. Still the pack felt good on my back.

I was trying to go no backpack in singletrack events. In '13 CTR the bike felt too heavy this way- the only way to race no backpack in singletrack events is to ditch nearly all heavy or bulky gear (like Jesse Jakomait). I should have tried an Osprey sooner as now I see why people ride these events with stuffed Osprey packs.

If you have not tried a Talon pack, you have to demo one overnight. I am glad I did.

Hello Matt. Yes Tim and others who have given me advice on this thread are your go-to.  I may be able to help after April, if all goes something near to plan.  I got a .gpx file of the BCT detour from Tim, and merged it with the 2013 AZTR route .gpx file to come up with my route.  Also, Tim and Mark have ridden it since and had their route tracked with the Coconino Stage Race. Here is the link on Trackleaders [http://trackleaders.com/coconino13i.php?name=Tim_McCabe___Mark_Caminiti][/url]

Hey Mike enjoy your spring ride. I forgot to add there is one problem area after the Sonoran Preserve on the Phoenix traverse. I dont think its an issue, but be aware of it. When we exited the preserve/canal area into a neighborhood we passed no trespassing signs. If I remember correctly I think they were to keep out vehicles from a canal area. We saw tire tracks and footprints and dog tracks from the neighborhood but had to hop a closed gate or two. Since we didnt see signs earlier it seems locals use the area unimpeded sans vehicles.

I must add this part too. The trails on the route from Lost Dutchman to Apache Junction are pretty tough. First part is Jacobs Crosscut and it is terrible. The park stuff after that is flowy goodness though. Jacobs is a long flat hike a bike for the most part. The views of the wilderness almost make up for it.

Make sure you use Tims new track. There was a weird track issue on the Great Western Trail (area before Lost Dutchman) in the original track. Had I been alone it would have been a tough choice to not follow the track (which we did after some discussion).

Mat there are physical and logistical barriers you need to be aware of. AZTtripper (Tim) is your go to for the intel here.
My .02:

In October you must start before the Grand Canyon NP closes to do a thru hike- so you have to start before the 15th unless you got hook ups to let you in at the north rim gate or you ride from the gate. It doesnt make sense to hike with your bike unless you are planning a full AZTR ride IMO.

If you plan to detour off the AZTR to the Flagstone route in fall  goatheads will send you on a detour at the routes intersection with state hwy 169. You will have to ride around to the west to hwy 69 and back to the northern most entry point of the BCT (hwy 69 crossing west of Cordes Junction). In the fall goatheads rule the area north of the northern end of the BCT. You can also take 169 east to I-17 and south to Cordes Junction and then go west on 69. This move gives you a better resupply/hotel option that is better than going around 169 to 69 but you have to ride interstate.

If I was planning a fall AZTR ride north to south I would avoid canyon crossings and the Flagstone detour. My route would be South Rim to Oracle, including bypassing the Highline Trail and heading from Mogollon Rim straight to Payson. I would also possibly bypass Ripsey Hill like Tim did in his finish of the Flagstone ride we did in October.

I am sure others will add some nice info here. Lots of possibilities and options for adding or subtracting stuff.

Well day 6 was the end for me. I just couldnt really turn cranks without pain. That pic above of me at Picketpost is a fitting finale. I went up the hill 6 miles in a stunning 3.5 hrs, and that is an easy 6 miles. The next 9 are really tough. Heck the next 30 were gonna be trouble as my knee wouldnt even climb Picketpost and there is no easy way to bail the Gila canyons. So I turned around and headed back the trailhead. It was a really nice ride in the full moonlight. My knee thanked me, relenting a little pain wise.

Totals for the ride ? Not sure I ended up riding to Superior, hitching to Florence/Kelvin Hwy, riding 1 mile to say goodbye to Tim at Wilson trailer court, and then riding into the next town via dirt road to hitch to Tucson. Maybe 340 miles? It was a good adventure, pretty tough but not death ride tough.

I learned some things.
Osprey Talon series packs are about as comfortable as people say they are. I was impressed. No pack bugging me feeling ever. Even jam packed.
Hand made bike bags getting better. Performed really well.
The BCT is a great fall/winter/spring ride I bet. If you live near it take advantage.
Coconino loop first 80 plus miles were a good ride. I probably need to do the loop someday.
It is nice to bikepack in AZ in fall or spring when Colorado is shut down. So many opportunities.
 

Day 5
The day started well. We rode easy trails to eat at a gas station.


Then it got hard. Mcdowell to Lost Dutchman the way we went is AZT 300 hard.
Well I got from the Sonoran preserve to Lost Dutchman State Park. Tim laid out the midday festivities above. What he didnt mention was that it was hot- about 90 or so from about 12-4pm. Once we exited pavement and finally hit Hawes singletrack the day really improved for me. Taco place was good like Tim said.



The Great Western Trail was a killer in the dark. Sandfest. Made you feel like it was never going to end. I knew I would probably not make it out in the morning so I went ahead and rode late to get to Lost Dutchman. It was my only shot at staying on the plan at all. My knee was getting worse so I couldnt really let it sit for too long. It got sore after I got water so I stopped to rest for a few hours.