I have a question - albeit a little off topic - to all those TD vets regarding post race recovery.  How long did it take you to FULLY recover?  And by fully I mean back racing in top form. I am seriously contimplating the TD this year but I have a very (to me) important road ultra the end of August and am not sure if should even attempt a double such as this.

Rob, we will be gutted if you put off TD!

Not an off-topic query at all. Potential ill-recovery for late season events scares many away. I have a very simple formula: For every hour of sleep you lose ultra racing, you need one night of full sleep (8-9hrs) to recover. If you figure you will lose about 3 hours sleep/day, at a 18-19day pace--which I think you're good for even as a rookie--that's about 60 nights of good sleep needed.

That said, with meticulous, conservative active recovery, excellent diet (no post-divide excess weight-gain), low stress and semi-daily naps, you can be pretty well recovered by early to mid August. September is usually when emotional hunger returns, but you may not need hunger if your RPE (for the important-for-you ultra) seems easy by comparison to TD (good chance). How well you might race in that ultra (post-Divide) may also depend on how fast it goes out/whether it allows drafting or not. I would think you should be able to kill it if you can focus on maintaining fitness thru July recovery. That's where many Divide alum fall short in prep for fall racing. Stag-nation is no country even for tired racers post Divide.

Are you talking the Hoo Doo? NM heat/Divide racing would be good training for that one!

No matter what you decide, get your BP kit order in with Carousel or Epic asap. Those boys already have clogged up cues!!

Been brewin' up the creative stew for my own letter...hope to submit it soon.  Shall we expect your name to eventually appear there, Matt?

Man...I'd really like to "watch" the racing for once.

I do always crave the grand tour experience and the suffering, though. It will come down to money, time and how interesting the peloton looks by May. Also, the weather is a consideration. The outside chance to improve my PR could be enough of a motivator. The current record is weak and I feel confident I--and many others--can take at least a full day out of 17:21. It's about 30 hours to the border and, in `07 I put in a 15:22 domestic effort (following prologue), so sub 17 ought to be pretty doable with good course conditions.

Sub 16 GDMBR full-pull is the ultimate club to dream about!

Hey, I meant to say in the OP, let's keep the 'TD Basics' thread going for FAQ stuff. This is just a communique. Word up!

Happy Solstice, folks (or "Burning of the Clocks", for our UK bretheren). TD is now accepting letters of intent for the 2010 Start List.

Exactly 6 months from today, Sol Invictus, the "undefeated sun" will be peaking yet again--and so will the action in Tour Divide. Race leaders will find themselves duking it out somewhere along peak elevations of the GDMBR in central Colorado. What weather will 2010 edition be dealt? Only time will tell. The last El Nino winter was `07; a good year for speed.

Thus begins the 2010 ultra season. Happy New Year. Good luck to all...

Though it's a stretch to call it bikepacking as we know it, this artist's 'camper bike' has the right idea on bicycle self-sufficiency (in style). Says the artist of his inspiration in a Brand X blog post,

"I was eating breakfast in a village outside Beijing when I suddenly had this bizarre feeling like I was camping," [That feeling, combined with China's robust cycling culture, was the genesis for the creation of Cyr's first vehicle, "Camper Bike," in which he attached a fully functional 3-by-9-foot camper to a three-wheeled Chinese flatbed bike.]

I'm not sure about urbanism and bike campers, but as winter solstice arrives I can see myself cruising the baja coast in a ballooned version.

His paintings of the camper bike aren't bad. And the shopping cart pop-up is interesting too. Has anyone read Cormac Mcarthy's, The Road? Reviews of the film adaptation (in theaters now) compel me to check it out.

I have been spending the last few evenings reading a few sections of ‘Cycling the Great Divide’ and then studying the corresponding map and Google Earth.  I am also re-reading blogs and accounts, studying the split charts etc.  This info is then being used to slowly build a imaginary ‘daily ride/split chart’.  This daily ride chart isn’t meant to be followed but rather is a way to wrap my head around the route and do a virtual ‘pre-ride’...

nothing wrong with doing this but it helps to have a best case scenario plan and a somewhat worst case scenario plan. depending on soil content + road surfaces, various sections of the route are drastically affected--or not at all--by rain or snow. this can rewrite your split chart in a hurry.

As I contrast and extrapolate my current multi-day experience and physical abilities with what I am learning, the more daunting, but also exciting, it all seems.

Marshal, as an experienced BPer, finishing is not going to be as difficult [for you] as you think unless you have 'terrible' weather, making existence that much more uncomfortable. The real challenge to racing the Divide (well) is to avoid falling victim to ennui, which can lead to a subtle yet erosive form of depression that undermines one's ability to remain focused on the extreme macro scale/cope with the tedium of 150mi/day. Loss of focus can skim 15-20% off daily production right off the bat. This has a cascading effect of making a finish all the more difficult. The longer it takes you, the further apart resupplies occur, the more worn down, homesick, apathetic about your relationship to the racing you become. The volume alone can make it truly a suffer-fest, so again, be familiar with your suffering threshold (ST) and be ready to feed (day-to-day) on little victories, brief yet quaint encounters with locals, the fun of gorging, that one beer at dinner, the cloud formations, the scenery, etc. Whatever it takes to get through. It's hugely mental. There will be very un-fun moments. These may persist across 'great basins' or through entire mountain chains.

Instead of using the 1 or 2mi scales in G-maps to study the route, I suggest you focus on the 50-100mi scales. Use the macro-geography and 'macro goals' to help you get through. Like driving a car across country, it's best not shallow-focus on the foreground road surface for very long or it makes your eyes hurt. Think 'deep focus', which is to say (figuratively), always keep the foreground and the background in somewhat equal focus.

I guess the above's part of why in this "basics" thread you hear some of the veterans talking hokey-like about 'transcendence' and all the philosophical mumbo jumbo. The suffering can put you on the roller coaster real quick-like. Perspective, emotional equanimity, rational, sensible thinking are key to not letting the roller coaster sap your mojo. Dave Harris refers often to "mojo". I'm not sure if he's using the 'personal magnetism' definition or mojo as 'magic', but for the Divide you need some of both kinds to fill the seemingly endless hours of fireroad. You need to 'like being with yourself' and, you need those magical moments. Mum-nature has just the show to get you through if you're paying attention.

Ha, No matter how hard I try, no matter which events I choose, just no escaping those bankety blank intervals…

Marshal, sounds like you need to focus on your ST

Yep totally. A mix of physical training including a loaded bike is goooood The TD and other multidays are hard enough without starting in poor physical condition! I mostly was thinking about the mental toll of all night death march type training. A little is good if it's a big unknown so you feel confident. A lot is bad if it mentally wears you out.

Yes, no hike-a-bike death march prep needed (in a decent weather year). One can even do the bulk of loaded training on the road if necessary. Ultimately, TD is part MTB challenge but also a pretty pure cycling challenge. Meaning: You gotta turn those pedals. You gotta be able to mix up cadences and really have good pedaling form. Address ergonomics like knee and heel alignment, cleat placement + bike fit well ahead of time. There ain't enough coasting to hide for long. Downhills never seem to last (long enough). John Nobile and I calculated well over 1 million revolutions of the cranks to get from Banff to AW (@20% coasting).

On top of Matt's ideas...I'd advise against going crazy with pre TD campouts, death marches, sleep dep, etc. You need enough to be prepared but not so much that you're any where near burnt out mentally. Those who have come through the progression from shorter races to endurance to multi day to the TD are probably less likely to push that mental limit since you already know what it's like and that you're able to not sleep, camp out in a bivy, pack your gear efficiently and eat junk food

Good point Chris. Though, one caveat: Your advice is not to say a TD racer (particularly rookies) can get away without doing lots of day-ride miles loaded with kit, specifically on the race bike set up. Delayed onset soreness hurts no matter how prepared you are but it's REALLY bad if you haven't well-trained your legs/core to handle the increased eccentric contractions required to ride loaded. It's even worth it to carry a few extra rocks in your bags in May just to shock your muscles/strengthen the tendons.

And to build on that notion, the power you can sustain "for a very long time" is heavily influenced by the power you can sustain for 1 hour.  There are many ways to build the power one can sustain for an hour, and unless you have unlimited time intervals, both above and below LT power, are instrumental.

The key point here is there is only so much to be gained by going long for training, sooner or later you have to go fast if you want to increase performance.

Yep. For the go-fast, I've tried to race a 'normal' later-spring schedule in prep/taper for Divide. 'Shorter' races are done mostly at LT -or just below- with frequent demands for 5 beats above LTHR (to power thru rollers or chase down attacks). Heaven forbid, even a crit or two helps (if you don't crash out).

Hand in hand with raising one's LT comes increasing one's ST (suffering threshold). Generally speaking, a higher ST for racing = good, but don't let too much early TD pain-cave fun-time lead you down the path to physical injury. If ST + LT = a rider's 'functional LT', Then ST + TD = a rider's 'functional ST' as it pertains to volume + scale of racing a 20 day grand tour. In other words, capacity to suffer is indispensable in Divide racing. Just don't be overzealous with it too early lest you overuse tendons, exacerbate the infamous delayed onset muscle soreness which even by itself is a helluva thing for a sleep deprived, lycra-clad bikepacker to endure between days 2-5 of brutiful MT. The combo can sometimes be a game-ender.

OGM 3.18: "For one should not overlook this fact: the strong are as naturally inclined to separate as the weak are to congregate; if the former unite together, it is only with the aim of an aggressive collective action and collective satisfaction of their will to power, and with much resistance from the individual conscience; the latter, on the contrary, enjoy precisely this coming together- their instinct is just as much satisfied by this as the instinct of the born "masters" (that is the solitary, beast-of-prey species of man) is fundamentally irritated and disquieted by organization."

Nice. Nietzsche was a smart dude. It says a bit about laws of human attraction.

We see this "disquietude" a lot as pro road racing's power-elite collaborate for critical, GC-decisive breakaways. They exert collectively in order to separate themselves from the peloton, but they're always restless and looking for an exit door, whether that be weakness in each others eyes or a 12% grade, etc. The old timers say racers used to work together much more amicably than now. Maybe it's a sign of top-heaviness like "super-squads", er doping in the peloton. Perhaps egos (read: paychecks) are big enough now that they can't even collectively exert to escape anymore. Breakaway "parity is dead", they say.

So re. Divide racing, yes, to some extent individual style can boil down to whatever satisfies our respective instincts; whatever animates us. Though, SS does sort of legislate out "organization" and emphasize individual mastery/solo prowess, yes?

Just so we're on the same page - when I referred to "PE" I meant perceived exertion, and when it goes up your legs are less happy for sure.  It sounds like you've used in a different (opposite) sense.  An important distinction to understand your post here...

Doh. I assumed you meant PE, as in Power Endurance; an important measurement for TD. RPE, (borg's scale) would probably be a 6 (breathless but still able to talk).

I should clarify that when I speak of this tempo stuff, it is not to say that a rider doesn't have plenty of interval experience thrown in. Storms, headwinds, sprints for closing stores, etc. There's plenty else going on, but the goal is steady gunning.

It would honestly be tough to make sense of it all anyway as sustainable power is sensitive to altitude.

it would be so cool to look at an entire ride file. Come on, DH. Hook us up. Be the man.

I'm not sure what Matt's love zone really is?  69% of LTHR or power at LT, and what that definition of LT is...and HR response will almost certainly fall throughout the event even though power may not.  I think for GDMBR racing PE is going to be king.

Sorry: love zone = ~69% power at LT.  69% of LTHR would be ridin' a touch too easy, me thinks. Certainly all those numbers would float...and, back to the 'heightened experience' conversation, the tuned-in rider intuits these metamorphoses and adjusts. PE (a.k.a. inner-diesel), goes sky high following the recovery phase (~day 5 for me). That's when the racing really gets fun. Even on a geared bike the inclination can be to climb out of the saddle for like 15-20 minutes at a time. You feel pretty strong (physically). And as a result, one can sometimes overdo it in that second trimester or "tri-semana", rather. Del Norte, CO often marks the point at which it catches up with me. I begin to sleep a bit more.

Also, from someone a bit sensitive between the pipe ends, probiotics help tremendously in that regard.

to add to to another thread that has come down to poo, dehydration is probably the biggest culprit in Divide constipation. the nightly recovery process, complete with night sweats, is insane, requires more water than you can comfortably intake without waking up too pee excessively. expect morning dehydration to be part n parcel. You just get on top of it as soon as you can.

Marshal, the jarro are pretty cheap. capsules. you can mix them into a drink if you break em apart -- or whatever. Most important is GI health in the months of lead-up. Once the race begins you're really not going to do that much but maintain. I recommend lysine intake prior as well.

If I was going to attempt TD, nutrition would be at the top of my concerns.  This year I started using food enzymes and probiotics during events to enhance GI function.  The results were actually quite astounding - and consequently I was able to put down a lot more calories in any given period of time, and also burn more over long durations - ie, faster racing.

For something as long as TD the energy in is going to need to be close to energy out.  Not precisely...but close.  You can dig only so much hole and keep going for 2700 miles.

Marshal, if you still have your power meter you can do some quick math to get close to knowing where this balance point lies.  Figure ~ 2k Cal/day for metabolism, then use kJ roughly equal to Cal expenditure.  Can you consistently eat that many calories/day for 3 weeks?

I've always carried these shelf-stable probiotics during the racing. Yogurt's good too as well as taking in as much ginger and garlic as you can stomach. I also bolus up on intestinal health before hand.

Re. weight, a little gain b/f the race is good, but not so much it affects fitness. Eating is one of the most fun aspects of racing the Divide. I have averaged between 5-10lbs of weight loss annually. Muscle loss in strange places, such as your upper body occurs as well. Freaky stuff. king size Pearson's peanut rolls are my snack of choice. 700 calories in the big ones plus plenty o protein and they weigh nothing.

I may be way off base here but I think the less technical nature of the TD route (vs the typical ST with hike-a-bike required routes I have done) will play to my advantage.  I hope I will be able to better control my effort/output and hence stay closer, but to the right side of that ‘edge’ where I overextend and shut down the stomach

Don't underestimate the toll that hours on end of higher (than singletrack) cadence brings to bear, but yes, a different beast and easier to get food down. Eating in the TT bars is very possible on many of the surfaces. I like to describe a steady-gunning Divide effort as chilling in the "love zone" at 69% of LT. It's all you need to go 18hrs long n' strong. Also, consider the ways you can make your body more fuel efficient. Fat content is obviously key and slight overdressing to maintain core temp conserves calories too.

The parting phrase "two orders of chicken tenders with fries to go" has been a recurrent and successful mantra for me. That is, of course, after I've ordered my eat-in entree(s).

Wouldn’t it be just as fast or even faster to lay up a few hours early in the hotel room and then just leave early?  Ie: the total time stopped could be the same or even less but with better recovery.  Would this not be the correct chess move in some cases?  I am not saying you ‘plan’ on it but take advantage if it falls your way.

You'll come to conclusions about what your own circadian rhythm will be out there. I suggest you arrive at it quickly and stick with it. The race is too long, too painful to be mixing it up too much. train the machine early, let it do it's thing and it will be happy. happy machine =happy mind.

Divide night riding is never as efficient as riding during the day. Especially at average speeds in the teens to 20s. It's too scary cuz you really can't see that well, that far ahead on flat roads and epic downhills (unless you have a heavy light). It strains your eyes and beats up (vibrates) the body more too. The returns are pretty diminished after dark unless you're waiting for a road to dry up due to a t-storm that halted you in the afternoon. The one exception is pavement. See the sleep monster thread on the forums. These issues are even more pronounced in a grand tour than a sprint race like the CTR. Once we've amassed a big enough sample size, I'd like to do some trackleaders analysis on avg. speed post sundown.

Unless you are attacking someone or trying to finish off at AW before the heat of the day, generally plan to ride from 5am to 11pm. That's 18hours. If you don't eff around during that shift, you'll get your work done. I promise.

The big question is with the kit you decide on: It's getting dark, it rained earlier so it's cold and threatening more rain but it's only 8pm. Do you roll out of town to keep riding since you just finished a meal and resupply? Is there an item you did or could have brought that would make you comfortable with continuing on vs staying in town?

That's the question. If a 1lbs down bag vs an emergency bivy gets me (personally) back on the trail then I think the extra weight is worth it and makes you faster. Everyone has different fears and reasons to hesitate, those who have raced multidays have a big advantage from this point of view because you've got a little taste of what those are. And some guys are just super tough! I'm not sure I can really be included in that category.

Marshal, the GDMBR is not the CTR. There is very little opp. to get caught above treeline.

IMHO, the toughness Chris speaks of is displayed at the moment one is confronted with the option to motel it; at the 'choice' junctures (usually in towns). If you make it past this and out of town, the survival part down route in the backcountry will take care of itself--no matter how not conducive to good sleep or resupply it might be. You have no choice, really. You bivy. You cope. Part of toughness is great physical strength/endurance but just as important is the unwillingness to be swayed/influenced from gobbling miles no matter what. This is where my talk on unclutter and no concessions come from. Eliminate the 'tough' choices and you have no choice but to be tough--because ultimately we all have that capacity. And therein lies the beginning of the 'heightened experience' and one of the more beautiful elements of racing a grand tour. Ask of yourself earnestly with faith to go bigger than you've ever thought possible. When/if you respond and break through to the next level, the possibilities seem endless. As the Italians say, it's Belissimo!

Marshal, one last thing regarding mental. I am hereby calling you and anyone else out that tries to cite their age as a factor in their 'choices' on how to race a grand tour. I would like you to stop it. And get that nonsense out of your head. It's you against the course. period. Not you on an age curve, but you on a toughness curve. Cool?

Matt suggests adding additional challenges/constraints, even beyond ones the rules require.  Constraints like 1 hotel room stay, no music or calls home, all to heighten the ‘experience’.

A number of times I have leaked my personal preferences for how I choose to race the Divide, but I hope I don't come across as telling people how they 'ought' experience it for themselves. Primarily they're subtle hints for how to go faster, including my '1 motel room challenge'. I'm not imploring folks to 'seek out' heightened experience either, but do believe it happens to be a nice byproduct of eliminating clutter. You'll identify more with this supposed grand tour 'transcendence' by race day 11 or 12, next summer. Perhaps my ways will make more sense by then. DH is right that 'it will find you'. At the very least it will come knocking. Yet, I have seen too many people be very successful at hiding from it as well; often behind the creature comforts of trail towns. That's fine. No one says transcendence is required to finish. Certainly any which way but loose is correct enough. My point up thread re. asceticism was not that it is the answer for all, only that for each of us there are 'personal conditions' favorable for tapping into the awe of a grand tour race. It's up to each of us to figure out what those are, ipod or not. One thing's for sure: you will probably leave Banff thinking one way on many ideas/methods that you turn 180 on by Mexico.

My approach will most likely be one of ‘practicality’...

Touché. For my personality, i have come to discover simplicity to be at the root of practicality (in my Divide racing). To think practically is also to be mindful of the disadvantages of one's methods. This is important for making the adjustments JayP speaks of. Just be mindful not to be rigid about your 'practicality'. to be sure, your idea of it will duly tested out there.

[re. nightly motels] This seems like a ‘record setting, all or nothing’ approach, best suited for a top tier racer like John.  Also it would be very tempting to ‘pre-arrange’ support, ie call ahead and make reservations, just to be sure I had that room waiting after I had stretched myself to the limit just to reach said room.

Sidenote: I realize it's different for other SS races but, for the record, calling ahead for a room once the race clock has begun has always been a legal part of Divide racing (GDR or TD). Any arranging from any phone takes time away from pedaling and is therefore seen as a wash advantage-wise.

Anyway, it seems like there is a lot more opportunity to find a room than I had originally thought.

I would say yes, theoretically, however, race practicality-wise, no. The slippery slope is that bird in hand is better than two in flight, so If your mentality is to seek rooms out, it will far more often be the case that you stop short of your potential than get pushed into the night looking for a room well down route. in the depths of slumming, you will find your mind makes many concessions unless you are principled on certain things. again, not saying a motel every night is wrong, but they are never positioned on route so optimally as have zero impact on your race pace.

Preparation of fitness is far more important than all else once you get to a certain level of proficiency with multi-day racing.  A high level of fitness comes hand in hand with increased confidence, and that confidence will see you through the unexpected trying times that are bound to happen.

Yep, generally true, DH. I wish I could say this was true of the avg. Divide racer. To an extent we preach amongst our choir here, so some of my caveats don't apply to all, but this is a 'TD basics' thread and last year's race packed plenty of fitness not accompanied by BPing confidence. As Divide racing (and SS in general) ages, so might that ratio grow. Such is the nature of the longest or toughest events in the world. Everest attracts gapers just cuz it's the tallest. The austerity economics i suggest are as much to temper the kitchen-sink carrying greenhorns as they are to herd SS veterans.

Why add more challenges than the event already dish out?

Sure. I think we all here agree on that fact. Where we may differ is on what exactly are the 'real' challenges to racing the Divide as fast as possible? I've been out there enough to know avoiding trappings is half the battle to achieving max speed.

Sweet Dreams...I am internally debating my sleep system.  Bivy, Bivy +, Tarp, even a light Tent.  I am familiar with the +/-  of each, depending on needs and goals...I know it’s a nebulous question with many variables, but any thoughts, comments?

Sweet dreams IS a nebulous question--as in, "cloudlike". Too tired to dream early on and by the end you're "overtrained", HR is elevated, and sleep can be fitful, dominated by visions of turning cranks dancing in your head'. Think sweat-lodges.

Regarding sleep systems, my school of thought (mind you, it's one of several) is that consequences of under-equipage in extreme weather on the Divide are less punishing than they may seem. Because the idea is to complete the route as fast as your body and mind will let you, when i bump up against my sleep kit's limit to keep me dry/warm, i get up and move on. Obviously it can get really bad out there sometimes but i don't fear death or even pneumonia if i'm able to pedal on, so i accept it as part n' parcel of going fast.

It's also true that hotel stops tend to suck up a lot more time than camping. I was never more efficient than when I woke up to a 33-degree morning, ate a handful of chocolate covered espresso beans for breakfast and packed up my bike. I tended to dawdle a lot in hotels, especially if they had a washer/dryer or one of those waffle-making buffets.

Yes, yes. Efficiency = easier overall (on the balance). Though motels can help mask the pain at times. like you say, it is a trapping. I challenge folks in 2010 to see if they can do the whole route on one motel rejuve.

this is going to be a tough one for me when i get there... music, books, or no?

Regarding "No", this might be a little out there, but in Nietzsche's work, On the Geneaology of Morality, his third treatise deals with what it means to be an Ascetic for various groups like artists, philosophers, priests, saints, etc. To the philosopher (which us self-supporters kind of like to think of ourselves) he wrote, it's the "sense and instinct for the most favorable conditions of higher spirituality". If true, then ascetic Divide ride or not, go with whatever conditions you believe will be most favorable for "higher spirituality". If that means hip-hop pumping in your ear--or nothingness--then so be it. This can also be said for other trappings of the Divide like motels and the yearn for clean clothes or even calling home daily. If it takes you to that higher place, then it's good, right?

It's not a 'secret list,' just not something for general consumption.

I appreciate an open source approach. There is still sooo much to do/learn/suffer on the bike, in the race. prep's mental game pales in comparison. no reason to cock-blok

Imagine the torment John S., Mike C., and Pete B. went through those first couple of runs. 

inaugural GDR my kit alone weighed ~25lbs. Last year my bike + kit weighed ~34lbs

You must always be planning and changing your planning along the way to be most efficient and prepared for your next move. Chess game...

The adventure racer in you gets off on that! TD is definitely an AR.

The problem with tandem is paying attention 100% all the time, the concentration and focus gets interrupted with all the fun of having company.

I have to again publicly give you a proverbial arse-slap for mixing things up tandem. ultra racing needs twist as much as the next genre.

Never used a GPS and won't again.

I love it when you use the word again when speaking of TD.

Matt,
The profiles certainly aren't worthless anymore, they might have been in the past but now they're reasonably accurate. I always did a check of them before the next section and they were excellent for determining high points and guesstimating speeds.

OK. If they have been made more detailed since `07, that's great. I just felt (circa `07) that they fail to capture the difficulty of the climbing -and thus speed guestimates- between low and high points (read: the myriad rollers). If a rider does use them, my sense is they too could be imaged, reduced/combined onto a single half sheet of paper. for very detailed profiles of the climbing, you can study the major ones on the td.org route geographics page: http://tourdivide.org/route_geographics compliments of scott m. and andreas vogel

retro: regarding commercial svcs listed on the ACA maps, they can come and go with the wind so just b/f embarking, i highly recommend confirming existence and/or hours of biz with those services you KNOW you will be relying heavily on, particularly b/c TD overlaps seasonal hourly changes in mercantiles and diners. For example, Pie Town, NM is the last hurrah before Mimbres--or more likely Silver City (~200mi). As has been demonstrated in past racer-call-in's from there (read: crushed spirit, no resupply), it is critical to know the (odd) hours of the only two businesses for resupply there.