Hey Scott juts playing internet tough guy keyboard worrier, it's not for me to say. I would have thought not dying would trump all other rules, I talked with Doc about ruptured spleen's he said it's real easy to miss, no one should die and DNF themselves from life for the race.

I strongly agree with all these. They naturally extend to sleeping in kids playgrounds, shop entrances, train stations, bus shelters, etc. All these places are not meant for sleeping, encounters are awkward, and the footprint of the event is in people's faces. My guess is that if it's clearly mentioned on the website that the impact of the event on the local communities must be minimized to preserve the event, people will approach it differently (I hope so at least). Illustrating the problem with examples mentioned above would go a long way too - imo. The severity of this phenomenon goes way past the issue of emotional support from my perspective. It's existential for the event and a matter of reputation for the bikepacking community. I was long wondering (first when reading about TCR over here in Europe) if sleeping all over the city parks, benches, etc. is a good idea.

Well stated, it's unfortunate that this would have to be made a rule but here we are.

Agree, I also think that this is very important as it is a serious part of the event's footprint. Regarding this, what's the take on pre-stocking the water caches before your ride? It's not a great way to do an FKT from the fairness point, but technically it'd be OK if you were both a water fairy and the FKT rider. Then you could drink a lot . Not Lael's case I assume, just wondering for the sake of it.

Scott banned people from caching from the start of the event, that's always been a rule. However as the event grew someone has pre stocked and sometimes re stocked the Freeman rd Cache. And that's the only one you need. Hikers end up using way more nasty water sources then riders, the first cache she comes to is only 4 miles from a spigot and less then 14 past a flowing year round creek there's no reason for racers to take any water there. Also a lot of these boxes only went in in the last 5 years or so, we got by without them for years and no one had to have a 911 water drop. In the Outside article she claims to have been out of water for 5 hours when she met John out side of Picket Post, it's only 11 miles from the Gila River to PP and there's a rain water collector just off the trail about 7 miles from PP. After Picket Post it's a long run to Queen Valley and out of the way to go to the Arboretum or the town of Superior, but there's no reason anyone should have gone 5 hours without water.

And Welcome to Bikepacking.net I'm Tim, I'v been around here since the beginning. Being in the right place at the right time I got to be one of the first people to ride the whole AZT. The AZT is an amazing journey I hope you get to experience it someday. 

I would agree with that.  Don't forget the media company, who stirred up the internet mob in the first place.   I think they were both were aware of the rules and acted intentionally both in breaking them and how they responded after the * was applied.  I can't tell if Lael is just clueless or manipulative, or if she just doesn't give a shit.  Or maybe a combination of all three.  There certainly doesn't seem to be a lot of respect for the race or the bikepack racing community - or her fanbase for that matter, judging by the way they are being manipulated.  You can tell by what was said both before and after, and perhaps more importantly by what wasn't said.  There are a whole lot of things they could have clarified to Lael's fan base that would have quelled the outrage, but they chose not to.  The most amusing part is not pointing out to the fanbase that they are fawning over a FKT set in an event that is only a year old that only has 15 documented finishers so far.  That's not to say it wasn't an impressive ride - it definitely was.  But if you compare it to past ATZR750 results you can tell this FKT isn't going to stand for very long, asterisk or not.  I suspect there are going to be some very motivated racers lining up this fall.    

It's pretty obvious that the journalistic integrity rant is all part of the show. The Mob insist that pro's have to be exempt from the media rule as it's how they make their money. The mob will soon move on, they know they need to cash in while they can it can all come to and end real quick.

Mr Journalistic integrity can't quite get that you don't send the spouse of the racer to cover the story, and then has the nerve to call out someone whose not pimping for Social Media, for leaving money on the table by not having a IG following.  

The actual FKT for the AZTR is 6.6.6 if they want to say google takes you to the old site then the course is the 750 and the record is 666.

By this fall the Catalina Wilderness bypass aka Lemmon Drop trails should be an option. For those that followed this springs ITT on Trackleaders.com, two people did SOBO 300's and skipped the highway completely. That could be enough right there to say the 300 riders all now need use the trails no more highway. Scott and I always agreed that if anyone skipped the highway and finished in the event then the course has to change.

It was obvious Nate's record wasn't going to last the current 800 isn't that much different then the Four Peaks option from 19 and JD finished that in 8 days as I recall http://trackleaders.com/aztr19i.php?name=Justin_Dubois

It was nice that Lael was able to jump in and get the overall record.

Given Lael arrived late and left around 2am no one was likely to find her there in this case.  But a lot of eyes saw her "reportage" and might now think sleeping overnight in a PO lobby is a good idea.  Sadly a lot of people don't have the social awareness to realize they should be gone without a trace before anyone would show up in the morning.  It's only a matter of time before someone leaves a bunch of trash, or worse.  You only need to look at the Oregon Outback to see the worst case scenario.  https://www.bicycling.com/rides/a20022950/popular-bikepacking-event-killed-by-bad-behavior/.

Seems to me if we are concerned about protecting and minimizing the impact of the race this would be something that should be discouraged if not banned.  Not only does it seem like a bad idea, but may be illegal.  A google search "sleeping in post office lobby" pulled up Rules & Regs Re Conduct on USPS Property:  https://about.usps.com/posters/pos7.pdf .  Look at the "Disturbances" section, quoted below.   Seems directly applicable to sleeping in a lobby.   I know a bunch of post office lobbies around here (SoCal) are locked overnight now due to homeless sleeping in them.     

I don't think it matters what time it was, if you drove all night to get to your cabin and wanted to hit the PO knowing it's always open, and there's someone sleeping blocking the door. I know it's a stretch and no one showed up obviously. But by the link you posted it's a breach of a Federal regulation the same as riding a closed section of trail. And that's not just an * it's a DQ.

Fair points to bring up and when you have that many eyes on you, your example matters.

And that it was the first and only plan, you were able to get a room to sleep in up there in 06 right? She could have said I'll get up there and see what it's like, try to get a room, if all else fails then there's always the safety net of the PO. She said that at a Windy Point and then continued knowing it would be too cold to sleep out, and the PO is nice and cozy. And lets steal some juice while we're here, also felt staged.

Telling her story gets her the DQ no time recorded moved to the bottom of the results for the race that she signed up for. DQ'd with the * don't sleep in the PO and brag about it on line. 

The days of the RD being a nice guy ended with the Outback bs Evdog linked. In the years between Scott's mr nice guy rules and JOHN's RULE's a lot of BS went down, guys having at the cashes and still having to take water from hikers, and then blogging it for all the world, then we had someone drinking water with a clear save for a set person's name, clearly not public water taken hiker ends up calling 911, and I got an ear full from a trail angel at the State Line, we don't put that water out there for you racers!.

I have and will continue to support John as he has to make the tough calls.

And now Outside Online has an article.
https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/lael-wilcox-bikepacking-fkt-controversy-arizona-trail/

A fairly balanced reporting of the whole fiasco, wondering if John finally had a chance to make a little coin after all of the BS, do these mags pay people for interviews?

Making money off of bikepacking is one thing, but I might think some of the volunteers who built the trail might take issue with the idea of a for profit high speed run, and the trail angels who place water don't put it out there for people who have a friend meeting them at the same spot with a car. 

So do racers take over the Summerhaven Post Office as a normal thing? I have heard of people sleeping in the PO in Oracle but that's big enough to just take a corner. I was enjoying the video and getting past the idea that they were obviously driving to every trail head. Is this really the story the AZT bikepacking racers should be putting out. Too cheap to get a room in town, unwilling to carry warm enough gear to sleep out, you just take over a tiny towns PO?

My 2 shillingsworth

That does sound like a pretty exciting event to follow. A fast cyclist, but slower runner, vs a slower cyclist who's a faster runner.

I really like racing/events where there are lead changes.

The person who would be interested in this style of fkt would likely have to already excel at both running and riding technical trail. And once you decide for whatever reason to have a chase rig there's no point in carrying a full bikepacking kit so you should be able to travel faster.

John
Sorry you had to play the villain, hopefully the vid will be great maybe fully supported will be the next big thing in thru biking. Someone could easily get fkt for multi sport trail run/bike the full AZT with support, run the wilderness bike when legal, AFAIK it's never been done so all you have to do is be first to set the record.

Bigbuck Super whack decision to come on here and put down the guy who puts in hundreds of hours of work for no financial gains, and he's been beat by woman in every event he's been in pretty sure he's used to it.

If the professional bikepacker has to have content to generate revenue, the professional film crew had two years to figure out a way to create content within the rules of the race. The non event race the only exist on one persons blog.

The comments from the current as well as past women's record holders seem to side with the no media crew ruling.

If the rules regarding pro's vs amateur bikepacker's still need to be fleshed out then I am sure we have the right man for the job to figure it out. 

Yeah I missed it at first too, the new "New Colo" New from NM and Colo from CO..... ColoMexi maybe, looks like it might hit 3 different ranger districts the new "San Juan Carson Rio Grande 1000 that's a mouth full. This looks pretty good on paper, ?I?ve always dreamed of making my own route,? said the event?s organizer. If he does a good job and doesn't just cut and paste a bunch of random tracks together, best of luck to him. It sounds like the guy is putting in the work not just hand drawing a track and saying have at it, on roads that don't exist ala the one off Apache 200.

No doubt lots of people dream of making their own route and then making an event out of it. It's maybe even possible to use tracks from online sources and just let google or gaia trace out the major roads. But as ScottM informed the Apache 200 guy if your using random FS back roads you can't just trust a map and hand drawn tracks and then send other people out. It's a lot of work as Aaron knows, if it's a good route that people like it might take off.

my .02 Tim

Cheers, it's a FCFS sign up like Aaron said opens one month before, pay attention and you shouldn't have any trouble getting in.

As to the rider limit, the only way to make it work under Fed rules for forest lands is to keep the group small, they say 75. However that includes any shuttle drivers, that and for several other reasons a self imposed limit of 50 riders has been considered. The opportunity is always there, you can ITT at anytime. It's always the Race Directors call, some riders want two start days and don't see a problem with 150 riders out on the trail at the same time. Out of respect for the trail and other users groups I am against that. The trail is only getting busier and it's important to maintain a good relationship with the Association and others on the trail. The event has flown under the radar for 15 years now, the last thing we need is to get on the bad side of the ATA or others.

Tim

Way to keep the stoke alive John, the new rider limit may not go over well with everyone but it's the right thing to do.

Alex has tracked at Mormon lake so just batteries perhaps great to see.

And thanks to Dale for including mountain bikes in his vision.

Garrett's dot shows that taking the trail on the North Rim, compared to the road, is only about 4 to 5 hours longer
I'm surprised. I thought the trail would be much slower
Must be in great condition.

Once you get out of the Park the trail up there is pretty sweet and mostly faster rolling in general. Inside the Park there's a bunch of steeper utility cut stuff but even that is mostly riding with minimal HAB. It will be interesting to see how the grand depart leaders do with it.

That was actually me wearing sandals. Alex might've too, but he camped right next to us and I believe he was shoed.
Congrats to the finishers and good luck to everyone still out there.

Thanks for the update, I wasn't sure who we saw in sandals but it got our attention. Considering the trail conditions and that so many had gaiters or full pants on the sandals took us aback.

Glad to hear things worked out and you had a good ride, you had us wondering when you took off out of Ptown on the original route. It's happened before that someone loaded all the tracks available and got off course on the wrong track.

Older cars rock, you can actually work on them.

Tim

SPDs or flats?

Too shocked to look closer but the sandals look thin and basic nothing fancy with clips must have been flats.

Did Alex Stephan really ride the Canelos in sandals?

Saw it with mine own eye's as he left Parker.

An interesting turn of events for those two, good for them respecting the closure time. John or Scott, wouldn't the riding more AZT clause have allowed them to continue north from Ptown and rejoined at Hog canyon. It can't be faster and if it makes it possible for someone to continue in active mode it would possibly ensure that riders aren't tempted to push the closure time.

Interesting...

Indeed.