I will offer a few observations on some of these bikes. I too have an El Mariachi and love it for everything. The versatility of the design is fabulous and it is very comfortable for long days in the saddle. It is my bikepacking setup presently but I take it out to the local trails pretty regularly. Current setup is a 3.0 Knard in the front and a 2.4 Ardent in the back with a rigid steel fork (Firestarter) and a Jones Loop H-bar. But I have had it set up a number of different ways and not even scratched the surface of what is possible. So. Much. Fun. So, I would agree about adding it to your list.

The Surly ECR is a dedicated off-road touring rig and from the reviews I have read, people don’t necessarily like it for regular riding as much. The bottom bracket is quite low and it doesn’t lend itself as much to unloaded trail riding. Beautiful bike though. I just think it is more specialized than you may be looking for. Here is a link to a comparison of the ECR and the Krampus: http://www.pedalingnowhere.com/gear/surly-krampus-vs-ecr/

The Surly Krampus on the other hand rides the same rubber as the ECR but is more oriented toward trail riding as far as geometry goes (higher BB and all that). And plenty of people use it bikepacking as well with great results. I think in contrast to the ECR you could run different bars and/or a few mods to make for a more comfortable long distance rider and be more successful than trying to make the ECR a daily trail rider. I would keep it on your short list.

The Horsethief is a bike I have admired from afar along with the Spearfish. FS is very comfy in general if you have not ridden them before and this bike has a reputation for going the distance. I think it would make for a great touring rig. The downside being that with full suspension you do not have as much space for a frame bag or numerous bottle mounts. You also have more moving parts which for some is a downside if heading out to the hinterlands or a setting where a blown shock could create big problems. That may depend on how long you envision your bikepacking adventures to be and how far from civilization you are headed. But this bike is well spec-d and so sports reliable componentry. In addition to the El Mariachi, I also have a full-suspension (Giant Anthem) which is a recent acquisition and my first FS bike. Going from a totally rigid El Mariachi (and having a bit of a purist snobbery) I was expecting to be more underwhelmed than I am. I love my full-suspension! Confidence-inspiring, very comfortable, surprisingly fast, nimble, etc. But I also love my all rigid El Mar. This is why you need more than one bike. Just sayin’…I have 4.

I have enjoyed riding some 29er+ rigs in a variety of settings. Super super fun setup and I am now a convert to the ways of 29+. But I am not sure I am ready to commit to any true fat bike as a FT rider. It depends on what you like to ride, but they seem to me like more of a specialty item – overlanding, sandy settings, beach riding, snow riding, etc. Regular trail riding, I’m not sure (unless you live in one of those more extreme settings). I like speed and my limited experience with fat bikes were not fast rides. They WILL ride over anything and are a great choice for select environments or trekking along the Alaska coast for example. Very stable and grin-inducing rides. But if I were looking for a regular rider, I would not choose a fat bike. Opinions may vary.

And Vikb's point is well taken. Despite the time I devote to planning and dreaming of bikepacking adventures, the vast majority of my riding is regular local trails. It does make sense to decide based on that to maximize your enjoyment. Better to have to adapt your regular rider for a bikepacking adventure a few times a year than have to adapt an off-road touring rig for regular trail riding every week.

Just a quick update on my little project here to bump this thread:

•   I have mapped the section from Pie Town to Magdalena and made note of what appear to be actively maintained cattle tanks as water sources (talking about actual metal storage tanks here and not what the maps call “tanks” which are engineered depressions in the ground that collect runoff. Those are notoriously unreliable unless it has just rained). I also noted any settlements or homes/properties that might be sources as well.
•   I have mapped the route from Albuquerque to Cabezon.

These two sections represent areas for which I do not have beta. The other two sections of the route are part of the Continental Divide Trail and the Grand Enchantment Trail and the data on this comes from Scott Morris who has actually ridden both segments. The routes create a large figure 8 which allows for three configurations (more if you are willing to ride some sections twice). The northern loop (beginning and ending in Albuquerque) is ~550 miles, the southern loop (starting and ending in Socorro) is ~350 miles (but gnarlier terrain) and the large loop (beginning and ending in Albuquerque) is ~750 miles.

The objective this summer is to ride at least from the Zunis to Albuquerque via Mt. Taylor and Cabezon peak. If time permits, I would also like to ride from the Zunis to Socorro or Albuquerque via Pie Town and Magdalena to verify that route as well.

Does time permit? That is the big question. The good news is that I am quitting my job so, yes, there may be time on the horizon (but not endless time – I do need to get another job). The challenge is that it is two to three months away and takes us into shorter days and hunting season. Still can be done, but does present some additional challenges.

Outside of available time, water is the biggest variable. I have been using the trail guides for both the CDT and GET to identify water sources. For the unridden sections I have been looking at USGS maps and comparing to current aerials to identify the cattle tanks. In Google maps you can get imagery from a variety of years so if I can see water in the tanks going back several years, I consider it a “reliable” sources and create a waypoint. Even with all of that, it still looks like there may be one or two 24 to 36 hour sections with no water access. I am thinking that I will need up to 8 liters of water on those stretches. Water is heavy, but dehydration is worse so I am erring on the side of caution. With this weight, I am also anticipating an average daily mileage of 30 to 35 miles. There are some vast open stretches that may go faster, but I am also trying to account for wind and unexpected developments (like getting a little lost). I may revise that down just to be safe and then be pleased when things move along faster than expected.

So I am looking at September or October to make one or both of these journeys (Zunis to Albuquerque = 3 days, Zunis to Albuquerque via Pie Town/Magdalena = 8 days). PM me if anyone here has interest. I will reach out to those who expressed interest so far when I have firmer dates.

I am really excited about the possibility of establishing this as a designated biking/hiking route. And as has been noted, there are opportunities to link it to routes further north as well. I really think our state has been missing out on potential recreational tourism potential by not having something like a Colorado Trail, Arizona Trail, Idaho Boundary Trail, Idaho Hot Springs Trail, Pacific Northwest Trail, etc.

Thanks for suffering my ruminations.

I use my iPhone as a GPS unit. It works great but you need to be sensitive to battery use as others have noted. I use Gaia GPS as my app which allows one to preload maps in the phone. That way I can turn off cellular, wifi, etc. The phone can always get a GPS location but if you haven't preloaded the maps it will not be able to stream the map data if no cell signal is available. You will just be located in a blank grid on the screen.

FTR the SIM card option does not work if Verizon is your carrier (the case for me). Will work for AT&T users.

I actually just upgraded my phone and so am now using the old one just for GPS. I have no data plan so it's really just a glorified iPod. But it does get GPS signal and as long as I download maps when I have wifi, no problem. Gaia makes this easy.

I also have a battery charger I carry with me. It's made by "Trent" costs $35 and will recharge the iPhone 5-7 times before it needs charging itself. It's about the size of a cigarette pack but square. There are others available, some that use regular AA batteries.

Another useful app is PDF maps which you can use to preload USGS maps that have geospatial data. That way it will locate you on the map when in the field.

Both apps are free though Gaia has a pay option for additional features. With the paid version you can also print maps of a predesignated route. You can also create routes using it even with the free version. They export as both gpx and kml files so can be shared with most any GPS program/unit.


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I got my handlebar harness and frame bag from Greg Wheelwright at Bolder Bikepacking. These were two separate orders. The harness I just wanted to support a small producer. For the frame bag, I wanted to have the straps located in specific areas to accommodate my top tube bags. Because I had a positive experience with Greg, I went with him again. I have no regrets!

While I like to promote the work of small producers, one thing I appreciate about Greg's work is no labels. But I am kind of an anti-commercialist, so...

I also posted this over on MTBR in the Bikepacking and Bike Expedition thread. Its a bit of a lively conversation...

http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/petition-bike-access-wilderness-study-areas-recommended-wilderness-areas-969175.html#post11968130

Thanks for promoting this issue, Scott. This would be a great advance.

Awesome Scott - thanks for chiming in!

Thanks for posting that. A little while back I had also contemplated a border-to-border ride which then got whittled down to going from Cimarron to Tierra Amarilla. Some of that route lines up with what you have here. South Boundary Trail was part of it, for example. Having ridden that trail, that initial climb from Angel Fire is a real bear. I can’t imagine doing it loaded with gear. But worth the HAB to make that ride into Taos!

And you are right that these two ideas could be combined by connecting from Cebezon to the Valles Caldera. Monster Loop NM! Getting back from Taos or even Santa Fe by bike appears challenging on dirt. Between the Pecos Wilderness area and Tribal land the options are few. I am ok with the Rail Runner and other public transit. I mainly like the idea of just leaving from home and not parking a car somewhere. But if you could complete the loop, then I think this route becomes viable as something that is promoted and potentially developed for recreational riding (again, like many of the trails other states have – AZT, CT, White Rim, Kokopelli, etc.)

I am up for beer but am slammed with work at the moment so I will be in touch when the dust settles and propose some dates. Will PM you.

I just joined the GET listserve about a month ago and it is indeed a good source of info and question-asking. I recommend it for current conditions. Folks are definitely hiking the trail now and making current reports on conditions.

Yahoo groups page is here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/grand-enchantment-trail/info

You do have to request and be accepted, FYI. Took about a day to be processed.

[The Route:]

The Route: Here is a screen shot of the roughed-out routes. Those are the Sandias on the eastern side of the route and Albuquerque to their west between the mountains and the river. I have these routes as gpx files, though it needs a good deal of refining (especially between Pie Town and Magdalena).


 
Riding Conditions: The majority of this riding is on old jeep or logging roads. Most of these are not actively maintained by the Forest Service (though a few are) and so it is not a gravel grind. Some are being absorbed back into the forest, others are used enough by hunters and 4X4 people to keep cleared (they will remove felled trees and the like) and still others are mainly used by wildlife. There are some sections of singletrack in the areas I have explored and I have found a few animal trails that cut through little valleys that are really fun to ride. It’s a mixed bag with a little bit of everything.
 
The burliest sections will be Mount Taylor (at over 11,000 feet), the Gila, San Mateo Mountains and, if doing the shorter route, the Sawtooth Mountains and surrounding forestland north of SR 60. Other challenges include some very open, exposed and monotonous grasslands that, if windy (its New Mexico and we usually have wind…), can be a real grind.
 
Food and Water: Water sources consist of springs and cattle tanks, some of which are not reliable. Except for down in the Gila, I don’t think there is an active stream on the entire route (except for the Rio Grande). I have gathered guides and other info from the Grand Enchantment Trail and the Continental Divide Trail both of which have detailed information about water sources. It does pass through a number of towns to refuel on food and water, recharge a phone, etc.

Add some peanut butter to your bread and jam. Otherwise, there is hardly any protein there. I am fond of peanut butter and honey on tortillas because its easy to carry and fit in my bags. There are some good threads on food in here somewhere, too. Some great ideas, including smoked salmon and other easy but scrumptious delights that are packed with what you need to go the distance.

Other essentials include your bike repair kit and first aid. Depending on your water sources, water filter and/or tablets (such as Alta Mira) are essential. TP, too (or use nature’s wipes…)

For water amounts, I live in a very dry region and often do not have access to water for up to 24 hours. I have found that 7 liters is the least I can get away with for that time period. This is inclusive of making coffee in the morning. Probably should have more, but I haven’t died yet… Chart out your water access and try and figure out the longest period you will go without being able to refill and scale accordingly.

Lastly, I REALLY value a good night’s sleep, so I make sure I have what I need to accomplish that. For me, this means a good sleeping pad and fleece-lined stuff sacks I can turn inside out to make comfy pillows (I put one between my knees as I am a side sleeper). I also bring my melatonin.

Good to see there is a little interest. Trying to get some data up. In the meantime, I wanted to offer these links:

Scott Morris and Ezther’s trip riding the CDT last year. Just a fantastic read regardless. Partway down the page is a link to a .gpx file of their journey. This can be opened in Google Earth if one does not have any other GPS software: http://topofusion.com/diary/cdt-2014-diary/

Similarly, here is Scott’s info on riding sections of the Grand Enchantment Trail. There are links to .gpx files here as well: http://www.bikepacking.net/routes/grand-enchantment-trail/

If you open both the CDT and GET files, you can see they join in the northern portion of the Gila. If one rode from Albuquerque to Cabezon Peak (northeast of Mount Taylor) it completes the loop. A really big frickin’ loop (not to be confused with Santa Fe’s Big Friggin Loop…)

I have been working on routes for two large bikepacking loops that begin and end in Albuquerque (one being a shortened version of the other). They are roughly 550 and 750 miles each, maybe a bit more. These rides build on the efforts of Scott Morris (and others) to ride the Grand Enchantment Trail (GET) and the Continental Divide Trail (CDT) as well as my own desire to embark on a bikepacking journey right from my doorstep. The CDT and GET connect in the Gila National Forest and then diverge as one moves north. All that remains to connect these two routes into a loop is making the connection from Albuquerque to Cabezon Peak. The shortened version connects the CDT and GET from Magdalena and Pie Town through part of the Cibola National Forest, including the Sawtooth Mountains (north of SR60). This eliminates the journey down into the Gila National Forest. Otherwise, it is the same as the other loop.

I have a few reasons for wanting to explore these routes. One is simply the joy of charting out and then riding my bike from point a to point b and having fun while I do it – the same reason most of us are here. The second is seeing if one could establish a “New Mexico Trail” (or other suitable name). Arizona has the AZT, Colorado has the CT, why not establish something similar in New Mexico? Running it as a loop right from Albuquerque makes it convenient for people flying in from elsewhere. With so much public land (much of which is rideable, save for the Wilderness Areas) it seems a natural that such a trail could/should be established and promoted as a recreational tourism destination.

I have used the GPS files from Scott’s journeys and roughed out connectors for the unridden portions though work needs to be done to finalize these (in some cases I just drew lines where I guessed roads might exist and now need to verify/alter). There is also the issue of identifying reliable water sources. Trail guides from the GET and CDT have been enormously helpful for this but significant sections are not along either trail.

I am throwing out what I have now in the event this interests others and maybe I can enlist some partners in crime to chart this thing out and then ride it. I am hoping to ride portions this summer to gather more accurate data, but my job is extremely demanding, I have two kids and a wife I would like to stay married to so time is limited.

I will post a few images of what I have mapped to date so people can better see what I am referring to. In the meantime, what say you? Does this interest anyone else out there? Want to get together and share some beta (and beer?)

I have not ridden the Divide but I do have friends who live down in Alpine and ride regularly in Terlingua, Big Bend, etc. I know for that terrain they are fond of hardtails or short travel full suspension bikes. I think bearing in mind what you regularly ride is probably a smart idea. For all the fantasizing about time in the backcountry, I don’t find myself out bikepacking nearly as much as regular weekly riding in my area. So for me, if I were to have only one bike, it makes most sense to get one that will serve local trails best. I think a hardtail might be the best compromise between the two uses so that you can take advantage of the extra carrying capacity of the hardtail’s larger frame on trips but still have something that can handle your regular terrain with grace.

Thank you for that!


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Found it!

Not my video:
https://vimeo.com/91492726

The Lite version does not have a boxed foot area, 3/4 side zipper or cinchable hood. They also say they used "a lighter weight material" than the Escape but I am not sure what that means exactly.

I have the regular Escape Bivvy and love it. I have used it alone on hot summer nights, with a 45 degree bag on chillier nights, and over a 20 degree bag when there was blowing snow and rain (sleeping under a tarp). It has been a good performer. I am a little worried about wearing a hole in it over time as it seems that could easily happen, but time will tell. To date, its been great.

Definitely been to the hot springs. Such a gorgeous area! Have not checked out the Conejos however. There is just so much to explore here but time is scarce at this point in my life. Busy job and school aged kids.

Back to the topic at hand, I am going to try and find a video post of someone bikepacking with two dogs. Looked like a blast!


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My parents were from OK though I haven’t spent a lot of time there myself. I know the area you are talking about. We have done a lot of car camping up in there and I have visited the hatchery site as well. You are right that the forest road network is pretty vast. You can actually drive (or ride) from Fenton Lake all the way to Cuba which would be an interesting adventure as well.

I'm in Albuquerque. The backpacking trip with the dog was in San Pedro Parks near Cuba. So. Much. Water! It was great to travel so light. The dog was great. Chased some cows which was scary as they are so burly. Also came upon some lady horse folk but she behaved herself more or less and they were very cool. They had been camping by horseback up in the wilderness area as well.

I have a file for some routes around the wilderness area that would make a great bikepack and not require carrying all your water (courtesy of another NM rider and poster here). Also, we have some land out in the Zuni mountains which is where I have mainly staged bikepacking from. Chain of Craters area and El Malpais area too. No reliable water sources out there. Its like the moon.

Feel free to PM me.