I would definitely lean towards cutting the strap off of the framebag and keeping the gas tank one intact, or close to.  Looks like you could cut the framebag strap down to 3/4" wide or so.  I've never seen velcro fray, so you won't have problems with that.  And I've sometimes run my framebag without a strap there at all and had no problems (I undo it to put my bike on my bike rack and forget to put it back sometimes).

I say fill up the framebag without using that strap at all and give it a ride around.  I bet you'll have no problems.

I feel the same way.  Currently trying to build up to 60 mile days by October so I can do the Coconino stage race.

But I'm planning on doing a trip much like you describe, in Idaho, in August - 30ish mile days, riding either the morning or the afternoon but not both, and bringing fishing gear.  Using parts of the Idaho Hot Springs route but making a shorter loop out of it.  PM me if you're interested - we're playing it by ear, since that's right in fire season.

I use a 6L drom (the original black one) in my framebag (custom bag for a pretty standard 19" 29er frame).  If I have a really long water carry and want to get it as full as possible what I'll do is undo the velcro on my top tube, put the drom in the bag, close the zipper, then re-do the velcro.  Gives you that extra little bit of space.  I think I can get 5 liters or so in there.

I also use the dromedary hose attachment so that I can run a tube out of it and drink directly.  If you're interested in that you should look at getting a hydromedary kit - it's a dromlite plus hydration tube for much cheaper than they would be separately.  They're just available in less useful sizes, unfortunately.

Racingguy04:  That sounds *rad*.  I want to find someone who wants a stripe through their framebag...  It could pass through the framebag *and* the downtube bag, and maybe a seatbag too.  I think that would be really cool.  The math would get complicated doing it on the seatbag, but in a fun sort of way.

The benefit is that it looks cool, and nothing else.  In the past I haven't really cared about how my gear looks, but now that I sell it I want a flashy, conversation-starting kit.  So two-tone it was.

As for the seam failing, I would be amazed if that ever happened.  It's a flat-felled seam in Xpac sewn with bonded nylon thread, so it should last the life of the bag.  As for water ingress . . . I agree it's an issue.  But I don't think it's any worse than what you get from having a zipper on there and velcro attachments anyway.  Framebags are a very hard thing to make fully waterproof, even using Xpac, with or without the extra seam.  My philosophy is that framebags and seatbags should be water-resistant, and panniers and handlebar rolls should attempt full waterproofness.

Nice bags, and thanks for the detailed response.  I like the idea of a more elastomer-like substance, although sourcing something like that in reasonable quantities could be problematic.

As for sewing it on permanently, the only problem I see is adjustability.  If I wanted the entire daisy chain to be usable, it would have to go the entire length of the bag.  Also I think if it were wide enough to work for something like my H-bars there, it would be too wide to work on some flat bars without the foam hitting the brake levers.  I wonder if there's an intermediate solution that still hides the foam.

dream4est:  Do you have any pictures of your design?  I'm always interested in new ideas.  Personally I've used different methods of attaching stuff sacks strapped to the bars without spacers, but I haven't designed anything specifically to work that way.  This works better than any of methods I tried to strap things on without spacers.

FWIW I've now taken it on singletrack and it is fantastically stable (although since I have H-bars my 4 points of attachment are not a fair comparison to a normal roll).  I rode about 30 miles on dirt roads and 30 miles on singletrack with my sleeping bag inside and a pad strapped to the outside.  No discernable movement or affect on steering at any point.  So functionally, the spacers have worked great so far.  The only concern I now have is the longevity.  These have worked much better than other foam that I've used, but there is still a little bit of compression.

Also I edited the post to make it clear that the first photo isn't the spacers I'm referring to.  I agree that those look terrible; they were what I put on it for testing while I looked for something better.  IMO the spacers from the knee pads look fine.

Not sure just yet - I'm currently finishing up my orders so I can take a break for the summer, during which I plan to do a lot of riding and some R&D.  So I'll be selling again in late August with an updated product line.  But it would depend on whether it had interior dividers or not.  I can send you a PM when I have a better idea.

Revisiting this thread . . I love how I completely ignored your height in my 29er zeal in my earlier post.  I would actually recommend 650b, but this is a super personal thing.  For me, the comfort gained by smoothing out the bumps with larger wheels would be worth the hassle of sourcing parts while traveling.  Your mileage may vary; plenty of people think 26ers are great.  I personally would be fine never riding one again.

Sourcing tires is probably the biggest worry.  Get a good wheelset and you shouldn't really have to worry about other parts of the wheel very much.  But you would have a hell of a time finding replacement tires for anything but a 26" in much of the world.  You'd have to ship them in as you go and make sure to change them before they get too beat up.

Depends on how small your stuff packs down.  I can fit everything for an overnight in what you see in this picture, no backpack needed - sleeping bag and pad on the handlebars, water and some food in the framebag, food and layers in the seatbag.  I didn't bring a tent on that ride but it could fit in my handlebar roll if I used my summer sleeping bag, or on top of it otherwise.  With a gas tank and jerry can I could probably go another day or two, with feedbags probably 4-5 days.

For longer trips I am going to bring a fanny pack instead of a backpack.  I haven't made it yet, but it will be able to be packed down really small into one of my bike bags, so that I can pack it away after the first day or two of a ride.

For the Idaho hot springs route this summer i plan to just bring panniers, because I don't want to try to carry beer in bikepacking bags *or* in a backpack.  

If I do bring a backpack bikepacking it'll be just a small camelbak, I don't even know the size of mine.  Maybe 10-15 liters?  Just for layers, and i would try to put most of my heavy stuff on the bike.  This is just me though - I'd really rather avoid a backpack at all, and I put quite a lot of effort into packing small (silnylon tent, Ti mug instead of a pot, tiny dropper bottles for aquamira, etc).

Yeah, there are like 4 or 5 shops in Flag.  They're all pretty good.  St George, Utah would be closer, though, so I would try there.  Or possibly Moab.

I would also ask at Escalante Outfitters if you haven't already, they are pretty friendly and could be helpful.

I also feel like there must be a way to get a derailleur locally in Escalante.  I mean, buying a used one off of whoever, you could see if anyone's selling a used bike, etc.  Any 7, 8 or 9 speed derailleur that isn't SRAM will probably work for you.

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe that most 8-speed derailleurs will work with a 9-speed system.  An 8-speed shimano derailleur should be easier to find . . .hopefully.  Escalante is a tiny town.

I forgot to talk about the seam sealing.  I've found that seam grip works pretty well with Xpac, with the exception of corners.  Any leaking that does happen seems to happen *through* the seams (it ends up wetting the grosgrain ribbon).  So instead of using grosgrain I folded a strip of Xpac over the seam and sewed it on.  Then when I applied seam grip I pressed the seam to the fabric so that it glued onto it on one side, then seam gripped the other side.  I haven't filled the bag up with water yet, but i suspect that this will be pretty waterproof.

My next experiment will be to seal Xpac seams with 3M 9485 transfer tape, which is still in the mail.  We'll see how that works.

So I wanted to share the handlebar roll I made recently, and also the option I found for cheap handlebar standoffs.  EDIT: I should note that the first picture is taken *before* I found the handlebar standoffs that I refer to.  So yes, it looks horrible, but see the last pictures for my current foam, which looks better and has been performing very well for me.

The bag is on the medium/small side of things, at 6.5" in diameter and a max packed length of about 20 inches.  That comes out to about 10-11 liters, which is just enough for my winter bag, and enough for my summer bag with a couple other things thrown in.

I decided to make it versatile, since I'm running H-bars right now but I don't know if I'll keep them forever.  So I made daisy chains on top of the bag, so that I can move the attachment points in or out.  Under the daisy chains are plastic stiffeners made from some thrift store placemats.

I have it attached 12 inches apart in four places on the H-bars, and it is incredibly stable.  Much better than my friend's roll that had straps about 6 inches apart.  Running the stiffeners and daisy chains out that far limits how tight you can pack it, but I don't see myself ever wanting it smaller than 12 inches wide, so it's not a big deal to me.

The only downside to the moveable straps is that they are a bit harder to use as a result.  The buckle wants to move when you tighten it, so you can end up with it up around the handlebars.  I haven't figured out a great solution to this yet, but if you're careful it's pretty easy to manage them right now.

And now for the cheap handlebar standoffs - a $4 pair of knee pads from Home Depot!  The foam is thicker and stiffer than a sleeping pad, and much better than what I was using before (which you can see in the first picture).  It's about 3/4" thick and cuts super easily with a razor blade.  I hold it onto the daisy chains with velcro loops (hence the holes cut into the pieces).

A side effect of the daisy chain and running H-bars is that I was able to put some shock cord on the top.  A great place for rain gear.  And none of the pictures show it, but I improved the straps to attach a sleeping pad to the front by trimming them and adding looplocs, so the slack won't hang down.

As promised, here are pictures of the downtube bag.  I didn't want to post until I'd ridden it on singletrack.  I was a little concerned about it shifting during rough riding, but that wasn't a problem at all.  I did an overnighter this week with about 30 miles of singletrack and I never once noticed it shift or rub on anything.  The compression strap is key.  The bottom is reinforced in case I ever hit it with the front wheel, but I don't think that will happen.

My next one will be slightly thinner (I was a bit limited in thickness by my zipper placement, but i could go at least half an inch thinner).  This one was 4 inches.  I also won't round it near the top I don't think.  And I have a sample of Rhinotek fabric coming in the mail; when i get a chance I'll put that on the velcro straps for added friction.

The interior pockets I made are ok; they could've been pleated more for extra volume.  It's hard to fit stuff in them. But I have some rarely-accessed items in there like a derailleur hanger, chain breaker, etc.  One thing I did that I'm pretty happy with is put velcro on the top to hold wrenches.  Seems to work ok.  But hopefully I'll just update my wheelset soon and won't need to take a 15mm plus cone wrenches with me anymore.

All said, super happy with the design.  It's a great location to store tools.  Packed full, this thing is heavy.

The first picture is it compressed with tools and a single tube inside.  The end of the compression strap is on a loop lock, so it can be dragged over to the other side so it doesn't catch on something.  The tension holds it in place.  The last picture is it fully packed with fully packed with no compression strap.

Selling my first ever framebag!  There's nothing wrong with it, but since I'm now sewing gear as a business I decided to make myself something that looked a little better.  Now that I've finished the replacement, I don't see myself using this one again.

Made of 1000d cordura with closed cell foam padding on the down tube and seat tube.  It was made for a 19 inch 29er frame, but would probably do well with a 18" or even possibly a 17".  I wasn't as accurate with sizing back then and it came out a little small.  If you're unsure how it'll fit your bike you can send me a photo of your bike with a ruler against it and I can take measurements and let you know how close it is.

Asking for $50 (including shipping to the US).

Sounds like the DT 350 is the ticket.  I think I had ignored it in my previous research in my zeal for 36 spokes.  I'll probably push the rear hub build back until mid-summer when I have a bit more cash to do it, but it sounds like a great option.  I really like the fact that you don't need a tool to replace a rear spoke, that's awesome.

I've never ridden there, but in regards to direction . . . check this site out!

http://windhistory.com/station.html?KDIK

You can click the months on the bottom to include or exclude them from the averages.  So you could just get the average from July, for instance.  Looks like in that month the winds come most likely from SSE or WNW.  So probably not a huge difference in which way you ride.  The site also has a map view where you can scroll around the country and look at all of the weather stations.... pretty neat.

That's an interesting issue!  Thanks for enlightening me.  And I get why normal racks won't work now.

That said, there are a few rear racks that might have potential; the Topeak Explorer Disc and OMM racks are the two that I'm familiar with.  Both racks go out from the frame before they go up, to accommodate disc brakes.  This might also accommodate your frame; not sure if you've looked into these options.  I have the Explorer Disc and I have to say that you would probably have to grind/file some of it off for clearance, I had to or it would hit my axle bolts.  Not a huge deal, but kind of annoying design in Topeak's part.   The OMM racks don't require eyelets, which is another bonus.

Another interesting one is the Axiom DLX, which might solve the problem because it goes straight *back* and then up.  I avoided it because the explorer looked sturdier, but it gets good reviews.

You could always leave a note on it with your plan; that would discourage at least some of your potential problems.  Any rangers who came across it would sure appreciate the note.