Hey, so what happened with the record pace markers ("ghost of JP", etc.) that we saw the last few years?

Best of luck and fun racers!

Glen

...and am I envious...

There are really no changes here from the original rules dating from the GDR.  Basically just do it yourself. I guess they are just going into more detail about what that actually means.  I've heard they get hate mail each year from relegated riders that blatantly and sometimes admittedly break rules.  The tipping thing is funny though.

Amen (except the tipping part).

The race is self policed, so to speak. Matt and Scott may be overlords, but should not be looked upon as authority figures to enforce rules. Racers should embrace the spirit of the TD, rather than try to game the 'system' and give them butt rash. This is a way cool thing we have going! For those who like/need a blast of racing ethics/rules reality, look up historical posts by Toby Gadd (purist - "Do It Yourself Dammit"). There you will find running threads re the ethics of the race.

Tips etc. example: With regards to Brush Mountain Ranch- Kirsten and Greg are true trail angels! Unless things have changed, they don't have a license for room and board for the summer racers, so be aware that your stay, laundry, and food there can only be compensated by 'donations'. Some racers in the past have taken advantage of them. Bad racers, naughty racers! Figure out what a commercial place would charge and donate accordingly.

The race has many rules/sub-rules, but DBAD is the main one to live by (Don't Be A Dick). You owe it to yourself, the other racers, and the reputation of the race itself to 'Race like Gentlemen/Women'. The only higher honor than finishing, is reporting yourself for a rules/ethics infraction should it happen.

Oops, getting dizzy up on soapbox, so end mini-rant 

 

Last weekend I had to 'Hike-A-Bite' at Pie Town : Took an entire hour to push fork thru frozen ice cream slush, and two pieces of rough and uneven blueberry and pecan pie.   

Met two bikepackers at Pie-O-Neer who started in AW and were heading for somewhere in Colorado - time limited vacation.

Be aware of cafe hours for the summer:

Pie Town Cafe Friday to Monday, 8am to 3pm Mountain Daylight Time
Pie-O-Neer Thursday-Sat 11:30 - 4 pm, or until pies are gone. No longer serving 'food', just pies.
The Pie Source Homestead Cafe, Mon-Wed:   9:00 am - 6:00 pm Sun: 11:00 am - 4:00 pm
The Gatherin' Place, 7 days a week 7:30 am - 6:00 pm

Am carbo loading for next year's race, so make us blue dot junkies proud this year!

Is there a store on the Bannack Rd where it crosses the Grasshopper Ck?(after Polaris) I've seen some references to it but would like to be more certain - there's definitely buildings there...

Nothing between Polaris and Lima. The buildings are probably the old Bannock historical structures - they were wiped out by flooding when I went thru in 2013. The passage from Polaris to Lima (98 miles) is fast - my time last year was 8 hours 45 minutes. And I'm 65.     You young whipper-snappers should beat that! However, if it rains....mud city!

Polaris: Ma Barnes country store has snacks, etc.. Located on north end of town (north of Montana High Country Lodge 1 mile, and off east side highway about 1/4 mile. Of course you must stop at Montana Lodge! Russ and Kathy will take great care of you - food, sack lunches, rooms if you stay overnight, laundry... And darn cheap too! The lodge is 1 mile north of post office, on west side of highway - they have a bike mounted on their sign, can't miss.

UK and ROI riders - check your passport.

This was flagged to me yesterday: http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/05/britons-flying-to-us-without-biometric-passports-could-be-turned-away

Have checked with the Irish Embassy, and yes, it's going to be an issue as now I need a new passport :/

Or..."Those who wish to travel to the country on a non-electronic passport must apply for a visa from the nearest US Embassy or Consulate."

May be easier than getting new passport?

Better to ask on the 2016 Tour Divide Preparation forum, under ultr endurance racing. Lots of CO people hang out there.

..."if you flat, add a tube, and keep riding with a bit higher pressure until you find a shop with stans and a compressor?     Maybe just one tube and a few patches?    (the peal and stick ones dont seem to last, get ones with real glue)"...

Concern for the extra weight gets less and less when you are sitting in the hot sun between Wamsetter and Steamboat (can you say ' desolation'?), fixing the fifth hole in your last tube after your tubeless went tubey. Go ahead, ask me how I know that!   

Hint: take a 29er tube, and a lighter weight 26", and lots of gluey patches - skip the lick-and-stick ones. Makes you feel better.

Depending on your pace...
Campspots:
Provincial Park at mile 62, pay the man!
Cabin after Elk Pass (Tobermary?) - free, first come first serve. Can camp outside cabin as well
Between cabin and Elkford, many free wild camp spots along road
Elkford: Motel + Lyon's campground on left a few blocks before store. Pay at tended shop.
Sparwood - Motel +  commercial campground
Corbin - can wild camp free right at end of pavement, start of Flathead Pass
Several free camp spots after Flathead Pass, before Butts Cabin
Butts Cabin - again 1st come...free. Also large camp spot across road from Cabin
Ram Wigwam free campground, at bottom of Cabin Pass (to left at bottom, look for narrow dirt road on right immediately after left), free, has rustic one-holer potty (no, can't camp inside as there is no room, I checked!)
This puts you about 4-5 hours to top of Galton Pass/border
Eureka - Camp at far end of town, city park, donations accepted, has bathroom w shower - eat at Jax Cafe
30 miles further, Graves creek campground and a couple (free) others on way up Whitefish Divide
Going down Whitefish Divide, Tukchuk Campground (I highly recommend the 'Hilton' there  ... warm and a unique 'atmosphere'
Several camp spots, wild, until Red Meadow Lake
Red Meadow Lake, free campground, bears did not eat me in 2013. To quote Matt Lee that year, "You did what? I wouldn't camp there - too many bears!".  10 racers in 2015 camped.
5 miles past RM Lake is Upper Whitefish campground
etc., etc.

And don't worry - bears do not bother bivvies or tent on days that fall between Sunday and Monday...Harrrr...

Go get 'em!

I did Elkford first night (thanks Lyon's !), and Ram Wigwam second night. No racers at Elkford camping (raining, and the others were made out of sugar, thus might melt  ), lots at Ram.

Maybe this isn't the place for it, but as someone who has never ridden any sections of the TD, I'm not quite sure why everyone says 2" or greater tires are necessary. Thanks!

Cross bikes and tire widths to match don't generally make good sense on the route. Last year I rode with two guys using cross bikes with < 2" tires = no bueno. One dropped/deviated off course due to the 'fun' factor.

Besides the extra cushioning, the fatter tires 'float' better over rocks and rough roads. Better grip as well. While you can ride the TD on even an old Schwinn single speed, sanity dictates 27.5"-29" 2"+ tires.

Now for the fun part: I propose a new category of bike, the "Walmart". Rules are simple - ride any bike sold by Walmart, making no changes to the bike. Must also have extra medical evac insurance

<meta name="authors" content="The Zen Cart&trade; Team and others" />
<meta name="generator" content="shopping cart program by Zen Cart&trade;, http://www.zen-cart.com" />

Look dude, this is NOT a forum to spam trying to sell fake watches...your other spam sent to 'Spirit of the TD' came through today as well.

So wise up and go away.

Compilation of some longer range weather and fire outlooks.

NOAA Outlook
The April-May-June 2016 temperature outlook indicates increased probabilities of above-normal temperatures across much of the continental U.S. Above-normal temperature are likely for most of the  west, from the central and northern rocky mountains across the northern great plains into the great lakes region, as well as most of the region to the east of the mississippi river valley. The chances of above-normal temperatures are highest for the pacific northwest, the northeast, and the mid-atlantic coast,
exceeding 50 percent in these regions.
 
The A-M-J 2016 precipitation outlook indicates a slight increase in chances of above-median precipitation across much of the southern continental U.S. and some increase in chances of below-median precipitation for parts of the
northwest and the western great lakes states. Above-median precipitation is most likely from central and northern California across the great basin and the central and southern rockies

NOAA TEMPERATURE
 
The A-M-J temperature outlook is similar to the outlook from a month ago, with some increase in probabilities, consistent with shorter lead times and dynamical model forecasts. All temperature tools predict increased probabilities of above-normal temperatures across the northern half of the continental u.s. Through the early spring, consistent with an el nino.

NOAA Precipitation
 
The A-M-J and May-June_July 2016 precipitation outlooks follow a pattern that is on average associated with el nino. Enhanced chances for above-median precipitation are forecast for A-M-J and May-June_July 2016 from northern and central California, across the central Rockies and southwest, into the central and southern great plains.

New Mexico Extended Outlook

October 2015 - February 2016.  The first three months of the 2016 Water Year were off to an excellent start until dry conditions redeveloped in early January. Unfortunately, February was even worse and March has been abysmal. Statewide precipitation for the October 2015 to February 2016 period averaged 146 percent of normal. January statewide average precipitation was 80 percent of normal and February was only 52 percent of normal. The addition of a dry January and February lowered the water year average from 188 percent of normal at the end of December to 146 percent of normal at the end of February (still impressive). This is the 14th wettest first five months on record.

El Nino conditions will continue through the rest of the spring, then trend toward neutral conditions during the 2016 summer. An El Nino advisory remains in effect. The outlook from April through June 2016 favors above normal precipitation across all of New Mexico. Below normal precipitation late last year and early this year increased the drought conditions (Setting up for fires in summer??)

Reservoir storage is below capacity at all lakes across the state. Average statewide reservoir storage was only 30 percent of capacity as of April 1, 2016. Despite above normal precipitation in 2015 and a sharp reduction in short term drought conditions, it is readily apparent that long term, hydrological drought is still very much with us.

Colorado Extended Outlook
Similar to New Mexico in precipitation, especially southern CO.

Forest Fire Outlook June through July [http://www.predictiveservices.nifc.gov/outlooks/extended_outlook.png]
Above normal significant fire potential will continue across the southern Southwest and expand into Texas and southern Nevada. (Note that the map shows increased fire danger in the southern half New Mexico.)

Predictive Services [http://www.predictiveservices.nifc.gov/outlooks/monthly_seasonal_outlook.pdf]

Northern Rockies:
Normal significant wildland fire potential is expected for the Northern Rockies Geographic Area for the Outlook period April, May and June through July.

Warmer-than normal temperatures and well below normal precipitation were the case in most areas east of the Continental Divide, but to the west it was more moist. Warm temperature anomalies of 10 to 15 degrees above normal were remarkable during the first half of March along and east of the Continental Divide. During the third week of March, a pattern shift occurred with cool and moist conditions Area-wide. Mountain snowpack has increased slightly to near normal in most areas as the weakening systems have been able to maintain mid-to-high elevation amounts. The only exception is along the northern Continental Divide where
snowpack is around 70 percent of average and has not fully responded yet to the cooler and moist conditions. Drought conditions are only slightly apparent in central Montana.

Latest long-range temperature and precipitation outlooks still maintain warm, dry conditions over the Area at least through April. By May and June a return to near normal conditions is expected. Mid to high elevation snowmelt should progress at an average pace this spring in stark contrast to what was seen last year.

Great Basin: Significant wildland fire potential is expected to be normal for the Great Basin Geographic Area for the Outlook period April through June. Current snowpack remains near normal region wide with the peak near 110-120 percent of normal over central Idaho and into the higher elevations of southwestern Idaho and far northern Nevada. Weather across the Great Basin will be governed by a weakening El Niño through the spring and early summer. The monsoon is expected to be on schedule this summer and arrive in the Great Basin by early to mid July.

Southwest: Normal significant wildland fire potential is expected for the Southwest in April. Above normal fire potential will develop beneath the Mogollon Rim and into parts of southern and central New Mexico during the outlook period May through June. Normal fire potential is expected for the month of July. A shift toward a predominantly cooler and wetter overall pattern is anticipated for the month of April. By May, a drier pattern will gradually develop overall, especially focused across the eastern third of the region (New Mexico central mountain chain eastward). Monsoonal onset should be on-time to somewhat delayed this summer and could be focused along and west of the Continental Divide with a significantly drier regime setting up across the eastern half of New Mexico eastward into Texas.

Rocky Mountain: Temperatures during March were above average overall. High elevation snowpack across the Area was near to slightly above average over northern Colorado and southern and far western Wyoming. Snowpack was slightly below average in southern Colorado. Long range outlooks for the April-May period maintain an normal to slightly wetter-than-normal precipitation regime and slightly cooler-than-normal conditions focused in southern and western portions of the Rocky Mountain Area, with precipitation near to slightly below normal in the far northern and eastern portion of the region. Average temperature and precipitation patterns are predicted for the June July period.

Whew! Sorry for the long post. I'm sitting it out this year - Ya'll have fun out there !

Where do you get the info. to put together an accurate set of TDR cue sheets?  If you start with the ACA cue sheets, you need modifications for alternate ACA routes that are not TDR legal and my understanding is that some of the TDR route is not on the ACA routes.  Where do I find complete info.?  Thanks!

You can pay for the complete set via the ACA site ($9-10 I think?), as I did last year. Beware that the cues are NOT all accurate, compared to even the main ACA route that the TD follows. The two 2015 changed segments are well documented via last year's cues released by Matt.

Personally, I made my own set from the ACA cues, then compressed them into readable format, then ignored them during the race. Hint: Follow the GPS route. Following cues is semi-miserable and slow. Also difficult to do when tired/dark/going fast. You will grumble at the mismatch between the bike odometer and the cue miles, and doing corrective calculations on the go when tired leads to showing up in Kansas somewhere. Best to keep your head out of the 'cockpit' as much as possible.

DO: Make a concise list of resupply points with mileage between. Invaluable for first timers. Check online for existing lists, and double check them against maps, etc..

She's only a long road ride, so have fun!

...but checking on other racer locations is double-frowned upon.

Checking on your OWN position is grounds for disqualification!   
                               

Maps:

Complete ACA Map set weighs 11.9 ounces, or 337 grams, or 0.000337 metric short tons

Absolutely no need for Canadian section: Trading post at 63 miles, Elkford 110, Sparwood another 30, nothing 'till you hit the U.S. border. For the first timer, maps are handy for supply planning, water stops, emergency exit routes, but not necessary overall. They are fun to obsess over during training tho ! I would definitely take a backup set of route cues, as the GPS may crap out just when you need it. Next time I will only take the CO and NM maps, as I have yet to, ahem, complete that part of the route. Up to now I've been...practicing..yeh, that's my story, practicing. Third time is a charm.

  GPS tip 'O' day: If you have a removable memory card in the GPS, make sure it has an extra electronic copy of the route GPX files, and any maps. That way if your GPS dies you can transfer data to the new very expensive GPS you buy on route ($500 for a Garmin 650 in Butte, for example - no, not my purchase). Also works if your cell phone has a memory card that fits the GPS too: Simply copy data to the phone card, but make sure the card data is recognized by the GPS.

Just my $0.02

You will cuss yourself with three bags. I use a main bag, inside which I put my pad, sleeping bag and some clothes in a dry sack, and tent or bivy in another dry sack. The main handlebar bag is cradled in a sling type mount, so I can loosen the sling straps and slip the main bag out - heckofa lot easier than trying to stuff things into a bag permanently attached to the bars.

Can't imagine bouncing along trying to keep three slippery loads tied to the bars!

Hi Everyone,

I'm a rookie from NJ. Let me first thanks all the people that have answered questions on these thread (I read all 19 pages . I do have a couple of questions on Navigation that I didn't find in this thread (if there are in another one on the board, please let me know).

Garmin 24K Topo maps (North Central & South West): Is anyone using these? Can they be handy? They are pretty expensive ($130 each) but being a rookie with no navigation skills basically I thought these should help in case I get lost. Another option would be to but the "t" version of the eTrex that comes with the 100K Topo maps for all US for $50 more than the bare bones version. Any thoughts?

Is this the right set of ACA maps to buy? -> https://www.adventurecycling.org/cyclosource-store/route-maps/great-divide-mountain-bike-route/sp/adventure-cycling-association-great-divide-canada-map-set/

Approximately, how big is the GPS file that we will have to upload in our GPS? The one I downloaded (I think it's last years) is only 1.9 Mb. Are we talking of Mb or Gb? I want to know because I want to see if I can upload it to a Garmin watch (910XT) as a GPS backup.

Thank you in advance!

No real need to take topo maps. The ACA maps are ok for getting 'unlost' Tip of the day is to show only the route line on your GPS blank background, no underlay of any maps. Makes route following much easier than looking through all the topo 'clutter'. When you are real tired and your mind resembles the power bar that you just ran over, you need clarity.

Make double darn sure that you download the '10k' version of the route, as the larger one will not work past about 20 miles out of Butte, when the route line suddenly goes blank. Ask me how I know! Fortunately had both versions, (Some recent GPS will work with the larger route version, I had a Garmin Oregon 450).

I did one trip with, and 2015 without, maps as underlays, and will never go back. You really can't get too lost, as all roads go somewhere!

Good luck

TP Strategy:

OK, first a confession...I took and entire ROLL of TP with me for the first few days a few years ago. Donated it to the Condon Market toilet. Dumb.

Trust me - plenty of napkins, TP at gas stations, windshield cleaner towels, etc. so you don't need to take more than a couple days worth. Wet wipes come in handy too. Besides, most of the poo times happen at rest stops, cafes, gas stations, etc.

Does a TD racer poo in the woods? Not often.

Also take a look at this site. They went much cheaper per day ($38/person/day)

http://gdradvice.blogspot.com/

$38 in 2007 is $44 in 2016. These two took 54 days to finish, and probably had the luxury to shop carefully at grocery stores on and off route. They mostly camped, which reduced motel bills. No mention of bike repair $$. Mine was > $600 this year, on the route. Yours will vary.

From my two attempts, just food alone was around $50/day. You will be fast shopping in expensive gas stations and small stores most of the time. My record was $48 of junk food at one gas station, and that was not the whole days feast. The biggest on-route cost variable is how often you motel up. From $50 in Lima to > $100 in Butte,and don't forget the $70 Lamplighter Motel in Helena!. Splitting a motel helps, but not if the guy snores all night (OK, I plead guilty!).

Most Federal campgrounds (BLM, USFS, Fish and Game, etc.) charge from $7.50 to $15. If you are 60 years old, you can get a half price 'Senior Access' card. Plenty of places to camp free tho.

Ride hard and wave that credit card like a sword!

Glen

Laundromats: How do the laundromats work - are they coin fed or does some machine takes notes and convert them to tokens? And the powder is in some other coin operated machine?

Does anyone know where some on-route laundry's are? (I think Wise River / MT High Country Lodge / Colter Bay / Pinedale / Brush Mtn Lodge have some).

Most motels have coin op laundry - you can sneak in if not staying there. Supplies are in vending machines. There are change making machines that take paper and give coins/tokens. MT High Country laundry is free if you stay there. Both Russ and Karen are great, and rooms/food are cheap for TD riders. Larger towns have stand-alone laundry shops, coin and/or bill operated.

But with enough forward speed or a good breeze, why bother?

Glen

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking about changing my bag maybe in Steamboat to something lighter weight. I have been in sub freezing temps in august in Montana. But I can also layer up. The idea of a liner is a good too.
I am looking at the big agnes Pitch Pine 45 deg. with 850 down tech insulation, super light weight bag.
Anyone else thought of this sleeping bag option?

In 2013 I used the BA Yampa, which is a 40 degree bag and a tent. Last year I used the green color Pitchpine bag, and a Moment Tarptent. Had ice on the tent two nights and with a hat and extra clothes never got cold. Most nights slept in gym shorts and silk shirt, used my Nano Puff jacket a couple nights.

Glen