Those AZT Association water tables are pure gold, especially the reliability ratings they include. Just because it's been dry doesn't mean that some sources will be unreliable.

"Tanks" can mean almost anything in the Southwest. They could be big earthen tanks that were excavated and fill with runoff, they could be metal or concrete tanks into which water is pumped by windmills or gravity-fed by pipes, they could be trick tanks that gather rainwater and store it in any number of ways, and you'll likely find other styles. But if they have water in them, that's all that matters. If that water is green or brown with algae or has a floating cow pie, it's still water. Treat it generously or filter it and you should be fine. But in some tanks, especially the earthen ones, algae and sediment can clog water filters very quickly, so I'd recommend a back-up water treatment option like Aqua Mira.

As mentioned above, do your homework when it comes to water. Never count on any of the water caches to be stocked - have a back-up plan for where to get water if a cache is unexpectedly empty, and plan to have enough water to execute that back-up plan should the need arise.

Thanks KRefs for the description and experience with that water. I do carry mechanical and chemical treatment, but never tried them on sketchy looking water. I'll look into a pre-filter.

However:

I have not yet heard of anyone who did _not_ use the Freeman cache, wether they needed it or not. Especially in the northbound direction, the water sources seem sketchy past Freeman until reaching ADOT. And, many who fill up before Freeman dump the dirty water when the cache still has some.

The policy says
3. No caches

So, why is everyone, including Krefs and Scott (http://topofusion.com/diary/2012/04/23/azt-300-itt/), using the cache? Personally, I can't make sense out of the policy in this instance, given that these 2 segments are the driest. A public cache that is stocked for the ones who get there first, only? 70 people would mean 70 gallons, that's not there.

What if I go to the cache and clean it out, to level the playing field? How many people would drop out? Would there be any 2 day finishes? Just kidding, but you get my point I hope. To me it seems that this cache should be maintained by the racers for this non-event, instead of pretending that it's not being used. Or call yourself disqualified if you do use it, to maintain the safety net aspect of it?

My goal is simple: To spark a honest discussion, and importantly a clear resolution, about this critical water point.

I loaded up on water at beehive well prior to freeman cache. Meaning I sat there and hydrated in addition to taking on 120oz of water. My intention was not to touch the cache at Freeman, but I did end up taking maybe 10-15oz anyway. Even without that, I would have made it to the tap at the ADOT yard in Kelvin. YMMV.

That said, I wouldn't count on anything outside of well established sources (stores/known spiggots) this year. It has been so freaking dry. It's more than possible to do the route without touching any of the caches. I recommend reading some ride reports (follow the hyperlinks on the AZTR results page). This will be valuable intel - and it's best to research this yourself IMO. If you're not sure, carry much more than you need. I had capacity for 240 oz but never ended up with more than 160. I'm a Phoenix native though and trained in the heat. I was commuting twice a week (including our brutal summer) with a commute round trip of 50-60 miles. Best of luck

You are the first one that I have heard to use the water there. Thanks for that report. I rode with a few fast guys last year, they all relied on the cache. AFAIK, even Mr. Schillingsworth uses the cache in all his reports (please prove me wrong!)  Here's a blog that describes the tank at Beehive well:
https://jansjaunts.wordpress.com/2015/03/09/arizona-trail-passage-14/

The ATA website says to get permission from the landowners before tresspassing and taking water. Is anyone doing that?

Assuming I'll be the last one of 70-ish riders through this area, I would presume that the Freeman cache will be ransacked by then. What are the options for water, other than carrying 8 liters?

I see water sources listed in the AZT water table, but having ridden twice through this area, I have never seen (nor looked for) any of them. Has anyone used anything else than the Freeman cache in the past? What are "tanks"? Do you have to climb up and into them? Is green water bad for you?

Thanks!

Just to be clear, this is about the sticker that someone placed on the official sign.

Would love to hear the pros and cons of this sort of stuff. I can't think of any pros, so someone please fill me in.

One ride in the eastern Cascades near Leavenworth, WA:
https://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2016/02/09/snow-bikepacking-in-the-cascades/

Another north of Whistler, British Columbia:
https://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2016/02/26/i-survived-the-hurley-in-winter-on-a-fatbike/

Enjoy.

Looking forward to a Highline report, too.  It's been slated for major rehaul for many years, it's just finally starting to happen.

Is there any change in the AZTR-2014-rev1.gpx due to this or other trail adjustments?

Evdog: That looks    I finally got out my map and followed your dizzying loops. Were you looking for something?   I had seriously thought about your Iron Pass/Warner Pass route, but we weren't even close to being prepared for that. Maybe it was the weather that day making it look more ominous, but it looked like it could quickly turn into an alpine hike-a-bike gone south when we saw the peaks from Big Creek. Maybe there will be a "next time" when I come with a couple extra layers and even more food.

Vik: I think I saw some trip report of yours from last year? Were you there with a couple little kids? This year's trip report looks amazing. I am sure glad we didn't have to deal with the flies that you encountered. The flies were bad down south on Gun Creek were we went for a little hike, but up north/west there weren't any (or none that I vividly remember).

Great writeup and pictures! You guys know that 3 days ain't enough and went for the whole meal deal this time.

Cheers!

Evdog, 6 days?    What route did you take? How were the rivers? Pictures?

Nice writeup on the Dixie - I heard bad things about a couple sections; it's good to know that they've been mostly cleared just now. It looks like a worthwhile destination.

Lee Blackwell and myself rode in the Canadian Chilcotin mountains for three days. It's remote and beautiful. Enjoy the pictures!
https://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2015/08/01/chilcotin-bikepacking-adventure/

Hi,
Maybe this will help: I joined all tracks into 1 route and put them here: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/7767424

There is one slightly odd section near Tahoe City (mile 125), which I am sure Sean will fix in some future release.

Regards,
M

The track on your site is still labeled "2014". Is that right?

Loved the video and blogs. Pretty hooked on riding this, but not sure that I am going to (cough, "can") race it. What's the best season to be out there and riding this route?

At the beginning of July, Lee Blackwell and myself rode a portion of the Ketchum -> White Clouds ACA route, and then invented our own route. We rode for 6 days, saw stunningly beautiful country. Ride report at
http://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/bikepacking-idahos-hot-spring-and-cold-creeks/

At the beginning of July, we rode some of the Ketchum -> White Clouds ACA route, and then invented our own route. Rode for 6 days, saw stunningly beautiful country. Ride report at
http://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/bikepacking-idahos-hot-spring-and-cold-creeks/

Just a couple pointers from my adventure last week:
The East Fork Salmon River is big. No way anyone will
cross that for a while. And, it's not necessary. There's single track
north of the track. We didn't find the beginning of the single track,
but walked through some sagebrush and then hit the single track. That
should be the route! You'll have to google-earth where the singletrack
begins.

- Germania Creek crossing is sketchy at the moment. Most likely possible to cross
in a week or so at the point near the trail crossing. I walked up and down
the river for 0.3 miles and there was no better spot. There are trees
down and across the river about a mile up, and there's a
fording point farther up, too, at which point it would make
more sense to take a different trail up into the White Cloud
Mountains, instead of bushwhacking back to the original Germania creek
crossing.

- There's snow at 9000+ feet. We talked to a couple mountain bikers
who, after circumventing Germania creek, did most of the White Clouds portion (Ryan and Bryan), and they encountered severe hike-a-bike trough snow for about 1-3?? miles up high as low as 8500 feet,
and lots of blow-downs at some other portion later on.

Summary: The White Clouds option is tough. Depending on conditions, experience and gear, you may need 2-4 days for the single track alone. 2 days being for expert mountain-bikepacking people, and 4 days for the hardy "i can do anything if I work hard enough" folks.

It's stunningly beautiful. Get out there and ride.

There's a small area closed due to fire restoration south of Stanley:
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/sawtooth/home/?cid=stelprdb5385065

Any chance you could shoot me over what you've got so far? I was hoping to start this Tuesday. Thanks!

Update: ACA contacted me within hours to help me out, and Casey, too! Thanks for helping me out last minute!

Exploring off the Mountain Loop highway between arlington and darrington is excellent place to bikepack, ride road that leads past COAL LAKE off mountain loop, fantastic views there - and ride to Monte Cristo!

A holy grail for a bikepacker in Wa state is doing the historic wagon route of the Naches Trail between 410/Rainier and Yakima.

I marked the Naches Trail on my map a while ago, but didn't realize it was such a destination!
http://www.nachestrail.org/
It just moved to my 'do-this-year' list. Checking the nearby Snotel site on Sawmill Ridge, snow should be melted at the pass (5000 ft.) by next weekend, if it's not clear already. Trail is closed to motorized use November 15 through July 15.

Does anyone know how busy the Mountain Loop area is due to the Oso re-route from the mudslide?

And on the topic of mentioning random trails: the Columbia Plateau trail is another one that's sure to keep one busy for a few days.

The PNT trail is actually pretty good for biking, as a large fraction is dirt roads that connect smaller segments of trails (at least in WA). But good information is hard to find. I have the Northwest Trail Digest and find it mildly helpful in general information - but certainly well worth the $10. If you have time, I think it'd be best to just get out and explore a few sections on their own to get a feel for the areas.

Last weekend I did the PNT in western WA between Alger and Hamilton. It was fun, but doing this exact route in reverse would be otherworldly because of the single track that goes down east from Mount Josephine. I was happy to have gravity pull my bike down while it barely fit under / between fallen trees. It took me 45 min to get down 0.8 miles and 700 ft. At this particular point of the PNT the guide book only mentions "The trail continues for another 0.5 miles up the ridge toward Mount Josephine." While this is true, in terms of the effort involved to go up, this may well be a 2 hour ordeal with a loaded bikepacking bike. Pictures, GPX track and such:
http://2wheeltrails.wordpress.com/2013/10/22/bikepacking-the-pnt-from-alger-to-hamilton-wa/

I have also ridden westwards to Blanchard Mountain and that area is a treat. Afterwards, there are lots of paved & dirt roads heading south-west to Deception Pass which I haven't explored, yet. I am sure it's beautiful when the flowers are out!