Update 3: The new bivy provides a lot of extra warmth, even open. I tested it by turning the heating down in my living room, reaching 17°C. With my MHD Phantom 32 used as a quilt, it was verging on too hot.

In high summer near the Mediterranean, I would possibly often wear long (or even short?) underwear and push the bag aside completely, just relying on the bivy for warmth.

Depending on the weather forecast and altitudes planned, I might also pack a quilt. I have a Sea to Summit Ember 1 that I don't see as a regular feature in a tarptent, but which seems a very comfortable and unfiddly solution in the bivy. It weighs just 410g - 270g less than my Phantom 32 in Large. Seen in that light, the system might sometimes even be a weight-saver after all (by about 210g).

Update 2: The Terra Nova Discovery bivy fits me, a regular-sized NeoAir XLite, a long Phantom 32 and some gear. I can lie on my side and even wear a down jacket without compressing the sleeping bag. Importantly, there is also plenty of room to use the sleeping bag as a quilt in warm weather or push it aside completely. Under the tarp, I can keep my head outside the bivy and be covered to my belt. The weight was overstated, according to my scales. The bivy weighs 520g. The bottom is tough enough to be used without a ground cloth - but I'm going to use one anyway, bringing the total weight penalty of the set-up to 60g, compared with my tent (1030g to 970g). That's including sensible stakes, the pole etc., but excluding bags (which would be the same in both configurations).

Pitching the tarp first in rainy weather, you can set everything up without getting the sleeping bag wet.

In dry weather: Set up the tarp and bug net, put the NeoAir in the bivy and lie on top. If it starts to rain, you can be inside the bag within 20 seconds.

Update: I have now purchased a Terra Nova Discovery bivy for an incredible € 79 (as opposed to 299) - sold commercially, but very slightly used. If the weight given by Terra Nova is correct, this will bring the entire system down to just over 1 kilo, making it just very marginally heavier than my UL tent set-up (SMD Lunar Solo, Tyvek footprint, pole, a sensible selection of stakes etc.). I think the Tyvek ground cloth will be advisable for durability with this bivy, and the dealer (who seems very competent) agreed with me on the phone.

So I'll try it out. Mind you, even it it works as well and as flexibly as I hope it will, I'd still agree with offroute and Smithhammer - a tent will generally be your better allround solution and need by no means be heavier or more expensive. Especially if you add up the full prices of the components I now intend to use: approaching € 480! But I have strong reasons for wanting precisely this system as my alternative option.

Incidentally, Gore-Tex Flo2 seems to be about the same material as Event, which is encouraging. See here: https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/2789/

How do you keep the rain out while letting air in? Usually that's done in a sitting position with one's head overhanging the opening. Laying down, a 2" storm flap simply isn't going to cut it.

I think the tarp would make enough difference in all but the most adverse wind+rain conditions - you would at least be able to keep your head outside the bag and sleep, obviously closing the zipper progressively if rain started to blow in too far. If a real storm rendered the tarp totally useless, it would be full closure for sleeping... a miserable state, agreed. But due to the enormous width, I can actually lie to one side of the central zipper. And if I roll on my side, I can then do some ventilating without letting water in. Of course, in a monster storm, that would only work while I was awake and in control of the opening... oh well, every blessing counts. ;-) But as long as the tarp functioned at all, it would be pretty comfortable that way because I'm a side sleeper anyway.

Additionally, you can use the size of the bag to eliminate any need of a hoop, because a lot of gear will fit inside - so you can keep the fabric off your face with the help of your pack, boots, helmet etc.

Overall, I think it would take some thoroughly evil weather to render this setup totally uncomfortable - and it would still be safe, even then. Question is: How often will that occur?

Weather is most often just too fickle where I bikepack to say with any certainty that it won't rain on a given night, and I'm often disconnected from any forecast for days at a time.

Even in the Alps, I'm rarely without internet access for long nowadays - hence rarely without a local forecast. It probably makes a huge difference.

I'm with SmithHammer – I'll never depend on a bivy bag for anything beyond keeping me alive.

The Goretex bivy I plan to use is 100cm wide at the shoulders and 70cm at the foot. It has a central zipper, allowing you to open the head area to any degree you like and to enter easily from either side. The additional tarp covers me to the waist. So, in normal weather including rain without excessive wind, I have *lots* of head room and can move quite freely. My bivy weighs in at 950g and the rest of the setup costs 400g, so my solution is (alas) significantly heavier than yours. On the plus side, I have more room and probably more comfort when the weather is tolerable or better.

You can view the bivy here, where the weight seems slightly overstated: https://www.asmc.de/Camping/Schlafen/Schlafsaecke/Zubehoer/BW-Schlafsackhuelle-GORE-TEX-oliv-p.html

As I keep saying, this system isn't meant to be my standard shelter (my SMD Lunar Solo hasn't been demoted). It's not best at anything - weight, comfort, livability in a storm etc. (though footprint is its strongest point). There will always be a much cleverer alternative for any single set of conditions out there. But I think it may shine (modestly) when a trip takes in a broad spectrum of very diverse conditions.

P.S. @Smithhammer: Differences between the US and western Europe would make a very interesting topic. The advantages and disadvantages of proximity to civilisation are just one example - e.g. supplies being less of a problem, but natural water resources a somewhat bigger one (the chance of pollution, especially due to agriculture). Scandinavia aside, perhaps, I also see differences in terrain. For instance, a long and flattish dirt-road tour would be very hard to route (so we mostly stick to mountains, which is fine my me). Then there's the lack of a substantial cottage industry - meaning that we either buy what dealers here decide to import or order directly from the USA, paying all sorts of taxes and duties and not even knowing whether the product meets our expectations (but we're in for a lot of hassle should we decide to return it). Oh... and added to all that, wild camping is not entirely legal in most countries. You can almost invariably get away with it by exercising some common sense, but a fire (including a hobo and even an alcohol stove) is a very bad idea unless you can afford to pay exceedingly stiff fines. For me, it's gas - always, even on short trips. Having seen a forest fire at close quarters near Marseille once, I don't even disagree with the sweeping bans on anything else.

On the plus side, of course, I could be sitting outside a fine restaurant in a French mountain village in July, finishing my coffee after a three-course meal and just about to head again out in search of a camp site before sunset. :-) Which might just be another reason for wanting a fast-pitch, small-footprint shelter... though possibly not a 'legitimate' one.

Granted, looking at Europe in its entirety, we have much the same climate spectrum as you - which includes the same chances of getting bogged down in never-ending rain. When it happens, I agree from experience, you'll have a much nicer time in a tent. But it's worth adding that we will often be in areas that allow us to chicken out for a night or two and hide in a hotel - hope you appreciate the honesty, if not the spirit. ;-)

This bikepacking thing having originated on your side of the pond, I think a lot of Europeans make an understandable mistake by emulating US setups to a slightly unthinking degree. I see pix of fatbikes loaded with all the state-of-the-art bags as if for an Alaskan expedition... then read that the trip went to the Black Forest in August. Oh well, at least those bags would suffice to ship cuckoo clocks wholesale...

I look forward to hearing about your trip - please post a report.   

I haven't scheduled any longer trips until the summer, @Smithhammer. But there will be shorter ones in the meantime (though skiing is my winter priority). I should really post some pix of where I normally camp - both here in the wooded lower mountains I can easily reach from Bonn; and in Austria, Switzerland and France (where all my longer tours have taken place). But I rarely take many photos on tour - and I almost never  photograph my camp sites.

In my experience, we bikers are at a disadvantage when it comes to finding adequate camping spots in problematic areas. While we cover more ground and therefore ought to see more opportunities than hikers, we are usually too busy to do so. That's why narrow seems so important to me - and I think that's why so many bikepackers settle for relatively heavy and confined hooped bivies, even though they aren't racing and might want a bit more comfort.

Also, some very mysterious law of nature seems to say that a suitable flat spot will often be more than adequately long, but rarely generously wide. Don't ask me to explain that.

Re the materials: I personally prefer silnylon for the price and durability. I don't see much of a problem with increasingly thin silnylon - as long as people realise the limitations of thin material. I was in a big store looking at a few of the UL double-wall tents a couple of weeks ago. The freestanding properties of offerings like the Big Agnes 1P Flycreek UL and the MSR Hubba NX should not - in my opinion - mislead customers into thinking that these tents would take a really excessive beating in an Alpine storm particularly well. I think my SMD Lunar Solo would fare much better due to its single-pole design and thicker material (and it's lighter, too). But the Flycreek and the Hubba do boast a more modest footprint, which I would often find nifty.

Freestanding capabilities are overrated, imho. I just use this stuff to attach loops to rocks if staking is a problem. Since I have never bought it in the UK and am no gardener, I have no idea what it's called in English.

Bikepacking - Shorter Trips. Single track, hard trails, off trail, adventuring, pushing, hiking, lifting/carrying the bike, water portages, bikepack racing, Bike/Body weight distribution. Bike Agility a priority - Yes.

My view entirely for rougher trips of any length. Single track = backpack (and dropper post) for me. I have just over half my base weight and total weight in an Ortlieb Light Pack Pro 25, weighing 380g. I formerly used a Vaude Rock UL - the old model that came in at about the same weight. But the Ortlieb has an inflatable back pad which is really comfortable, as good as any frame. It eliminates just about all the bouncing around on technical trails.

Longer trips without technical trails? A rigid touring bike with Ortlieb City panniers, the tyres chosen to suit the terrain. Arkel make some very light panniers I keep dreaming about, though I haven't tried them yet. If you have accumulated plenty of UL gear for bikepacking with an MTB over the years, you should be able to get by with flimsier panniers and lighter racks on a touring bike. That can almost offset the weight advantages of bikepacking bags.

Why not bikepack for a few days in Wales, then cross over by ferry and stick to roads in Ireland? Riding a mountain bike on the road isn't all that awful.

Nemo Hornet 1P for me. Or their mid.

Looks nice - especially the width. In my opinion, that's where UL tents need to be less greedy - and many of the newer ones are. On the other hand, it might be too short for me. And that is one of my pet peeves: Manufacturers seem to be achieving UL weights by using ever thinner material (which is okay, depending on where you want to use the equipment), but also by limiting length - which contradicts a clear biological trend. In my opinion, a really versatile shelter ought to be somewhat narrow, but not too short. Same goes for commercially available flat tarps. Ideally, 4m x 2.3m (pitched as an A-frame) would provide total coverage in wet and windy conditions with no need for an additional bivy. Instead, you commonly get 3m x 3m, which offers less protection for roughly the same weight.

I'm still a little sceptical about describing this setup as "totally bombproof for any type of weather" ... But you keep comparing it to a 'heavy, mountaineering tent' - why not just take a lighter weight tent that would offer more coverage, be more aerodynamic in the wind, protection for your gear if you wanted/needed to bring it inside, etc?

I'd trust my Lunar Solo tent in storms I wouldn't like to experience with one of the freestanding UL offerings from MSR or Big Agnes... and it's markedly lighter, too. It offers plenty of room and I love it. But it requires quite a bit of real estate to pitch, and I'm sure a real monster storm at high altitude could present a problem. This bivy, on the other hand, would only be uncomfortable... and not even as uncomfortable as many, because it's truly huge. I last used it about five years ago, but I could easily accomodate my backpack in it then - and I travel lighter now. Just throw it on the ground wherever you find a bit of space for it. Additionally, I now use a waterproof backpack anyway.

So if I'm out to break the rule of 'climbing high, sleeping low' this wouldn't be the worst choice. It would offer me security for, say, two or three days in a 10-day trip - while the tarp and the bug net would afford me comfort for the rest. Once again: French Alps right down to the Med... that's my usual summer highlight. With any luck, I would never need to fully close the bivy at all - but it would be possible, if I needed to. Most of the time, I would probably just sleep on top of it.

Thing is, my French tours are planned months in advance. I can't just go by the weather. My wife and I reserve our holidays and find accomodation on the coast, which would be difficult at short notice. Then I take the train (from Germany) to my tour's starting point and meet up with her 10 days later. I'm looking at bypassing the Alps and taking in the equally high Pyrenees, next year... Cevennes, too (and I have felt cold on the windy summit of Mont Lozere in high summer, as relatively low as the Cevennes might be).

So stormproof and even snowproof equipment is something I might actually need... but it needs to be a summer configuration at the same time. Yeah, I have got by fine with my tent in recent years. But there were also experiences I chickened out of because of the weather prospects.

I appreciate the thought - but wouldn't a full A-frame tarp like a Mountain Laurel Design Grace Tarp + their Bug Bivy be a lighter solution?

Perhaps, but an adequate full-length tarp for use without a bivy would take up more floor space. As I said, this isn't my standard outfit - I have a Lunar Solo tent. This is for situations when you want to find a spot fast and pitch fast, but know that a tent or large tarp will complicate the job by demanding too much space. That could be high up in the Alps or in dense hilly forest or close to civilisation... experience will tell you when it makes sense.

2.35 kilos = almost 3lbs.

"Totally stormproof?" I suppose if you're going to hide in your bivy and suck nylon till the storm passes. But if you've ever spent an extended amount of time in a bivy in a storm, it's a less than ideal experience. The thing I've never understood about partial tarps like that is - what do you do when the wind/rain change direction?

It's 1.35 kilos, not 2.35, @Smithammer... the weight depending on your choice of bivy, and I have chosen one of the heaviest for the protection, breathability, durability, relative comfort and space it offers.* Additionally, I nowadays always cite real-life weights based on a fully staked-out system with a realistic selection of stakes, with a ground cloth if I see the need, with a carbon pole etc.

I agree that the combo would be awful in a real storm, comfortwise - but it's doable and safe all the same. And that's what I was looking for - a small-footprint system to handle any kind of weather, but also one that is relatively comfortable in *most* types of weather. If the wind changes and heavy rain blows in, you'll just have to close up the bivy some more, and you might even have to close it completely in extreme cases. But rather more commonly, that won't happen and the rain will fizzle out instead.

It's not a weight-saving solution (in fact, it's some 380g heavier than my usual system using the Lunar Solo). It's for specific demands - or rather (in my case), for an unusually broad spectrum of demands on a single trip. Think of a tour taking in the French Alps at really high altitude in the summer, then descending through the Provence hills to the Mediterranean. One part of that trip would be best with a totally bombproof, pitch-anywhere system in case of freak heavy weather - whereas you wouldn't want to spend the rest cooped up in a mountaineer-style tent or a hooped bivy.

Also consider that I'm talking about Europe - the Alps or the Pyrenees - and not the remoter areas of the Rocky Mountains. I might venture out bargaining for trouble, but I needn't plan to sleep outside if trouble were a complete certainty. Very few regions of the Alps and Pyrenees are millions of miles away from civilisation.

(Side note: Obviously, you could do something completely different with the tarp and bug net if you were expecting nothing but warm, dry weather. For instance, you could take a Terra Nova Moonlite bivy in case of unexpected rainfall and keep it close to you at nights. I have one of them, too. Mine weighs some 180g in the old version, and I don't like it (far too cramped). It does require a ground sheet, adding about 120-140g of Tyvek to your pack. But if that were your preference, overall shelter weight could be brought down to roughly 700g.)

To be honest, I had been looking at that Micro Tarp for a few years - it started out as a MYOG page on the same site, recommended for use with a military Goretex bivy like mine. I couldn't see much sense in it... and then, all of a sudden and given a few pertinent experiences, I started to realise what it could be good for. Bug protection was the missing component after that (now solved for 90g).

Does my thinking add up a bit better, now?

_____

* I've looked into a few of the part-eVent bivies, and some seem to offer substantial weight savings over mine. But when I factor in all the modifications I would want - e.g. long zippers and extra space - and the possibility of needing an extra ground cloth to protect my NeoAir, the gram advantage starts to dwindle pretty fast. Added to which: The German army bivy I own comes with a completely adjustable head area via a waterproof zipper down the middle - you can close it to any degree you want. It is also extremely wide at the top, so you can actually lie on your side with your head *next* to the central zipper, leaving an opening to breathe in and out of in all but the most obscenely horrific conditions. So it seems the ideal bivy to use with this tarp - entry from either side, rather than the top, being an additional advantage. Not to mention the price difference: You can buy these Goretex bivies second-hand, but unused, for around € 60.

1. What is your level of experience?

I've been bikepacking for about eight years.

2. How long is your average trip?

3 - 12 days.

3. What footwear do you bring on a bike packing trip?

MTB (summer) boots plus throwaway hotel slippers that weight about 20g a pair and sort of work in the evenings.

4. How much time do you spend riding, how much time walking/hiking...on an average day?...at extremes?

Six hours actual riding time. Eight at the most.

5. What sort of issues do you have with footwear?

My boots aren't waterproof at all. But I wear Sealskinz socks if need be, so I'm not really bothered. The summer shoes are a bit on the cold side in the autumn/spring. Two pairs of socks just about fix it, but I really need an additional pair of boots for the cooler months.

A Micro Tarp from www.backpackinglight.co.uk, paired with the Sea-to-Summit Nano Mosquito Pyramid - about 400g including (sensible) stakes and a carbon pole. The tarp covers a six-foot person to the belt - so it needs to be combined with a waterproof bivy. If you use a spacious and truly breathable one made of Goretex or Event, you'll end up slightly heavier than with a tarptent. The advantage is flexibility in finding a site, because the combination doesn't demand much real estate.

Not necessarily ideal as your standard shelter option, but good as an alternative one if you need something a) totally stormproof (depending on the bivy), b) easily set up when floor space is confined, and c) flexible enough for various climate zones. Combined with a military bivy bag (heavy, but truly breathable, waterproof, durable, tolerably comfortable and spacious) you end up with about 1.35 kilos... which is considerably lighter than a four-season tent and arguably more comfortable than a hooped bivy in most situations. Just use the bivy as a groundsheet when no rain is expected, or use the bug net to stave off irritation in an open hut.

P.S. There is a cheaper version that weighs about 100g less - but lacks the main attraction (the inflatable back pad) and the side pockets.

Ortlieb's waterproof Light-Pack Pro 25 is the most comfortable frameless pack I have ever used - due to the inflatable back pad made of (very) non-slippery material. I can't provide a complete review, because I have only had it for two days. But I took it out for a long trial on some technical trail yesterday, and it's the first time a fully loaded frameless pack has given me no bother at all in the roughest sections - not even the hint of extra wobble (compared to a pack with a frame) I get from my Vaude Rock UL (old version). Also, it rained fairly hard for quite a while, so I can say that the waterproofing currently works fine... but that's no surprise given the brand and the newness of my specimen. I'm fully expecting durability, but that's just due to Ortlieb's reputation. I weighed mine at 380g - 5g lighter than advertised and about 30g heavier than my Vaude. But since I no longer need a rain cover, I actually save some 50g.

As I say, mine was packed pretty full yesterday - as if for a long trip. But you can adjust the degree of inflation for your load - less to carry, add more air. That's useful during stops in towns/hotels or at commercial camping sites. If you blow it up hard for just a few items inside, you have a daypack that doesn't look and feel limp.

I hope and think the fabric is tough enough for ungentle trail riding. Obviously, it's not a pack you want to chuck around unnecessarily. But I don't think it needs too much pampering en route. Think twice, perhaps, about ducking under low fallen tree trunks... but do so anyway for your own well-being (I'm guessing that the front of the pack can easily take a scrape or two, not quite so sure about the glossy sides with regard to particularly nasty thorns). In the worst case, I predict that small tears can easily be mended double - inside and out - to maintain the waterproofing.

I'll be using mine for bikepacking only. Not for day rides or other purposes. I think that should guarantee a long enough life. Oh... and why am I so bothered about durability and toughness? Because the pack ain't cheap for its volume. I spent € 99.99 on mine after inspecting it and pondering for almost an hour in the shop.

Just a quick note to anyone planning a night in Amsterdam...

I tried several hotels and most were unwilling to let me keep my bike in my room. But locking it up outside overnight is simply not an option for anyone who wishes to continue their ride on the same bike!

Hotel Van Gelder (www.hotelvangelder.nl) was much friendlier and also rather cheaper (€ 71.50) than most. The staff even helped me carry my bike and bags to my room. Notably also: drinks are very reasonable in the lounge. I paid € 1.75 for a pot of coffee.

The hotel is bang in the middle of it all - just 100 yards from the main railway station.

Just one caveat I might add:

For their type, these are fast tyres. But they are also relatively heavy tyres - so they don't accelerate fast. They might not be ideal for urban cycling with its frequent interruptions, because it takes a while or an effort to recover from loss of speed. So if you like to feel quick and nimble in town, this probably ain't your best choice.

Personally, I live in a village near a fairly major town and do my shopping in neighbouring villages. When I go to town, I take the bus. So the bike these tyres live on is primarily built for touring, training or shopping on paved rural roads.

As I said earlier, the Almotions are fine on dirt roads too - but they wouldn't be my first choice for a predominantly offroad tour. Firstly, I seek technical challenges when touring offroad, meaning a strong focus on adrenaline trails and on 'real' bikepacking with a mountain bike (Nobby Nics on that). Secondly, if I were ever to take a non-technical dirt road tour, I would just don some 1.75" Smart Sams I happen to possess. But long, technically unchallenging dirt road routes are somewhat rare in Western Europe - and it's even rarer to find one that couldn't be modified to add some more exciting track. The Camino de Santiago comes to mind, but it doesn't attract me.

I'm very pleased with these.

I put a pair (38C) on my new road touring bike, replacing CX Comps that were 2x 100g lighter. The Almotions roll so much better that they are noticeably faster. Additionally, they are extremely comfortable. Obviously, I can't say much about durability yet, and the same goes for puncture protection. Since I almost never ride in inner cities where the streets are paved with broken glass, I don't know all that much about puncture protection anyway.

On paved surfaces, the grip is excellent. The same goes for light offroad use and wet roads. Mounting the tyres on Mavic T520 rims was easy and required no tools, not even the gloves I normally use to avoid blisters.

I weigh about 75kg and have pumped the Almotions up to 4 bar for everyday use (including heavyish shopping loads). Using Schwalbe's light-weight SV 18 tubes, I do find myself losing pressure quite noticeably over periods of about ten days. So I have bought a tyre pressure gauge for touring - something I find less necessary for bikepacking tours of similar length, due to the much lower pressure in the Nobby Nics on my MTB.

My ideal was a tyre that would roll fast on asphalt roads, yet wouldn't frighten me into lowering speed excessively on gravel. The Almotion comes pretty close. In fact, I would rate its offroad grip significantly higher than for the CX Comps, even though the latter are cyclocross tyres.

The Almotion is an expensive tryre, but you can generally find good deals (around 30 euros) in German online shops.

And a lot of people don't know what their options are to save weight/bulk.

Agreed. Taking Krampus Snail's valid comments on luxuries into account, I repeat that I am talking about lighter rather than less (or smaller, cramped etc). Here in Europe, at least, the average backpacker or bike tourer remains unaware of concepts like tarptents - because your typical b&m or online store isn't liable to inform people about products it doesn't stock. And that is just one example of an option that is almost unknown to the general touring public. As a result, people who decide to lighten up automatically make comfort sacrifices - and those that don't enjoy the experience quickly revert to standard gear. I've met plenty of bike people and backpackers en route who weren't even aware of the NeoAir and marvelled when I showed them mine. By no means all of them were using inexpensive gear themselves.