The best way to avoid DCF tearing along seams is to use lap seams, ideally with a triple step zigzag stitch, then backed up with tape for extra strength. But that's pretty hard to do on a pack - it's much easier to use on a shelter (for instance along a ridgeline).

Also use the smallest needle you can get away with. That helps too.

Even in ultralight backpacking, I think DCF and silnylon are less popular than other choices when it comes to backpacks - they are more used in tents.

I'm not a huge fan of DCF when it comes to packs (either backpacks or bike bags). It is really at it's best in shelters, where the weight advantage is huge and it's not subject to much abrasion.

It also doesn't take stitches very well and tends to pull apart along straight seams. The hydrid version with polyester layer is better, but at that point it's nearly as heavy as Xpac and less durable. VX21RC seems to me to be a better choice all around at only 1 oz/yd heavier than the hybrid DCF.

This looks awesome! I've been looking for more excuses to head over to New Mexico and this route loops great. Not only that, but I have a friend in Grants whose house is right on the route path! I'll definitely have to make that a long weekend, probably next summer since I suspect Taylor is getting some snow this weekend.

Seek Outside sells them in 3/4":

https://seekoutside.com/bachelor-buckles-set-of-4/

Aluminum G-hooks are a fairly new thing and so far I haven't seen any of the major buckle manufacturers take them on as a standard product. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens soon given their popularity though. We had to go searching and ended up going direct to a factory in China. Large minimum order but a good product.

Oh, and don't get the ITW G-Hook. ITW normally makes great stuff but their G-hook is pretty terrible. Slips very easily, not secure at all.

It's yours! Just PM me an address.

Cleaning out my closet and I have a 2014 ACA Idaho Hot Springs Route Map that I don't need. Just the main map, I don't know where the singletrack detour map went. Free to the first person who wants it (within the US, shipping outside of that could get pricey).

So VX21 is made by Dimension-Polyant, and they started out making laminates for sails. But the Xpac line of fabrics is part of their "recreational" series, specifically marketed towards pack applications.

If you look around there are quite a lot of companies making packs out of Xpac, not just bikepacking companies. But mostly small companies. I think one of the reasons for that is that the laminating process is still under patent*, and all the fabric comes out of Connecticut and is pricier than what the big backpack companies use that's made overseas.

It's also new, sometimes it takes a while for things to catch on.

*I'm not 100% sure it's under patent but I think it is, at least there are no knockoffs out there that I'm aware of.

Tana,

Thanks for the reply.  For serious water resistance your suggestion might be the best option.  But for protection against rain I think it's overkill.  Heavier than adding seam grip and it would cost a whole lot more.  I tested one of my sealed bags in the washing machine and it got slightly damp on the inside, next to the rolltop - but newspaper packed in the middle was totally dry.  Good enough for me and lighter+cheaper than either adding a liner or using any kind of weldable fabric.

The VX style fabrics are 100% waterproof, as good as anything out there.  They have a plastic layer laminated in the middle of the fabric, protected on both sides by fabric layers (nylon on the outside, polyester on the inside).  No coating to wear off.  So unless you poke a hole in it, the only place they leak is the seams.  In theory if you could seal the seams 100% you should be able to bike through a lake.  In practice that's pretty much impossible, but it's not hard to get a good enough seal for practical purposes (practical porpoises should look elsewhere).

For the record I ended up offering seatbags with a seam-sealed option as well as rolltop framebags.  Might as well!  It's an extra $20 at the moment, which might seem like a lot until you factor in not just the cost of seam grip but also time.

Hoping to get some opinions here.  I'm in Arizona and for my riding, the only bag that I bother to make waterproof is my handlebar roll, because it's easy to seal and it has my sleeping bag in it.  If it's going to be seriously wet I'm just gonna go for a hike instead, since I find that more fun in the rain than riding.  Or I'll just stay home and sew and wait for better weather.  Guess I'm a bit of a wimp?  It just makes sense when you live down here in our climate.

That said, I know other people ride in worse conditions, and it would be possible for me to make my seat bags seam sealed as well.  I've taken my seam sealed backpacks in some rather wet weather and they've done very well, so the technique should work on a seatbag too.

So: who would pay extra for a seatbag if it was waterproof?  Probably not waterproof for submersion, but something you could stuff food and layers in, then go for a ride in wet/muddy conditions and have total confidence that your gear stays dry.  Stuff it and forget about it, basically.

It's something I can do but I'd probably have to charge at least $20 extra per bag for it because the construction is a bit different.  For one, I don't use the standard grosgrain binding tape on bags that I'm going to seam seal.  And of course it takes a while to seal a bag with a lot of seams such as a seatbag, and doing it in production means I need lots of ventilation and a respirator.

So would you be interested if you were buying a seatbag right now?  Say, $115 for a normal seatbag or $135 with trustworthy sealed seams.  Would it change if I took a video of one stuffed with newspaper going through a washing machine?  My guess is that the newspaper would be slightly damp at the end, but not waterlogged.

I make a sleeve for the side stiffeners to go into, then put them in when the bag is complete (and turned right-side-out).

Sewing curves will be easier if you use a smaller seam allowance - I use 1/4" for small bags with curves.

Huston:  Depends on the item.  In general, 2-3 weeks is likely.  Best to email me or ask specifically about each product, but here's a general report:

I'm making some seatbags this week and next week so 7" Picketposts and Highlines will be back in stock shortly.  Some of the backordered items I don't stock in all the offered colors, but I do a lot of prep work in advance so putting one together is pretty fast - the Alamo and Canelo are like that.  My framebag queue is pretty short at the moment so the lead time on any bag shouldn't be more than 3 weeks right now.

I just launched the new Rogue Panda Designs website and I'm doing 10% off all items with the promo code NEWSITE.  Valid through this Friday, June 12th!

Click here for the deals. (EDIT: Link Fixed)

All bags made in Flagstaff, AZ.

Yeah, I think the 1181n is just a little lighter duty.  But I've used it for everything from Xpac to canyoneering gear and it's handled it all very well, so it should meet your needs.

I got my first one from Raichert's sewing in Phoenix, and the second online from Alberoni in California (they sell on Ebay).  Alberoni ships the pieces (head, motor, table, legs, etc) in separate boxes, so it takes a bit of assembly.  I had another one as a working model, so I can't really say how easy the assembly would be without that.  But Alberoni has excellent customer support so they probably would've walked me through any issues.

I did get a table - industrial machines generally come as a unit with table, motor, and head.  You need a table and motor to go with these machines, and I don't think it's worth buying the individual parts piecemeal.

In regards to the 1181, I bought one last August and I love it!  It's a great machine.  Xpac feeds fantastically through it (although I haven't tried any lighter varieties than VX21).  I've also sewed through hipbelts for backpacks made of 1/2" foam and two layers of cordura, so it'll go through a wide range of material.  The automatic lubrication is wonderful, I just put drops of oil in a few places every couple of days.

In fact, I like the 1181 so much that I bought another one a month ago, to have a backup machine (and so that bags that require color switches will be easier).

I have servo motors on both machines and highly recommend that option over a clutch.

Let me know if you have any questions about it, I've gotten to know them quite well.  The only thing I can't speak about is the longevity, since I've had mine for less than a year.  But no problems so far!

I've used both 10 oz and 18oz weights, but yeah - more colors available in 18oz.   I didn't finish the edges at all, just straight stitched close to them.

It can fray very slightly, but it takes a lot to make it happen - my canyoneering pack has a few frayed edges but they aren't bad.

I use industrial walking foot machines now, but my home machine did ok with the fabric too - I just had to go slow.

Vinyl-coated polyester is what you want.  Seattle Fabrics has the best selection of colors that I've seen.

The picture below has two bags with vinyl-coated poly in them - orange poly for the star in the Arizona flag and red and yellow for the C in the Coloado flag.

Maybe my question is a little off the original topic. But what would be your recommendation to coat the bags (from the outside of course) if the original coating has somewhat lost its effectiveness after heavy abuse on the bike? The material (Cordura) kinda gets soaked even in light rain. Thanks!

Well, first I would actually turn the bag inside out so you can coat the inside, the coating will wear off slower that way.  But honestly I wouldn't recommend trying to make Cordura waterproof, it's just not made for it.  By the time you coat the whole bag you might as well make a new one out of Xpac instead.

EDIT:  The freebies are gone, but I'm doing preorder pricing this weekend - $80 shipped.  Details are here on the website.



For posterity:
-----------------


I'm giving away some seatbags - more information on my Facebook post.  I'll randomly pick a winner from the comments on that post, tomorrow at 1PM Arizona time.

There is no requirement to like my page to win, but I have some other freebies planned, including handlebar rolls at some point in the next two weeks - so I'd recommend checking the page for updates at least.

Once the freebies are given away I'm going to do preorders through next weekend ($80/bag, shipped), then the price will go up to $90 through the month of April.  Bags are expected sometime in April.

The new bags come in two different types, named after Arizona Trail sections:

The Highline is a full-suspension compatible bag with optional attachments to the seat stays of a hardtail, and works with as little as 5" of exposed seatpost.

The Picketpost is hardtail-specific and comes in two sizes: one for bikes with 7" to 9" of exposed seatpost, and one for bikes with 9" or more. It utilizes the space behind your seatpost more than the Highline, and has velcro straps to tighten down to your seat stays for maximum stability.

I find that the most difficult places to seam seal Xpac are corners.  Also, where velcro attachments come in is another place that is hard to seal.  I've had the best results with copious amounts of seam grip after binding the edges with another strip of Xpac.

It's possible to seam seal a frame bag well (adding a storm flap to the zipper as well), but I don't think it's worth it for most riders.  I have some backpacks that I've seam-sealed and have done really well in the rain, but I don't tend to bikepack when its wet (I'd rather hike) so I haven't seam sealed any of my personal bikepacking gear except my handlebar roll.

[lot]

So I hit 80 bags in my 80/80/80 sale last night!  52 of those bags have been made so far.  It's been an amazing time, and I've gotten a lot more efficient at making framebags.  So much so that I'm going to keep it going for another 24 hours to give folks one last chance to get in on the deal - it will end at 2pm Arizona Time on Tuesday, March 10th!  (for those of you in states that still do that archaic daylight savings thing, that's 2pm Pacific Time, 3pm Mountain Time, etc).

After this the price will go up to $100, but I'm going to simplify my price structure too, and bring out the other colors - black is fun and all, but there's a lot more out there. 

Check out the sale on my website.