AZT 300 Sleeping setup

[bobjenkins79]

So, I've noticed a lot of AZT 300/750 riders don't use tents, just a sleeping bag and some tyvek

Here in Missouri we either use a hammock or just use sleeping bags on the ground, but aren't there lizards, snakes and stuff to worry about in the desert? I'm curious what the preferred setup would be.

[jmh]

So, I've noticed a lot of AZT 300/750 riders don't use tents, just a sleeping bag and some tyvek

Here in Missouri we either use a hammock or just use sleeping bags on the ground, but aren't there lizards, snakes and stuff to worry about in the desert? I'm curious what the preferred setup would be.

Sure there are critters like snakes and lizards, but the bugs aren't bad, the ground stays dry, and a bag and ground cloth is sufficient.  And light and compact. 

[Smo]

So lizards aren't really a problem at all.  Snakes and scorpions could be an issue, but you have to put it into perspective - it's just not a very likely thing to happen.  Don't walk around barefoot at camp at night, but feel free to cowboy camp.  A scorpion sting would suck, mind you, but so would getting in a car accident on your way to ride the AZT, and that's a lot more likely.

I'm estimating that I've spent over 400 nights in the desert without a tent, and I've never had a problem.  If you count me and everyone I know together, we've got several thousand nights between us.  One friend, once, had a scorpion sting him while he was asleep - and he was in a hammock!  Also, he tried to brush it off, so it would have been avoidable had he kept composure (not an easy thing to do, but still preventable).

Plus, my 2.5oz polycro groundsheet is a lot lighter than any tent...

[SlowRide]

Just replying to the thread to subscribe, very interested in this topic myself, going to give the 750 a whirl this spring. Thanks for the responses thus far.

[AZTtripper]

I just prefer to sleep out in the open, even if I have a tent along, its just good to sleep out under the stars. For the race your not supposed to be worried about how comfortable you can sleep.

Lots of nights out here as well, only once did a fox invade my space, only know of one scorpion sting on account of sleeping out and he made the mistake of leaving his bedding lay open for hours.

As for snakes the Missouri boy should know they can only move about well when it's warm. During the race it's too cold at night. You may see a snake in the mid day that time of year but a overnight sighting would be rare.

Mark C may chime in with a warning about centipede's and using a full zip bivy, but it took him three 750 to spot one. Not saying don't use a bivy just that your odds are fair even without one.

[bobjenkins79]

This is all good info. I didn't know snakes went dormant in the cooler temps, but I guess that makes sense.

So a sleeping bag and bedroll/ground cloth seems to be the way to go. I'll probably bring a rainfly too, just in case. Learning and experimenting with this stuff seems to be half the fun.

[wahday]

Never done the AZT but live and ride and camp in NM which has some similar conditions. I sleep out and have a tarp for shelter when needed. Never had a problem with critters. I have found tarantulas under my ground cloth in the AM but the ones here don't bite - they eject little hairs that are an irritant. But like the snakes, they move very slowly in the cold which is why they sought me out (to get warm).

Tyvek ground cloth and a light tarp I can set up in multiple configurations makes for a versatile sleep kit. I'm good even in driving rain or sleet and snow like I had a few weekends ago.

[Adam Alphabet]

Tarantulas, snakes and scorpions...!? I'll zip up in my bivy thanks!

[bobjenkins79]

I would completely ruin my pants/sleeping bag if a snake ever tried to "cuddle up" for warmth.

[ScottM]

I'll throw my experience in, in favor of cowboy camping.  Haven't ever had any real issues, and have never heard of anyone encountering snakes while camping -- esp. during AZT race time, which as Tim said, generally means cold nights (by desert standards).

If the forecast called for a good chance of rain, I'd bring the bivy or a small tarp.

[AZTtripper]

Personally on the AZT I am more afraid of Foxes!

Addy Marx what kind of bears you got around there?

All we have around here are brown bears. I have heard of someone being dragged out of a tent, by a bear, on Gardner Canyon rd very close to the AZT. In fact it's on some escaping death type show from back in 01 or so. On the other hand I have "cowboy camped" as Scott puts it up farther the canyon a bunch.

Can something happen, sure. And I'll admit it took me a while to sleep out comfortably after the incident. But I got over it and finished that trip and have slept out many nights since. I figure the whole fox thing was a one in a million and I have had my one.

[Adam Alphabet]

...Addy Marx what kind of bears you got around there?

Depends where you are. Blacks mostly. If you're riding Squamish or Whistler you'll see them for sure on any ride that gets you up and off the main loops. They're all over.  

On a 4 day trip in the Chilcotins with my friend in August we saw a bunch of Griz. I whizzed by a youth pinning a downhill section just before coming out to the road near the lodge, he was about 15 feet away off trail.  On the morning of our 3rd day we had a proper encounter with a Mama and 3 cubs, she was just protecting her babies but she was not happy that we were in her valley. The mama was about 25 to 30 yards away, growling and huffing at us while the 3 little ones bounded up the hill behind her. We kept our composure, shouted, and they took off up the hill. It was the greatest animal encounter I've had on any bike ride in my life, in was unforgettable.

Little critters that bite and sting just weird me out, especially the thought of them crawling on my face while I'm sleeping, but then again it's more of a fear of the unknown (and uninitiated).  We all get comfortable (knowledge + experience) in our own locales.

[Adam Alphabet]

Critters aside, what kind of minimum temps are 300 people generally packing their sleep systems around?
I understand that there can be tremendous temperature variability year to year come race day.

[AZTtripper]

Well there's sleepers and then there's napper's: those who only plan on napping bring as little as possible, 40 deg bag and a e-bivy maybe just the bivy.

Those of us who sleep and finish in the 5ish day range, I carry a 32 deg bag a decent bivy and small tarp, enough to sleep a bit more comfy.

Daytime temps can range greatly from year to year even day to day. My last 300 in 010 we had snow at the start and Mark C was going to camp in the beer cave at Circle K in Tucson 2 days later. By the time I was climbing out of the Gila it was 90 something.

Nighttime temps will always be at least frosty, of course there's varying levels of acclimation. After 20 years of desert heat I'm cold below 80. From BC your summer is my winter.

[AZTtripper]

Little critters that bite and sting just weird me out, especially the thought of them crawling on my face while I'm sleeping, but then again it's more of a fear of the unknown (and uninitiated).  We all get comfortable (knowledge + experience) in our own locales.

  Yep I have had close up's with cubs in CA, nearly stepped on a rattler in the same area. Thinking the snake scared me more but I also know its rare to have an issue with one. I always tell people they are attracted to beer and cigarettes, supposedly most snake bite victims have those two things in common.

I don't like to mess with them but I don't mind seeing them. There's a really cool species up on mount Lemmon https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=arizona+black+rattlesnake Max and I spotted one up there one summer afternoon. I was ahead charging up a HAB with steep side slope, the little guy was struggling to climb the side slope and my leaning into the HAB put my face too close for comfort. Not that he really could have reached me. He gave me a buzz to say back off and I did. On Crystal Springs trail my peddle went right over one hiding in the grass, he never budged or buzzed. He did wake up before my buddy got there tho. And as he was trying to climb around on down logs the little guy decided to move under said logs. Again he never really threatened us.

Scorpion's: I've been stung, right on the finger tip, my arm tingled to the elbow all the next day. Hurt like shit at the time but that's what I get for sticking my fingers in a dark crack. I've seen more of them while digging trail then any other way, or pick something up, after several days, and they have moved in under. I've only once found one under my ground sheet in the morning. The guy who left the bivy open in the Grand Canyon had to hike out because of it so I could see it ruining a ride. But your not going to be leaving your bag lay out for more then a few minutes at a time.

Pretty sure I would be more freaked out by bigger bears, so like you say it's all about what you get used to.       

[Adam Alphabet]

Well there's sleepers and then there's napper's: those who only plan on napping bring as little as possible, 40 deg bag and a e-bivy maybe just the bivy.

Those of us who sleep and finish in the 5ish day range, I carry a 32 deg bag a decent bivy and small tarp, enough to sleep a bit more comfy.

Daytime temps can range greatly from year to year even day to day. My last 300 in 010 we had snow at the start and Mark C was going to camp in the beer cave at Circle K in Tucson 2 days later. By the time I was climbing out of the Gila it was 90 something.

Nighttime temps will always be at least frosty, of course there's varying levels of acclimation. After 20 years of desert heat I'm cold below 80. From BC your summer is my winter.

Perfect thanks for that, exactly what I was looking for.
So frosty overnight in early April along the route being pretty typical? The temp variation between night and day is crazy, like 50+ degrees.

[Adam Alphabet]

Yep I have had close up's with cubs in CA, nearly stepped on a rattler in the same area. Thinking the snake scared me more but I also know its rare to have an issue with one. I always tell people they are attracted to beer and cigarettes, supposedly most snake bite victims have those two things in common.

I don't like to mess with them but I don't mind seeing them. There's a really cool species up on mount Lemmon https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=arizona+black+rattlesnake Max and I spotted one up there one summer afternoon. I was ahead charging up a HAB with steep side slope, the little guy was struggling to climb the side slope and my leaning into the HAB put my face too close for comfort. Not that he really could have reached me. He gave me a buzz to say back off and I did. On Crystal Springs trail my peddle went right over one hiding in the grass, he never budged or buzzed. He did wake up before my buddy got there tho. And as he was trying to climb around on down logs the little guy decided to move under said logs. Again he never really threatened us.

Scorpion's: I've been stung, right on the finger tip, my arm tingled to the elbow all the next day. Hurt like shit at the time but that's what I get for sticking my fingers in a dark crack. I've seen more of them while digging trail then any other way, or pick something up, after several days, and they have moved in under. I've only once found one under my ground sheet in the morning. The guy who left the bivy open in the Grand Canyon had to hike out because of it so I could see it ruining a ride. But your not going to be leaving your bag lay out for more then a few minutes at a time.

Pretty sure I would be more freaked out by bigger bears, so like you say it's all about what you get used to.       

Not to stray too far off topic but animal experiences are truly one of the best parts about bikepacking imo. I used to never want to have them but now, I feel privileged. When am I ever going to see a griz or a black rattler in the city?

[ECEGatorTuro]

I've been contemplating this myself too. I've never camped without a tent and the thought of critters running around on me has always creeped me out. Is the main concern just minimizing weight or is it also that you're just so tired you don't want to set a tent up after racing all day? I plan to finish in 4-5 days so I'm not trying to hammer down, I just want to finish. My tent (with the fly) is only 2lbs 5oz max which weighs just as much as some bivys or tarp tents so I've always thought it's just a small amount of added weight for a lot of mental comfort.

What do you think?

[SlowRide]

Something that I haven't seen addressed in the thread yet is sleeping pads. I currently use a Big Agnes Mystic SL15 sleeping bag, it's a quilt style bag(down only on the top) with a slip in the back for an integrated sleeping pad for comfort and insulation from the ground. Currently I use the Big Agnes Q-Core SL for a pad which is an inflatable. With the nights getting down towards freezing in the desert are those who are cowboy camping doing ok with just their (full, non-quilt)sleeping bags and a ground cloth? I would think you'd want more insulation from the ground. Thorns and cactus needles are probably a consideration too? Wondering if people are using pads, are they using inflatable pads or going with something more like a foam or styro pad. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[Adam Alphabet]

.....My tent (with the fly) is only 2lbs 5oz max which weighs just as much as some bivys or tarp tents so I've always thought it's just a small amount of added weight for a lot of mental comfort.
What do you think?

If it works for you and you're happy with it perfect. I'm a bit of a weight weenie when it comes to my systems so I started making my own gear to get exactly what I wanted. You can get commercial options from the UL cottage industries at comparable weights. Here's what I use.

Bivy: 5.3oz
Tarp, with lines: 3.4oz (only set up when it looks like rain is in the cards)
Ti pegs (x6): 1.2oz
Total: ~10oz

I've been sleeping in breathable bivys and under tarps for a lot of years now and prefer them over tents every day of the week. Everyone finds their own preferences.