Bag philosophy

[drwelby]

So I'm thinking about the design considerations behind the bikepacking bags that mostly seem to just strap onto the bike.

There's decades of touring bag experience in the standard pannier and handlebar bag designs. Lately, with the resurrection of the French porteur/randonneur style, there seems to be even more interest in the classic designs, such as decaleurs.

But while the French style is ascendant,  the bikepacking bag world is also growing and accomplishing their goals differently (other than the big seat packs being similar to the Carradice bags in function).

What were the design decisions that lead this direction? I can think of the following:

Front/full suspension designs meant no racks, therefore new locations for bags were needed?

Fat tires / Iditabike influence meant racks didn't fit? Same for 29ers?

Racks and hardware were simply not dependable enough? Soft bags handle fatigue better?

Improvised solutions with drybags were evolved into more permanent solutions?

Sewing machines are cheaper than metal machining tools?

Any other evolutionary pressure I'm missing?

[12wheels]

2 more

Versatility.  Most of us probably use our bikes for general trail riding or races where permanent, or not easily removed, racks are not needed.   

Weight.  We also tend to be minimalists when it comes to the gear we chose since  excess weight is a disadvantage in a race and can negitively impact the handling of a bike on rugged trails. 

[DaveC]

The bikepacking paradigm represented by this site came out of contemporary, technical mountain biking, rather than dirt touring.

[drjon]

for me it is having them out of the way from technical trail and stable. porteur and panniers are at risk of being hit when riding more mtb type trails. i have some epic bags designed to sit on top of omm racks, but prefer the seat pack and bar harness arrangement if i a m going light enough

[eyecandyandy]

Yeah, I'll second that.  No need to overengineer it.  The handlebar bags are quite stable when lashed to the bar and frame.

The weight penalty and engineering difficulty for fully sussed bikes make the OMM racks less ideal for me.  I really like my seatpost mounted bag.  They've come a long way now and are out of the way (when riding technical trails) and hold a ton.

[jhl99]

I use front and rear racks all the time.  I find that using a front rack with front panniers actually improves bike handling because of the added inertia keeps the front end from bouncing around as much as compared to being unloaded ( I ride a Cannondale hard tail).    I did switch to a front rack from using low-riders… panniers too low, collisions with rocks and brush with low riders.  I think it is common knowledge that a lower center of gravity gives you better handling, but it appears  that some trade off a lower c.g. with the  potential weight penalty of a rack (or can’t mount it, or whatever reason).

I don’t count ounces, or tour on exclusively on ST, so maybe I’m not an average ‘bikepacker’, although I’m trying out some of the approaches of the ‘bikepackers’

Ultimately, I don’t think it is about the tools, it is more about the activity.  Personally, I’m amazed that some of the folks in this community are going hundreds of miles with such little gear.  I’m not there; I’m still partial to lugging my Peak 1 white gas stove around!!

I recently tried an experiment, ditch the front panniers, but the bag and tent on the front rack and use small panniers on the rear (I don’t use a hydration pack, just a fanny pack to carry camera equipment in).  (see pic below). Well, this wasn’t so hot, bike was not balanced, too much weight on rear…so I’m going to reconsider what goes up front…

And that is probably what this all about, each individual will find what works for them in given conditions and at a style and comfort that is appropriate.

[eyecandyandy]

I totally agree.  On your hardtail there are a lot of traditional racks that work great.  But look at that gaping, triangle-shaped hole in the middle of your bike!

I run a 5.5" fully sussed bike so my options were a little more limited.  First, I made a custom frame bag for it.  It's a nice size and fits lots of stuff in a low center of gravity.  Once that's loaded with the heavier stuff I distribute lighter/squishier stuff to the front/rear.

There's plenty of room for a white gas stove!  You should really check out a frame bag from Epic Designs (or make one like I did - just tell them you're making a triangle shaped purse and it all makes sense!).

[jhl99]

Interesting comment about the lack of utilization of the middle of the frame.  A frame bag would move more weight forward.  Making one from scratch is a non-issue, my panniers are homemade and I have the appropriate materials.

The thing is, I'm partial to water bottles.  The C-dale is my only bike, so I commute and do general fitness rides on it, so using waterbottles is convenient, never had a hyrdation pack... commute with a daypack and would never want to tour with a pack on my back.  I have seen frame bags where where there is clearance for a bottle.  Actually, I have under the downtube "braze-ons"  I also  have a homemade seatpost mounted cage mount (visible in pic).. so maybe a framepack is an option because I still might be able to have 3 viable waterbottle cages.

I should a do volume study to determine the volume of stuff I normally haul and compare to what a frame bag would offer.

[eyecandyandy]

Yeah, you should definitely try it out.  I saw your bottle cages - love it!

I have my bag with a cut-out for the shock, so it's no problem.  You mentioned you didn't like low-riders but you could just hose-clamp a couple cages on your fork, too.  Just face them slightly back and higher (see the Salsa Fargo's fork braze ons).  And - depending on your riding habits - you could have one under the downtube. 

[Eric]

Just put your water bottles or bladders in the frame bag and store tons more than cages.
If you pack the bottle at the zipper you can still get at it one handed just as fast as a cage.

To the original post - evolutionary influences.. Ultra Racing for sure. also "borrowed" influences from UL backpacking.

and good production level industrial sewing machines are pretty pricey, trust me on that one

[eyecandyandy]

Funny you mention "or bladders".  Considering that bottles are designed for ease of drinking and to fit in the cages (which are both pretty low on my priorities) maybe I should just be packing bladders in my bags instead of more bottles.

[DaveC]

 I’m still partial to lugging my Peak 1 white gas stove around!!

Those still exist?  
You'd have to count the pounds on that one.