Reliable Hydros?

[rocky rode]

In theory hydraulic disc brakes should be just as reliable as those on a car.  This hasn't been my experience.  I've had failures on Juicys and Elixers.  I've gone back to my BB7s and I may just leave 'em on, I don't want to be two days from nowhere with a non-functioning brake.  But, I know the bulk of you are running hydros.  Which do you consider extremely reliable as well as performing well?  I'm leaning towards XTs if I go the hydro route.  I can get a deal on Shimano and Magura.

In Avid's defense they have warrantied both the Juicy and Elixers and the Juicys were a couple of years old when they failed. 

Gary

[annoying crack]

I've been running Magura hydraulic RIM brakes for 15 years on several bikes without ever having a single problem!!! Well, besides that one time that I ripped the hose crashing into barbed wire, also ripped my arm open badly.

So, a few years ago, I bought a bike that had Avid juicy's on it... and ended many endurance race with non functional brakes!! More then once over the season did I need to get a brake repaired and replaced (every time under warranty, no complaints there) but it always stayed in the back of my mind. I've switched to BB7 and enjoy my rides much more now that I don't have to worry about failing brakes anymore.

So, it might be just Avid Hydro's? I love my BB7 though!
I guess this was not much help?  now, I'm confused too.

[bartspedden]

I run Avid Juicy 7's on my trail bike with just one problem in 4 years, and that was a just a simple air bubble that needed bleeding after I got the bike.  On my DH bike I've run Magura Louise's without any problems whatsoever, but because of a new sponsor I'm running Hayes now.  The Hayes came with a grease on the plungers that was too viscous, and the levers stick.  Other team mates have called Hayes on this and they sent out replacement grease immediately.  A pretty simple fix.

Depending on how often you ride, you might want to consider rebuilding your brakes once a year.  Even the calipers on your car have to be rebuilt at some point.  I guess what I'm saying is that 2 years without rebuilding might be too long if you ride a lot.  

I do long decents (>20 minutes) on my trail bike multiple times a year.  This effectively heats the brake fluid to a point that is probably beyond the recommended limit.  At this point the brake fluid will start to breakdown.  What that really means is that the pH is increasing.  The increased pH will start to break down the orings in your calipers and on your hoses which in turn leads to brake failure.  This exact same thing happens on your car too, also leading to maintenance needs.

A rebuild kit for juicy's is $40.  

Man, after thinking about this, I better rebuild my brakes!

[joeydurango]

Had zero problems with my new-generation XT brakes.  Way better than the old XT's and last-gen XTR's and much more user-friendly than any of Avid's, Magura's, or Hayes' offerings in my experience.

I agree with Bart though - any brake will require maintenance, hydro or otherwise.

[Slowerthensnot]

Fan of magura or Xt or xtr or even dore

The mineral oil seems to be less effected by attitude in my exp over DOT fluid

[frejwilk]

Hey Gary,

I have a lot of experience with Shimano - not so much with Magura. Lots of Avid too, but it sounds like you wouldn't use those. Like others posting, I've had good experience with Shimano. Everything from LX to XTR over the last several years. The XT brakes on my bike you saw in 2008 made it through the GDMBR with no service. I would have no qualms recommending XT discs to a friend.

Not directed to you, but I am interested in a bigger question - The hydraulic vs mechanical question seems to come up here often. Hydraulic reliability seems like a bigger issue here than what I've personally experienced. I'm curious what kind of specific failures people are having. Pretty much the only problems I've had with (any kind of) disc brakes are sticky pistons and warped rotors. Maybe something else is happening that I haven't seen?

FW

[Slowerthensnot]

Hey Gary,

I have a lot of experience with Shimano - not so much with Magura. Lots of Avid too, but it sounds like you wouldn't use those. Like others posting, I've had good experience with Shimano. Everything from LX to XTR over the last several years. The XT brakes on my bike you saw in 2008 made it through the GDMBR with no service. I would have no qualms recommending XT discs to a friend.

Not directed to you, but I am interested in a bigger question - The hydraulic vs mechanical question seems to come up here often. Hydraulic reliability seems like a bigger issue here than what I've personally experienced. I'm curious what kind of specific failures people are having. Pretty much the only problems I've had with (any kind of) disc brakes are sticky pistons and warped rotors. Maybe something else is happening that I haven't seen?

FW

my theory with the dot systems is that they get water in them when humidity and and attitude and then when they get hot under severe braking air bubbles form... mineral oil wont take on water like dot fluid well....

also i dont think most wrenches do a proper job of bleeding brakes

[joeydurango]

I've had only a couple problems with hydros personally - sticky pistons and leaking piston seals.  Sticky pistons happen on every type of brake I've owned (and wrenched on), just comes with the territory.  I like Shimano in part because it's super easy to reset their pistons, can do it on the trail before a proper cleaning and lube job later.

Leaking piston seals are a different story, unless the brake is well-used.  Had multiple problems with XTR (personally and on team race bikes) but nothing since switching to XT.

I agree with Fixie Dave, sometimes it takes a little longer to really get the air out than people are willing to spend.  Makes all the difference, though.

[rocky rode]

[quote author=frejwilk link=topic=1790.msg16109#msg16109 date=1295669206
Not directed to you, but I am interested in a bigger question - The hydraulic vs mechanical question seems to come up here often. Hydraulic reliability seems like a bigger issue here than what I've personally experienced. I'm curious what kind of specific failures people are having. Pretty much the only problems I've had with (any kind of) disc brakes are sticky pistons and warped rotors. Maybe something else is happening that I haven't seen?

FW
[/quote]

Hi Fred!  Thanks for the input.  The Juicys that had an issue were actually on Patti's bike.  They were 2 years old but she doesn't ride all that much.  I had changed the fluid one time in that 2 years.  The master cylinder plunger started binding, the lever was slow to return and notchy feeling.  I was planning to rebuild it but when the LBS called Sram about parts they just sent a new pair of Elixers.  The Elixers that failed were on my bike, I finally decided to try hydros.  They were only about 3 months old and a seal blew on the rear caliper with no symptoms before hand.  It was well below freezing at the time but that shouldn't be a factor.

I liked the performance of the Elixers.  I didn't like that the lever free travel would change during a ride, apparently due to temperature changes in the fluid.  I've put the BB7s back on for now and after using the Elixers I'm pretty happy with the performance of the BB7s.  With better rotors, good cables and proper set up the BB7s work pretty darn well for a 140 lb rider.  I still, slightly, prefer the feel and modulation of the hydros though.  I see some XTs in my future.

Thanks everyone for your input!

Anyone wanna buy some Elixer 5s?

[mnmtb]

This is from a sampe size of 2  , but I have been running Hope Mono Minis for about 5 or 6 years and in many 24 hour races and one CTR attempt.  The first set is now relegated to another bike and they never had issues.  THis is through rain, mud, heat, cold, the 2005 running of the 24 Hours of Old Peublo (look it up, biblical rain and sleet). I bought another set and they too have been flawless.  For the 2011 CTR my only change will be to put stainless cable for a little more insurance and a 180 rotor rather than the 160. They held up great but the 160 rotor got a little hot but the calipers had no issues.

[Pawel]

I've tried couple of brakes including Avid BB7, Avid Juicy 3 and most recently Formula RX and Formula R1. I have to said that one finger braking with hydraulic brakes is the first noticeable thing even for low end Avid Juicy 3. But there is a huge gap between Avid Juicy and Formula brakes. The latter have excellent modulation. I like most Formula R1 because of their performance and reliability (proved during last CTR). Avid Juicy 3 have tendency to sag over time and contact point with brake pads for front and rear disc is getting annoyingly different. There is no such a problem with Formula brakes. These are trouble free so far. I had to re-bleed them once a year and that is all. During CTR I used 180/160 discs combo and changed brake pads in front wheel only in Durango before the way back. But be aware of Formula two-piece rotors because they become loose on joints (that is my personal experience and might be a single problem related to my unit).

To sum up: despite good performance and 'trail serviceability' of Avid BB7 I like more comfort and best performance of Formula R1 and I hope that I will never loose both front and rear brake at one time in the middle of nowhere;)

[Slowerthensnot]

Ive found r1's pads to wear VERY quickly id dessert dust.... just on the few i've dealt with.... haven't found the lever to play nice with my hands  =)

[sean salach]

Formula Oro k18 have been excellent for me all year round in AK.