Buying lights - general advice?

[stevage]

After years of putting it off, it's finally time I got some proper headlights. My 3xAAA head-mounted lamp isn't really cutting it.

So...my first question is, do I need to spend a lot? I keep seeing ads like this: http://www.torpedo7.com.au/products/NPLI1N9AH/title/nightpro-aurora-led-headlight-system

Is this cheap Chinese junk that is going to die after a few months like so much else? I really want something that will last a few years.

Second question: is it best to buy a complete system, or buy battery pack and lights separately?

Anyone bought cheap lights that turned out bad? Care to offer a recommendation? Knowing me, this will be the start of a long research...

[Singlespeedpunk]

I went for the Fenix L2D torches with 2Fish Lock-Blocks to mount them to the bars / helmet. They are pretty bright, small+light and best of all run off 2x AA cells. 2hr run time with good rechargeable and nearer 3hrs with Lithiums. For winter group rides I run 2 (1 on bars / 1 helmet mounted) and for road events I normally just have 1 on the bars.

They have 5 light levels, strobe and SOS flash modes. The anodized body is standing up to winter commutes in the UK (including road salt!) and they have never missed a beat!

SSP

[stevage]

Hmm, I guess I'm looking for something for much longer run times, like 12-15 hours between charge. With your setup that's 12-14 rechargeable AAs, which is getting pretty expensive. Maybe I'm being unrealistic - I'm thinking 3-4 hours per day for 4 days, but I admit I haven't yet done that.

[rperks]

have you considered a dyno hub lighting system?

Prices are wide depending on what you expect the lights to do and the level of build quality you can afford.  Also a cost consideration is how much you can do yourself on the setup combined with tolerance for overseas purchases.  With the $$ to Euro rate where it is you can get Son systems for pretty good deals from places like this:
http://www.starbike.com/
I have not ordered from them yet, but know people who have and are very happy, I had the stuf in the cart and failed to pull the trigger.

Rob

[Done]

If you're still considering a headlamp (just a better one), check out:
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/myo-series/myo-rxp

It's incredibly bright on the higher settings, and runs a long time on the dimmer settings.

[DaveH]

Hmm, I guess I'm looking for something for much longer run times, like 12-15 hours between charge. With your setup that's 12-14 rechargeable AAs, which is getting pretty expensive. Maybe I'm being unrealistic - I'm thinking 3-4 hours per day for 4 days, but I admit I haven't yet done that.

The runtimes quoted are at the highest power settings.  I use the same setup and it's hard to beat.  With wise use of light power levels (turn down on climbs, up on descents) I usually get a full night with a set of batteries.  In fact I just did a 3.5 day race and only changed batteries once (using lithiums), and only on one of the lights.

There are always tradeoffs.  Runtime, cost, lumens, weight are the biggies.  The fenix/twofish combo is surprisingly good on all counts.  It is not quite enough light for a lapper, but for bikepacking (including races) they rock.

[stevage]

>have you considered a dyno hub lighting system?

Yes, I did, but the cost was going to be ridiculous. I think $550 for the hub, another $300 for the light, and another $100-150 for a wheel build. I love the idea, but that's a loooot of cash. (All $AUD)

[stevage]

If you're still considering a headlamp (just a better one), check out:
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/myo-series/myo-rxp

It's incredibly bright on the higher settings, and runs a long time on the dimmer settings.

Interesting thought. This is what I'm using at the moment:
http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/tikka-zipka-series/zipka

So, 160 lumens vs 40. That's quite a difference. I was thinking maybe in the 300+ range, for singletrack at night. Would 160 really be enough? I don't need to race, but I find navigating tree branches etc in 40 lumen light very tiring on the eyes.

[AZTtripper]

I was just looking at the Fenix store and found this says they start shipping in June. https://www.fenix-store.com/product_info.php?products_id=2341 It's a little pricey but nothing like the mega buck high output ones.

[stevage]

Hmm, two comments:
1) They quote "max" run time of 232 hours...at (read the fine print) 8 lumens.
2) Recharging 8 AA's would be a serious pain in the arse, especially if you were doing it frequently.

Incidentally, found myself in the LBS today, and was reminded that there are cheaper alternatives to the Schmidt dynohub. He quoted approx $600 for a Shimano dynohub with light and wheel build. Tempting.

[bmike-vt]

for woods, you'll still want something on your head, if you are using a dyno.
it goes where the wheel or bars go - so its tough to see around trees / corners / approaching a turn.

and be sure to get an LED setup. the old halogens faded at slow speeds to being unusable.
my SON / eDelux setup is pretty bright - even at walking pace.
and for MTB you could get a SuperNova setup.

Down under, why not the Ayup lights?

http://www.ayup-lights.com/

[AZTtripper]

The Ayup stuff is cool they were here at the 24 hours of the old pueblo a couple of years ago nice stuff but isn't that still super bright but short run time plus heavy chargers.

I agree that you need both handle bar and helmet mounted lights. But I can't see using any of the standard lights that most MTBers use for night riding. I have used a nightrider once and it is great to ride at night with a virtual sun mounted on your head I just have never been willing to shell out the bucks

My system for bikepacking has just been a headlamp on the helmet and the brightest commuter style light I could find on the bars.

Obviously there are a lot of choices and nothing really good is going to be cheep. I guess at some point I look to what is every body else doing. Looking though the earlier post I saw that DaveH uses the Fenix and mixes up the settings climbing vs descent to maximize run time. So I went to the Fenix site and found the new 8 AA version it's 95 lumens for 22 hours that seams pretty good. I also know others who use the 2 AA versions for bikepacking so they seem proven.

Not sure what the Shimano system is capable of but I would bet that it was not intended for off road use and may not be bright enough at low speeds fine for commuting at a steady pace but not good enough when you want to pick your way down some single track.

It's a tough call I like the looks of the Fenix proven like I said, I have heard of people having durability issues with some of the high end lapper style lights, whereas the Fenix stuff looks pretty bullet proof. 

[stevage]

Thanks for the comments. The LBS guy also recommended Ayup.

My current thoughts/questions are:
1) Would like to get a system I can build on as the technology develops. So maybe an expensive hub with cheapish light, then upgrade the light in a year or two.
2) It seems obvious to me that a dyno hub ought to get brighter as you ride faster (eg, downhill), and that's exactly what you want. But they don't seem to be designed this way, perhaps because traditionally they've been coupled with incandescent/halogen bulbs that would blow from the excess voltage. Why not a system with multiple LEDs that engage successively at higher speeds...
3) Agree with the necessity for head-mounted lamp. Which is going to add to the cost...

[AZTtripper]

If your planning on doing lap style races or a weekly night ride with others then the Ayup or some other super bright system would be the only way to go.

If your talking bikepacking well then I would say something different is in order.

A dyno hub does have advantages ie charging batteries for other devices, but also disadvantages ie heavy and there must be some resistance involved.

It does seem like a dyno should be able to get brighter at speed but I think the way the good ones work is to store a small amount of juice to hold the level during slow downs. Otherwise what would happen when you find yourself slowing down for tech sections that's when I would want the same light not less.

I went back and looked at the link from your opening post not sure any one answered that first question is that light just cheep Chinese crap. My guess would be yes, looking at the reviews it's hard to say most like it a couple think it may not hold up. All of the reviews are from just the last couple of months no real track record.

Good luck figuring something out.

Tim

[bmike-vt]

My dyno (SON hub and eDelux) is bright enough at walking pace to pick up climbs. I haven't ridden technical single track with it - but I have ridding mild local dirt paths and lots of gravel roads - both slow climbs (walking pace) and fast descents.

As I stated before - you'd still want a headlamp for peering around corners / mechanicals / reading cues.

The new LED dyno lights - eDeluxe, SuperNova, etc. are really bright... and they put out constant brightness above 4-6 mph, lower below that. The old halogen systems were tricky for climbing - I ran dual E6s on my brevet bike and would turn off the secondary while climbing as 2 pulled more power and was dimmer than 1...

Dave B used an Ayup system on a team 24 hour point to point road ride last year. The guy who road with him that I know had a dyno system and was a bit jealous of the run time and the brightness of the Ayup...

But - lighting is a bit personal - everyone has different night vision...

[DaveH]

The Ayups are some of the best commercially available lights I've come across for bikepacking - with the major limitation of rechargeable batteries.  The actual lightheads are stupid light, stupid bright.

For bikepacking, I made a 8xAA battery pack wired with a BFlex current regulator.  This way I can use disposable batteries for racing, and also manipulate the power output to optimize battery life.  I made it through CTR last year on a single set of lithiums.

Still, it requires the use of an external battery pack.  Just one more thing to stuff somewhere - so I've axed it for this year in favor of the Fenix lights head & bars.  So far so good, I'm really digging integrated battery/light combos and no wires.

Dynamos:  power ain't free.  If you are bikepacking with just a little night riding, it won't matter.  But if you are racing that additional wheel drag will cost a few watts, slowing you down a touch.  To just have it generate more light at more speed - might be practical to some extent, but again it isn't "free".

[stevage]

These are great comments, thanks very much. I'm not racing, nor planning to - I compete in the occasional mtb orienteering event, but I'm a long way from having bike speed be my limiting factor. I've read a few comments now about lighting being subjective - something I hadn't thought of. I admit I generally prefer less light, to soak up the night atmosphere. On a midnight winter hike up a local mountain last year, I was probably the only person who didn't use their headlight once.

So, why do I want one? I guess three reasons:
1) I'm sick of near collisions with very brightly lit cyclists (Ayup, I think) on the local MUP. I lose all vision for something like 3 seconds, and I've had a couple of very sketchy moments, nearly hitting trackside obstacles.
2) Riding the same MUP in dim light is very tiring on my eyes.
3) When bikepacking at night, I find I go much slower than I would during the day. It's also hard to make sensible route choices in such dim light.

[sanjuanrider]

Not Sure if Stefan still has any of these but after a lot of research I decided to buy one due to the incredible cost savings over buying a similar manufactered one out of Germany with the same power.  I have been testing it on night rides the last 6 weeks and this thing is great.  I did a test ride at night last weekend on the Colorado Trail with heavy wind and rain and the thing worked like a champ the entire time. It isn't the best looking but being the fact that you can run it for many hours and in all sorts of weather, it is the perfect setup for a multiple night trip.
 http://www.climbingdreams.net/gemini/

[stevage]

Hmm, sure is ugly, but hard to argue with the economics. Thanks for the pointer.

[chrisx]

the cheap way out is Planet Bike 2 watt lights
http://ecom1.planetbike.com/3045.html
2 of them is enough for medium speed.  A helmet mount is available.  Using a trickle charger gets a little extra time out of the batteries.
(16 hour slow charge = more light than 30 minute rapid charge.) 
They wont last a long time, they don't cost that much. 
multiple lights and mounting positions is recommended for safety reasons.