Hydrophobic down

[roadpacker]

Hey all,

I'm interested in getting into the down game, but I'm afraid. I come from the humid/wet mid-atlantic region, and I'm worried I'll just get it all messed up by going to bed sopping wet, or dealing with lots of days of high humidity, etc. I know Ray Jardine ended up going the synthetic route. I'm wondering who has experience with hydrophobic down-- in vests or quilts, etc. I really want the packability aspect...

Does down deal with packing/repacking better than synth? Does hydrophobic down actually work? Are those chemicals anything I should be afraid of?

Thanks!! 

[Racingguy04]

I haven't used the hydrophobic down, but I did spend 26 days in the Pacific north west with a down bag. You just have to be really careful about keeping it dry. I keep mine in a waterproof stuff sack, and I make sure to not touch the tent/tarp walls with the bag.

Down bags retain their loft alot better than synthetic bags over time in my experience. My synthetic bags get really thin fast, vs my down bags stay lofty (and there for warm) for significantly longer.

I've spent a night in a soggy synthetic bag and it was miserable, it was still wet and cold and it took forever for the bag to dry, about the same as a down bag.

I think down is the way to go, in almost all situations.

[roadpacker]

I've only spent one night in a decently wet synth quilt (climashield apex), and a completely wet nanopuff (primaloft) and I felt OK. That's my only experience though. This was in September and it was pretty chilly.

[Racingguy04]

Hmmm, I was in a polartec sleeping bag in Wisconsin in August and got caught in rain. I was rolled up in a tarp, temps were in the 40's. I toughed it out for about an hour (while the sleeping bag got soaked) before giving up and taking shelter. I have a couple of mont-bell synthetic jackets that I love, they don't really provide insulation when wet, (or maybe the water conducts heat away so fast that it doesn't help) but I have soaked them a couple of times and been able to dry them with body warmth (and shivering) by the end of the day.

I know ray jardine is in love with synthetics, and uses them exclusively, and I don't deny that modern synthetics are light, warm, and compressible, but I haven't found his experience with down and loft loss to reflect my own experience. I also think that as long as you take a little care to make sure your bag and down gear stays dry, it's superior to synthetics.

[Smo]

An important consideration with down versus synthetics is the temperature - a down bag will always be lighter than synthetic for a given temp rating, but as the temp rating goes up the gap closes.  This is because they require the same amount of interior and exterior fabric (actually down needs a little more, for baffels), so the insulation becomes less important.  For this reason I do a synthetic quilt in the summer and a down bag in the winter.

That said, down packs into smaller spaces than synthetic, so for bikepacking it can be the way to go in the summer too.

[MattL]

Ray's experience is with through hiking and his anecdotes involve sharing a tent and quilt between two campers.  Double the condensation, half the down, etc. When through hiking, riding to the next town and tossing it into the laundromat drier is not an option. When bike touring or bikepacking, we often move much faster and are rarely in dire straits weeks from civilization. You have to evaluate your situation and use your brain. I don't think Ray's evaluation of danger generally applies to bike tourists, on road or off.

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[pedalad]

I work at a gear shop and am always talking with manufacturers about hydrophobic down, as much of the industry is going that direction with jackets and bags. They are coating the feathers in a DWR solution that supposively keeps dry longer and dries out quicker if saturated.

If you get  your sleeping bag wet, you're doing something wrong! I am going to Banff with a 20 degree mammut down bag (and a sea to summit coolmax liner) for the GDMBR this summer for two reasons.

First, breathability. Mountain Hardwear, Big Agnes, RAB etc.. all say this process does not undermine breathability, one of the best attributes of down. I haven't used the hydrophobic down but common sense tells me - when you coat the natural feathers in plastic how can it breathe?

Second, as stated before- down's warmth to weight ratio is unsurpassed and compressibility is huge.

Hope that helps. Be redundant, I'll use two dry bags for my down bag and jacket.