Clips or flats? That is the question of the day.

[bakerjw]

Ok, well question of the day for me. Whenever I do anything, I research until the cows come home and then go over the findings before coming to a strong conslusion. Unless something major happens, I plan on riding the upper 1/4 of the TD route next June and am gearing up, building up and training up to put as many factors in my favor as possible.

So, today I start looking at shoes and pedal options. I've ridden with clips ever since I got back into riding several years ago. On the road or mountain bike, I like the feeling of being attached to the pedals and the consistency that they give me with foot placement. Now on the TD, I've been reading where a good number of people are going with Shimano Saint or other durable flat pedals and opting for a good strong hiking shoe or boot. A good fitting shoe or boot seems like a good choice for comfort to avoid some of the foot related issues that people seem to encounter on long multi day rides.

Any thoughts?

[Adam Alphabet]

Go with what you know. If I were to tour the top quarter of the TD it'd be clips on my XT trail pedals, just like every other ride. My $.02.

[worntreads]

Touring? Flats.
Racing? Clipless.

Why? Well I am always looking for other sort of adventures when touring, hike up to the tippy top of that mountain? Would rather NOT do that with ice skates on. But then when I'm racing I'm focusing on staying on the bike and over the long haul clipless helps minimize fatigue (DOES NOT INCREASE POWER OUTPUT! SQUASH THE PULL UP MYTH!)

[MPS]

I've done all my tours with clips. The SPD shoes are good for hiking and walking around, be it in Torres Del Paine or Thailand. I've toured over 100 countries, I usually have thongs/flip flops as backup shoes, otherwise only the bike shoes.

My last tour was 10k km in Africa and Europe this summer, only had 1 pair of SPD sandals. Next tour will be different, I'll cycle in Kamik Everests (boots with no shoes), and have a backup SPD shoes for warmer weather. I'll use different pedals for the first time, half is a flat, the other side has a clip.

[bpeschka]

I use SPD pedals; the Shimanos with clipless on one side and flat on the other.  Allows me to ride in street shoes or SPD.

[bakerjw]

I've ridden on the road with SPD-SL pedals and cleats since I started road riding several years ago. I never leave home on the road bike without them. When I got my new MTB earlier this year, I put on some egg beaters and as with my road bike, I wouldn't go out on single track or technical trails without them.

My ride for next year is a new animal completely. So much of it is pavement and gravel road with a fair amount of bike pushing involved. I think that I'll do some rides with regular flat pedals on some of our gravel mountain roads to see how well they work.

It's always good to know your options and get the input from others. Thanks.

[bouldernick]

I agree that you should use what you're comfortable with. Interesting video on VeloNews.com today about this question and efficiency.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/10/training/video-gcn-investigates-real-difference-clipless-flat-pedals_351535

I've always ridden clipped in, but last year after having to bail on TD with knee issues, I've been experimenting with flats. For my body, they seem to have a real benefit. But I wouldn't make any last minute changes.

[rick miller]

I was always a clipped in rider (clips then clipless) and did my first bikepacking race, the AZT 300 in AlpX/SPD, which I was happy with.  During the race I encountered riders on flats, and given the endless number of mounts/dismounts, thought they might have merit and resolved to give them a try.  It took me about a month to get used to flats (it helps to ride heel down) and I didn't like them at first but decided to use them in the CTR. 

Now having used both, I am sold on flats, at least for bikepacking.  Suprisingly, the deciding issue wasn't ease of dismount/remount.  Release is quicker, but remount on flats requires a more precise foot "plant" if you want the sweetspot (once planted, they hold suprisingly well).  The biggest advantages for me were using shoes I really liked for hab, Five Ten Guide Tennies, and being able to vary my foot position on the pedal.  It's really nice, for example, to be able to rest on your heels on a long down hill.  I should note, however, the flats did not relieve my chronic IT band inflammation issues.

If you decide to try flats, I would recommend a shoe with a fairly flat sticky rubber sole, which grabs the pedal lugs but doesn't interfere with intentional movement.  Pedals should be low profile, sealed bearing, light weight with removeable lugs.   http://www.amazon.com/Black-Ops-Nylo-Pro-Pedals-16-Black/dp/B006EPPXAW are an economical entry and I'm still using mine.  I'm not proselytizing, just relating what is working for me.   

[bouldernick]

Rick, I've had similar issues. I too like the ability to move my foot around, allow my body to self-align.

I'm interested by your mention of shoes because I've been using Five Tens as well. I have a pair of Aescent and Freeriders (used mostly for mountain biking). How are the Guide Tennies? Stiff enough for long days? Any idea how they are from a width perspective? I'm narrow footed. 

What pedals are you currently on? I'm using Shimano Saints with great bearings but very wide and VP Vice, nice and slim, good bearings, but a tad narrow. Considering Race Face Atlas next.

[Yagi]

Bouldernick, he mentions he's still using Black Ops Nylo Pro pedals.

[bouldernick]

Thanks. Just wondering if he had used anything else. Have you? Good thread!

[Yagi]

Yeah, good thread, even though I feel like this subject's been beaten to death already.  As for what I use, I tried converting to flats, but for some reason, I can't get my feet(mostly my toes) to stop going numb.  I tried adjusting the seat back and forth, and up and down.  Different stems.  About 5 different pairs of shoes.  No dice.  I don't know why it is, but it is.  Maybe it's the pedals - I use an older set of Holzfellers.  My go-to setup is XT SPD's and Giro Privateers.  Just wore out my Sidi Dominators(not good hike-a-bike shoes).  My favorites were Lakes, but they don't make the model I liked anymore, so hopefully the Giro's work out.  I've already got about 6 miles of HAB in them, and they feel great - time'll tell.

[rick miller]

Rick, I've had similar issues. I too like the ability to move my foot around, allow my body to self-align.

I'm interested by your mention of shoes because I've been using Five Tens as well. I have a pair of Aescent and Freeriders (used mostly for mountain biking). How are the Guide Tennies? Stiff enough for long days? Any idea how they are from a width perspective? I'm narrow footed. 

What pedals are you currently on? I'm using Shimano Saints with great bearings but very wide and VP Vice, nice and slim, good bearings, but a tad narrow. Considering Race Face Atlas next.

I've only used the Black Ops pedals ('customized' with a grinder to round the corners)

Guide Tennies are fairly stiff, typical of approach shoes, tho I'm not sure it's as relevant to flat pedals.  I'm also narrow footed and am on my 3rd or 4th pair of GT's (tho first for bikepacking), useing elastic laces - good so far.

Agreed Yagi, the subject is thoroughly tenderized, but what else do we have to talk about this time of year? 

[Yagi]

I'm with ya, Rick!  Slow times on the bikerpacker forums everywhere... I might have to start trolling to see if I can conjure up some bickering.   

Thank God I live in Colorado, where the weather was awesome (again) for riding today... at least in Fort Collins.  Freaking perfect.

[Wingnut]

After years of riding clipless XT I made the change to flats so I could use just a single pair of shoes that I could ride & hike in...IMO the best SPD shoes are at best equal to the worst hiking boots...

Took a bit to get used to though as I pull through the back of my pedal stroke so my feet sometimes slipped off the pedals.

Not as efficient but more versatile IMO...

[Kevinscamps]

Clipped in all the time.  Its all about the control.  I'll hop the back end over stuff all the time.  A good pair of the sneaker type of bike shoes are fine for HAB (Pearl izumi x-alp series only 60$ at REI).  On my last trip I hiked for around 14 miles straight due to sad bike syndrome (broken frame) and my feet were totally fine. 

[flanagaj]

I could not imagine riding a bike without spd shoes / pedals.

1.  You get the most efficient power transfer
2.  If the cleats are aligned correctly you negate possible knee problems

If you do switch I'd advise taking plenty of time getting used to them before embarking on your trip.

[dream4est]

Flats dont slow one down that much in bikepacking really. At least once a bikepack race has been won on them (2010 AZT300- Jefe).

One thing I like about them is this:

The Black Ops Nylo Pro flat pedals mentioned above dont hurt anything like metal pedals when you hit them with your ankle in HAB mode.


As far as bike control, flats can offer nearly the same if not more control but in different ways. The main difference is one has to push down first to unweight the bike, which once learned becomes better technique anyway than simply pulling up in clips to unweight the bike. Pumping the ground then comes into play. On a 29er bikepacking add in some semi-aero coasting and such and you have a good setup.

Is one better for bikepacking? No way. IMO finding the right shoe first is more important. Everyone is different. Some folks are better in flats tecnically, some swear by clips in the gnar rock. Some cant climb with flats but like I cant climb well in either so for me its about the shoe comfort.

I am on clipless currently. Dont have any good 5.10's at the moment to wear all worn out. Xalps4 water resist tennis shoe style with no slip laces. They comfy but not the greatest when my feet swell a bit.

I have finished many races both ways. Flats has a slight lead in my mind but I still use both. Maybe the 5.10 guide tennie is the answer for me.

[Mista Bone]

For what I plan on riding, flats forvever, but I must admit to never using clips/clipless.

I'm a big/wide guy and already looking at pedal extensions since on stock Trek 3700 I'm only using the outer half of the pedal. Plus if I wanna dump the bike and go hiking along the river, just hop off.

Just did 35+ mile street ride (4 months off the bike!) in cheap stock flats and cheap boots, no problems.

Each rider is different.

[PandaPrawn]

It's all preference, but I'm also a clipless to flat pedal convert for all of my riding.

Nice flats, and shoes, make a pretty big difference.