Does anybody still use map n compass?

[JayP]

curious...

orienteering is so fun and sort of a dying trade unfortunately...due to technology. everyone seems to be looking for the best GPS of sorts anymore and nobody is asking how they take a bearing and stick to it and what the best way to measure distance on a map is.

would love to hear of a bikepacking event that solely relied on map n compass. most adventure races ban GPS, for good reason, orienteering is a skill!

curious if anybody else likes bikepacking by map n compass. it's a great way to get the big picture and not this little screen. yea, a lot of people use both but have you just ventured out without the GPS? try it, it is awesome and you might even get lost for a little bit.

learn hand tools before power tools is what i learned in trade school.

just a thought,
jayP

[DaveH]

I learned orienteering in scouts as a kid.  It was a blast...I had a strong aptitude for it.  It is still taught in scouts today.  I don't see it dying out, but less used?  Certainly. Sort of like we prefer cars over horses these days - it makes travel easier, faster.

Since you mention events, I'm assuming this query is in regards to racing.  That puts a different spin on it, so...

GPS is an enabling technology.  Most bikepacking events could not realistically exist (or at least thrive) without it. Ever do a bikepacking event that goes through Sedona? Using map/compass would triple the duration and triple the time off-route.  I know the events I've organized in Utah (Dixie 200, Dixie 311, Trans Utah, Paunsaugunt enduros, Camp Lynda) would not exist if it were not for GPS.  From both perspectives as route designer and participant, the nature of the trails, roads, and how they are networked just makes it all rather unfeasible without GPS.

Adventure races have checkpoints, not routes.  Bikepacking events have big penalties for missing part of the route.  BIG difference. I have actually thought of designing something along those lines - a bikepacking event with checkpoints, rider chooses/creates the route. It's hard to reconcile 1) local advantage, and 2) taking buff roads detouring around sweet (but slower) trail or routes. If the route was constructed in an area with no roads maybe it would work...but there would have to be trails.

Anyway, some points to consider.  The current state of bikepacking would not exist without GPS.  From my perspective (southwest US bikepacker) it is the single most influential technology on the genre.

Then again, my footer gives my position away on the matter

[12wheels]

The Polaris Challenge is an orienteering/bikepacking event which started before gps became widely available.
http://www.polarischallenge.com/index.html
It's not your traditional point to point race and might now allow GPS.  I'm not aware of any events like it in the US.

On regular bikepackpacking trips I bet quite a few of us don't use or need GPS.  

[wahday]

I do not own a GPS, so, yes, I use a map and compass. My true heavy hitting orienteering skills are a little rusty, but mostly I am not in overland situations with no trail. Unexpected trail intersections or that sinking suspicion you are not going in the right direction merits pulling out the compass and map and I carry the compass in an easy to access place just to see my general direction and try and locate myself on the  map from time to time. But be careful - you need to hold it away from your bike or it will give an inaccurate reading!

I don't race, though, so I have not done it in that context.

[Done]

Years ago, I learned how to traverse Canadian ice fields with a map & compass (long distances over dangerous terrain, often in white-out conditions). I also learned how to sail with a sextant. Great tools and skills for the time, before GPS units were available.

But now I'm a GPS guy. While I often carry a tiny compass in case my GPS fails, I haven't actually used it in years. I still use paper maps alongside my GPS fairly often though. Maps are certainly better for the "big picture" than a 3" screen.

For bikepacking races, I think that navigating exclusively with a map & compass would be pretty tedious. I can often walk/ski while looking at maps, but riding requires a lot more focus. But I can see how it would be fun and add to the adventure to ride certain routes with old tools!

[DaveH]

Toby your phone surely has a compass too. You can save another few grams right there.

[Aslan]

For planning and general field routing at a touring pace I still prefer the paper map.  That said, I have used my smartphone for GPS location confirmation and to refer to stored routes on occasion.  I prefer the big picture that a paper map provides.  Paper also does not break or run out of batteries.  For those who race, following the line on a GPS is the way to go. For touring and spontaneity, a paper map still works.

[AZTtripper]

I don't see the Dirty Kanza race listed in the Calendar. Not sure if it still goes on but I remember that no GPS units were allowed. But then as I recall the whole thing was on named dirt roads.

The Polaris Challenge looks interesting. I see they do now allow GPS.

Have to go with Dave and say it would be hard to pull off a 250 or 300, in all new terrain, by reading maps. Especially in Sedona with such a huge network of trails.

Not that I don't usually carry a paper copy of a Gazetteer page or something like that. Also smaller scale FS maps that show more area as well as trails, these were my standby in the days before GPS.

When I think of Orienteering I think of larger scale maps of smaller area's and walking pace and distance rather then bike pace and distance. 

[Done]

Toby your phone surely has a compass too. You can save another few grams right there.

True enough. For that matter, I load my phone with maps, GPX tracks etc.--so I've basically got a complete backup GPS with me. But I can't stop dropping that little compass in my first-aid kit. At least I'm not bringing a sextant with me!

[KenSmithMT]

The Grizzly Man Adventure Race and Black Bear Challenge held outside of Missoula, MT has a mix of trail running, mountain biking, white water...all with map and compas.  No GPS, no phone, no bike computers...  Good old stuff.  www.grizzlymanrace.com  Unfortunately the web site was down when I checked it but should be back up soon.

Oh, and yes.  I still take maps with me in new areas and always have a compass.  I have 3 gps devices including my iPhone ( which is totally cool) but I am more likely to leave them home than my compass.

[dave54]

A map and compass still work after batteries die and after being dropped on a rock.

Finding north without a compass is also a useful skill to retain, as well making a fire without matches or flint, how to communicate with a signal mirror (or whistle, or hand signals), how to make an emergency shelter, and how to find water along a dry trail.  These are increasingly rare skills, but may save your life one day.  (or if you are just a doomsday prepper.   )

Lewis and Clark traversed a continent without a GPS, or even a map as a map of the route did not exist.  They used celestial navigation to track their locations, and after two years and 2000 miles were in longitude error of less than 200 miles -- a neat trick because at that time calculating longitude accurately required a precise timekeeping device and they did not have one.

[KenSmithMT]

Hmmm....was thinking more about this. I don't know how many of you are in or close to western Montana, but I would be willing to help set up an event if people are interested. Maybe a multi-day loop or point to point in the Montana Idaho area. Anybody else interested?

[Area54]

Yup. I'm teaching my pet monkey the joys of laying out the maps on the floor, looking at the contours and features, the trails and terrain and dreaming of the adventures to be had. She will grow up in a digital age and have digital direction finding/locating equipment in just about every electronic device before too long, but I want to capture her imagination in the excitement of planning a route or trip, to picture it in her mind and place herself in the location on the map, activate her spatial awareness, not just be a slave to an arrow on a screen. It's fun to get lost sometimes too, serendipity has a way of helping you discover new adventures and places...
 

[wahday]

Hmmm....was thinking more about this. I don't know how many of you are in or close to western Montana, but I would be willing to help set up an event if people are interested. Maybe a multi-day loop or point to point in the Montana Idaho area. Anybody else interested?

You might try posting in the Trip Planning/Need a Partner thread if you are really wanting to generate interest. That's a little too far afield for me, but a cool idea.

[Tommi]

I agree with Toby, a paper map is best for the overall view, as a GPS screen is just too small; I've also learned that the batteries for a paper map never give out.