Fishing and Bikepacking

[sherpaxc]

This is a topic off of the other thread.  I didn't want to hijack MikeC's good thread.  He gave me some info to get started with but I'd like to ask any of ya'll with more info.

I've done some flyfishing in the past, quite a bit, but it's been over 6 years since I really did anything worth mentioning.   I've got a good opportunity to do a lot of fishing this summer in both CO and WY.  Here are a few questions I have.

1.  What would be the best overall weight rod for flyfishing?  Mainly hitting small streams and slow moving water and the ocassional lake (but not very often).  I know I'm looking for a jack of all trades and master of none but it is what it is. 

2.  How many fly options do you try to have in your fly box?  In bass fishing I only use about 3 or 4 different fly's but let's face it, Bass aren't what trout are (smart). 

3.  I'll be up on Monarch Mountain for a week the 3rd and part of the 4th week of June.  If one wanted to ride to some good water, where would one head to (this is where the bike comes in thus making this a legit thread on bikepacking  )

[riverfever]

1. I would love to have a 2 wt to do this sort of thing but the issue has been finding a 4 piece model as most come in just 2. Temple Fork Outfitters does make a 3 wt in a 4 piece model for $200. The 3 wt might be a little light for normal every day stuff but you could for sure get by with a 4 wt on every outing.

2. Fly selection is pretty easy when you're talking about the majority of western waters. My home water (the South Platte) is a bit more finicky in terms of what's there and in what size (I routinely fish 18-22's) but, overall, you will be able to catch trout on a nymph rig with #14 Copper Johns, Hare's Ears, Pheasant Tails, etc. Dry flies will be very productive on the creeks and the still water. Some of the high mountain lakes have a real strong caddis presence so those should be your bread and butter dry flies (Stimulators are great for the bigger water or when visibility is an issue). In the summer you can bomb the banks on bigger water with hopper patters (I'd use something with foam in it cuz that's gonna allow you to leave the floatant at home). Many of the bigger bows can be fooled that way. If you're around creeks with deeper undercuts and oxbows then you can let that same fly drift into the darkness. Sometimes you'll be VERY surprised what's in the shadows on some pretty skinny water. Cover multiple levels and run a hopper with a dropper pattern 14-16" down off that. You can use a Copper John on the bottom and catch trout just about anywhere (as long as you're not one of those guys that doesn't deserve to have a fly rod in your hand).

3. Now......in terms of where to go.....you're asking some very privileged information. Like MC said...there's so much good water in this entire state. You can't go wrong dude. The nice thing about that area is going to be the Greenbacks at higher elevations. Perhaps one of the most beautiful fish on the planet. The smaller beaver ponds and creeks at altitude will allow you to catch as many Brookies as you little heat desires (think hundreds) and those aren't ugly either. Before I started riding again, fly fishing is ALL I did 5 days a week. The bikepacking has really got me wanting to combine the 2. I'd love to bring along a 3 wt on the CTR but I know I'd be gone for 2 months. Normally I would NOT share some of the truly great spots with anyone but there are some higher lakes in that general area that you could easily get to. In one of those locations I've caught Greenbacks in the 12" range and there are supposed to be Grayling up there. I THINK I had one on 2 years ago but never held it. If that sounds like something you're looking for....I'll consider telling you. 

-Chris 

[riverfever]

This was actually my first Greenback Cutt.



This is a gorgeous Snake River Cutt.



I can't kill a trout but these guys are sandwiches ALL DAY LONG.



I'll stop now.

[sherpaxc]

No, this is good stuff.  I've actually kept tabs on your blog since your first CTR attempt (mine too) and always looked forward to the fishing report even if it was over my head.

Would I be able to stretch that rod to an 8 ft 5 wt?  Or do you think that's just too much?  I'd like to try and get by with it this summer and if I really enjoy it get a more appropriate size for next summer.  But if it's not worth it...

I'm way more comfortable fishing beaver ponds/small lakes (we call them tanks down here) but really want to try more moving water this summer.  I'm such a newb when it comes to fly fishing trout though that it's pretty intimidating to me. 

Ah, yeah...Brookies.  Perch of the south.  Gotta love em.  They are beautiful for sure.

Here is a shot during a multi day backpacking trip in the Weiminuchi (sp?) Wilderness. 


You'll have to forgive the string, but that thing was mighty tasty cooked over some coals with some olive oil and spices after a long cold day.

[riverfever]

A 5 wt will be fine man. The bigger issue will be how many pieces it's gonna be and how easy it's gonna be to transport it. I have no clue where I'd put my 5 wt on my bike right now. I'm guessing MC's got his stashed in that frame bag but it's gotta be a 4 piece. But....you can for sure use the 5 wt on the Arkansas or the small creeks in that area. On some of the really small/skinny water you really wont be casting but more or less just holding that rod out there and placing the fly in your smaller pools ya know?

When you're getting ready to go...let me know. I'll tell you about some really great places in that general area.

[sherpaxc]

Thanks for the insight.  Yeah, it's a 2 piece so I'm not real sure how I'm gonna handle that on the bike.  I have my eye on a 4 piece but I'm also building up my new frame so it's not the best time to go throw down another couple hundred on a rod.

Does Salida have a good fly shop?  What about CB?  I'll it up the one in Gunny for sure.

[sherpaxc]

One other question.  Would something like this be a good rod for bikepacking purposes?
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=MainCatcat20431-cat604905&id=0079718321237a&navCount=1&podId=0079718&parentId=cat604905&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=9IS&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat601233&hasJS=true

If so what weight/length would you recommend (small streams off singletrack trail/small beaver ponds).

And yes, I'm giddy with anticipation for this summer's adventure.  It may not be the multi day adventures I really wanted, but this is a fine substitue indeed.

[Marshal]

2. Fly selection is pretty easy when you're talking about the majority of western waters. My home water (the South Platte) is a bit more finicky in terms of what's there and in what size (I routinely fish 18-22's) but, overall, you will be able to catch trout on a nymph rig with #14 Copper Johns, Hare's Ears, Pheasant Tails, etc. Dry flies will be very productive on the creeks and the still water. Some of the high mountain lakes have a real strong caddis presence so those should be your bread and butter dry flies (Stimulators are great for the bigger water or when visibility is an issue). In the summer you can bomb the banks on bigger water with hopper patters (I'd use something with foam in it cuz that's gonna allow you to leave the floatant at home). Many of the bigger bows can be fooled that way. If you're around creeks with deeper undercuts and oxbows then you can let that same fly drift into the darkness. Sometimes you'll be VERY surprised what's in the shadows on some pretty skinny water. Cover multiple levels and run a hopper with a dropper pattern 14-16" down off that. You can use a Copper John on the bottom and catch trout just about anywhere (as long as you're not one of those guys that doesn't deserve to have a fly rod in your hand).

Humm, talk about a strange and foreign language ……I glad I gave up fishing when I was a kid or I might have two obsessions to deal with, yup the wife would really like that………

[sherpaxc]

Yeah, one has to be careful with all that talk.  It can get as bad as looking at Dave and Lynda's site and trying to figure out what the hell all those charts and graphs mean.  I'm more a pretty picture kind of guy

Riverfever, I've never used anything but dry flies.  I'm going to try and learn more intermediate/advanced techniques this summer.  Running a hopper pattern?  Not a clue what that means. 

[riverfever]

Close to 95% of a trouts diet consists of food fom low in the water column. Nymphing imitates bugs in various stages of development. It looks like this: Attach a 9' leader to your fly line. Then attach 14" of tippet below that. Then attach your fly. This is where you'd use something like a Copper John, Hares Ear, Pheasant Tail, etc. If you're better at casting you can attch 14" of tippet to the flies hook and then run a second fly or even a third one and cover more of the water column. Just above the knot that connects leader to the first section (or only section) of tippet, you'll put your weight. Now the difference between a good fisherman and a great fisherman is just a fuzz of weight. You want just enough on there that it will tick along the bottom of the river. That first fly should be damn close to the bottom. Each subsequent fly will be slightly higher in the water column. Maybe 4' up from the weight will be your strike indicator. This is also something you'll need to play with for varying depth and flow rate so that it and the weight put the flies where you need them to be.

Sounds like you know enough to be dangerous with dry flies. Hoppers are flies that mimic a grasshopper. Same game as the dries really. On our water out here a hopper-dropper combo can be extremely productive. Take your hopper and tie it on and then run 14" of tippet off it and then tie on something (most use a Copper John). You'll cover more water.

I could literally go on for hours man. Arkanglers has a shop in Buena Vista and Salida and they are very nice and can steer you in the right direction of what's working when you're there but it'll be much of what I just said.

In Crested Butte you can hit up the guys at Dragonfly Anglers and there's also a great shop that another buddy of mine guides at in Almont called Almont Anglers. That's a tremendous area to fish because there are multiple rivers in that valley and all of them are productive and there are big fish there. Do yourself a favor if you are in that area and drive up from Almont towards Taylor Reservoir. The Taylor River during the first quarter mile from the dam is all trophy water. The fish are huge and you can see them from the bridge. Fish in the 10 pound range are very common and even guys that really know what they're doing will break off 6 before they ever get one in the net. Those fish are wicked smart and will slide out of the way when they see a weight cuz they know it means fake food is coming.

Gene Taylors shop is also in Gunny and it's great too. All of those guys are helpful. If I could make a living at it I'd be on the water every day guiding but, unfortunately, I think I'd make even less than I do teaching. But then I don't have to tell you about that now do I?

[riverfever]

I think a 3 wt would be a scream on some of those smaller waters. At the higher lakes it might be a headache for someone just learning if it's windy but I think you'd be ok with it unless you got into something real big and then you'd be wanting more backbone. On something like the Arkansas or other equally big moving waters I think you'd be wishing for a 4 wt when that trout turned downstream. That 4 wt broke down to 15" though and that's pretty dang small.

See.....now I'm all excited over here.

[sherpaxc]

Riverfever, send me your contact info please.  If you're looking to make a little on the side cash, I may have some business for you. 

And yes, I know all about the pay scale for teachers!  But you know what, we also have 10 weeks off during the summer, every summer!

[MikeC]

River's giving you some good beta--pay attention.  I know I am...!

My bikepack fishing kit has proven so fun/versatile that it's really all I use anymore.  It's a 6 piece 4 weight--fits *easily* into any hydration pack, and including reel, tippet, nippers and a small fly box it's ~1.5#'s.  It ain't pricy or blingy, nor does it need to be to have a ton of fun playing with fish.  I think I paid ~$200 for the rod/reel/backing, and it came with a rod/reel case as well as just a rod case.  Probably every snob that sees it snorts in disgust but it hasn't kept me from landing a heap o' fish.

I don't really ever use the included cases--I went down to home depot and got a fluo light tube and cut it short, and the rod fits snugly in there.  Then I can stash it in my frame pack or Hydrapak, depending on what else I need to carry.

It is admittedly hard to push much line with an 8' 4 wt, but that's part of the game.  When it's windy you need to be smart(er) about where/how you position yourself.

Chris, I landed a grayling on Grand Mesa about a year ago and it was a HUGE thrill, especially considering I had no clue they were up there!  It was a long fight and I didn't have the heart to delay the release an extra second, so no pic.  But man--I've had grayling on the brain ever since...

I'm giving some thought to tossing snowbike and skis into the car this week, then heading up to 11k to see what I can see about winter's retreat.  Chances are better that skis will be the right choice still, but I'd hate to get there and find hardpack or crust and NOT have the fat bike.  Stay tuned...

MC

[sherpaxc]

Mike, my set-up is probably near the same as yours except I'm running a 5wt from Cabela's.   I'm jonesing to get out.  Luckily we have some good water down here around Austin in the Texas Hill Country. 

[Chad B]

Great thread, thank you for the suggestions. I am hoping to get a setup for this summer's riding.

Looking at the following when I go to Cabela's this weekend:

Cortland 333 (double taper)
Cabela's Double Prestige Plus (reel)
4wt Cabela's Rod 7'6"(mentioned above)

Any suggestions?

[riverfever]

Chad....I'm not all that familiar with Cabela's stuff but....

I think in terms of the water that most of us would be fishing when bikepacking we're probably talking about higher altitude lakes/beaver ponds or smaller moving water. That said, I think the rod will be fine. With regard to reels...some will say the reel is just a place to store line and, thus, not all that important. I disagree (for most circumstances). When you're on big water and getting into big fish, a good drag system can make a huge difference in how many fish you actually land. Now...you CAN spend as much as a nice set of wheels on a reel. Personally...I don't think that's necessary for what we're talking about here. I think you'll be fine with the setup you're looking at. I do think that good quality line is important. I'm a Rio guy when it comes to line so I can't speak about the Cortland stuff with any experience. For years I used Scientific Angler's line and then I made a switch to Rio Gold about 4 years back. I LOVE this line. It casts exceptionally well when pitching big streamers in wind and it can also put a #22 dry fly down gently. They use a dry tip technology that makes the first 10' of line float very well. It's sheds dirt very well. It's also a very easy line to mend (although you won't have to worry about that all too much on smaller water and lakes. The nicest feature is the welded loop they use on the end that makes attaching looped leaders super quick. I was skeptical of it at first but my buddy said if I broke it off he'd buy me an SA line. The first month I had it I hated it because it was constantly coiling up on me. Not coiling like memory but just spiraling. It ended being my indicator. I use water balloons and dental rubber bands for braces as indicators because: 1. I use a lot of weight and I can tie a boat anchor on the bottom of the balloon AND it will float all day without any care. 2. I can fish it all day long in the winter and it never ices up on me. 3. It's the most sensitive thing I've ever used and detects the most subtle of strikes. Anyway...with the Scientific Angler line I never had a problem but the Rio wasn't happy throwing that big balloon. I ended up having to put slightly less air in the balloons and making them travel through the air easier. Once I figured that out the problem went away. The line is spendy at $70 but I think it's worth it.

I hope that helps.

-River

[wisaunders]

Has anyone tried this one out?  I'm thinking for < $50 it might be worth a shot for an overnight bikerafting trip this fall.

http://www.amazon.com/Crystal-River-Executive-Travel-Pack/dp/B000CS61S0/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

Sat
Bike to put in
Paddle to campsite
Fish that evening

Sun
Fish in morning
Paddle to take out
Bike back to car

[zuren]

I posted in another thread about packable fishing rods; can't remember where that was so I will contribute here as well.  I'm intrigued by EMMRODs for bikepacking/canoeing/backpacking adventures:

http://www.emmrod.com/

The "rod" portion separates from the handle to stow it away.  I've never seen one in person to offer any real experience but like the concept.

(no affiliation with this company)

[riverfever]

I'm not doing much cycling at all this past year but if I was, this is the system I'd be looking into now. Relatively new to the states. Plenty of videos of Youtube. http://www.tenkarausa.com/

[Adam Alphabet]

I'm not a fisherman but I do enjoy fly fishing. My friend is way into it. I got him into mountain biking and bikepacking, he got me into fly fishing. I showed him trails he showed me water, it's a good trade off.

Tenkara rods are great. A few years ago I got hooked (not intended, honestly!) on fly fishing when my friend took me out. I got a low end 5 wt Sage for cheap and learned to cast etc. Around the same time I had been following Ryan Jordan's packrafting/tenkara trips right when the whole tenkara thing was being introduced in North America and got really stoked on the idea and simplicity. So my friend and I ordered some set ups.

We were a bit concerned that they wouldn't be enough to handle the water we fish around; Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, Hope, Lower Mainland area rivers etc, but they ended up being just fine. For some sizable BC rainbows at least. My friend landed a pink salmon last time they were up (not this years run) just to see how it would fair, it didn't snap and his isn't even the heaviest rod. They're not at all useful on lakes but for moving water they're great. You could get away with one on a little pond if the set up was right.

We mostly nymph in rivers, caught trout on the dry and hoppers, imitation eggs when the salmon are spawning, it's all good fun.

For an UL bikepacking/fishing kit they're perfect. I've bike toured with mine. Kit goes: Small lanyard type bag with some different tenkara lines and tippet, small morell foam fly box, nippers and pliers is all you really need. Home made plastic tube case to protect the rod.
Less is more. Try one out, they're fun.