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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves on: February 07, 2013, 07:55:58 PM
Eugenemtbing


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« on: February 07, 2013, 07:55:58 PM »

I have a Jetboil, which I have used a bit for bikepacking, but it really is too big and heavy.

Been reading the gobs of stuff online about the various alcohol stoves.  Sounds like most people prefer methanol/denatured alcohol for fuel because it burns cleanly and is not as finicky as isopropyl alcohol.  Haven't seen much discussion about the poisonous nature of methanol.  This puzzles me a little. 

But then, I have used white gas, gasoline, propane, etc. for years when camp cooking and haven't thought about this being a health risk.

Anyway, I am just exploring the fuel/stove design options and was hoping to get some input on the fuel selection piece.

Thanks for any help.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 04:25:48 AM
VABikePacker


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« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2013, 04:25:48 AM »

I use SLX denatured from the paint aisle.  No issues here.  Isopropyl (from my reading) is sooty.  I've never used methanol. 
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 09:28:46 AM
12wheels

Bolder Bikepacking Gear


Location: Boulder, CO
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« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2013, 09:28:46 AM »

This site has the info you're interested in:
http://zenstoves.net/
Here's the page on the different fuels available:
http://zenstoves.net/Fuels.htm#Alcohol

As to the poisonous nature of the fuels..... if you're cooking outside it's a non-issue for most of us.  Just don't bath in it or drink it.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 10:54:23 AM
ezdoesit


Location: Woodland Park, New Jersey
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« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2013, 10:54:23 AM »

 thumbsup
Heet in the yellow bottle
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if you don't mind it doesn't matter

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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #4 on: March 14, 2016, 03:23:53 PM
Bobonli


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« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2016, 03:23:53 PM »

Reviving this....

What are the soot/residue concerns with the various fuels? The information from the web is all over the place; for example, one site on alcohol stoves says to never use HEET.

I'm currently cooking with IsoButane and wouldn't mind saving some weight and bulk by trying something like a Trangia. But I see references to soot-caked pots and diluting fuel to prevent soot. Soot is one thing that is not an issue with IsoButane.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #5 on: March 14, 2016, 06:14:22 PM
dh024


Location: Calgary, Alberta
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2016, 06:14:22 PM »

Burning ethanol and methanol will not produce soot, unless they have been denatured with a product that does produce soot (I seem to recall someone from Australia mentioning that this is the case down under).

The trick is to figure out what products are actually ethanol or methanol. Ethanol is the same thing as grain alcohol (so high-proof everclear is actually a good stove fuel). Denatured alcohol is widely available in hardware stores, which is ethanol with additives to make it undrinkable. Marine alcohol (for marine stoves), alcohol fireplace fuels, and fondue fuel are typically denatured ethanol, also.

Methanol is wood alcohol, and it is poisonous (you don't want to even inhale the fumes, especially in an enclosed space like a tent, and it can be absorbed through the skin to toxic levels in high quantities). Used carefully, it is a good fuel and is sold in a number of common forms: methanol, methyl hydrate, methyl alcohol, to name a few. A number of anti-freeze products are nearly pure methanol, also. HEET in the yellow bottle is a popular example, and most brake line anti-freeze are just methanol (I have seen 1 gallon jugs up here for $4).

Stay away from isopropyl alcohol as it is the one that causes soot. Rubbing alcohol is usually isopropyl alcohol, as is HEET in the red bottle. Some other anti-freeze products are also isopropyl alcohol -- a good way to check is to find MSDS sheets for the products online from companies like Reochem. (Up here in Canada, Canadian Tire is a good source:  http://msds.canadiantire.ca). Hope that helps some.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 08:06:37 PM
RonK


Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Australia
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2016, 08:06:37 PM »

I'm currently cooking with IsoButane and wouldn't mind saving some weight and bulk by trying something like a Trangia.
You're on the wrong track. A Trangia and fuel is likely to be both bulkier and heavier than a gas setup.
It is possible to get smaller, lighter alcohol stove/pot combo's but you cannot reduce the weight and bulk of the fuel.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 08:54:38 PM
vermont


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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2016, 08:54:38 PM »

I guess it depends on how many days you are going to be out.  As a reference, when I hiked the AT in 2002, alcohol stoves ruled because they were easy to refuel and tiny compared to white gas.  These days it seems canister stoves rule because trail towns figure out that people want to buy canister fuel and resupply is no longer an issue.  Canisters are hotter and comparable in size when 4-7 days are considered.
If you are only going to be out 1-3 days, then alcohol is smaller.  Trangia's allow you to store alcohol in them so for over nighter you don't even need to bring a fuel bottle.
As far as soot, what dh024 said.  Denatured alcohol produces soot but not much..  Never been an issue to me personally.
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 10:51:50 PM
chrisx


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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2016, 10:51:50 PM »

Ethanol denatured alcohol is what I use in my little can stove.  Walgreens has some.  Not as easy to get as paint thinner. That methanol alcohol gives me a headace, more so if I burn it in a hotel room.  Ethanol on the other hand I can burn in a hotel room without a worry.  Ethanol I can use to clean my hands before I eat.  If I have no water I can wash up with 70% ethanol.  It is a medical antiseptic after all.
Methanol irritates my skin and smells bad. 

The weight of your fuel counts as part of your stove weight.  A canister stove is most likely lighter after more than a day or two.  Home made stoves are not fuel efficient.

 
Haven't seen much discussion about the poisonous nature of methanol.  This puzzles me a little. 

But then, I have used white gas, gasoline, propane, etc. for years when camp cooking and haven't thought about this being a health risk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bxIuX8I2Mg
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  Topic Name: Fuels for alky stoves Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 07:16:17 PM
Bobonli


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« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2016, 07:16:17 PM »

Thanks for the responses regarding the fuels. I should have been more specific regarding size and weight. I'd be using this on overnight trips and just the burner plus a Clickstand, not the entire Trangia pot system.
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