Garmin Oregon screen visibility issue solved

[stevage]

I'm thinking there must be a tool to do it automatically. Think about...every time you take a photo, that photo has a time, say 1:32pm. From your downloaded GPS track, you can compute an approximate coordinate for that time, and hence update the photo.

<googles>

Ok, yeah it exists:
* http://digital-photography-school.com/how-to-geotag-images
* http://code.google.com/p/gpicsync/
 

[A]

REI is going to have the Oregon 300 on sale for $250. What do you guys think?

[DaveH]

Not a clue...how is the 300 different from the 500 series?  How does it compare to the Dakota series?

[stevage]

According to the Garmin comparison tool, there's not much difference other than I/O. But of course the 300 screen will be the older one, that people complained about so viciously with the 400.

I remember reading somewhere that the software is the same across all the x00 series, so even with a 300 you can download the latest updates.

[A]

I also "donated" my 60CSx so now I'm looking for a replacement. I'm just not sure if the touchscreen models are there yet. In fact I would probably rather not have a touchscreen, but the thing that has me stoked is the ability to now load "paper" or rasterized maps. I don't consider myself a racer (yet) so I have never mounted my GPS handlebar style, although I would like that option as I'm getting more into the endurance mindset. So I'm considering these models: Vista HCx (cheap, about $200), Dakota 20 (~$350), or the Oregon 300 (because of the REI sale price of $250). The features that matter to me that would rule out the Vista is there is only a 20 track limit (which has been an issue in the past) compared to 200 on the touchscreens, and the ability to add custom maps. The Oregon 300 vs. Dakota 20 are very similar in features except for size, weight, battery life all of which the Oregon has/uses more of, but the Dakota has a tilt-compensated compass which could be nice. The only differences between the Oregon 300 & 550 (respectively) are:
 Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1000 / 2000 
 Routes: 50 / 200 
 Electronic compass: yes / yes (tilt-compensated, 3-axis) 
 Camera: no / yes (3.2 megapixel with autofocus; 4x digital zoom) 
I'm not sure if the difference in price would be worth it to me. I think the camera would be neat, but I would still carry my camera for flexibility and high quality shots.

[stevage]

>The only differences between the Oregon 300 & 550
...and the screen.

Me, I was all set to get the 550, when I started talking to a nerd friend of mine who has an Android phone with GPS built in. The idea of being able to choose your own navigation software (rather than being stuck with Garmin's) is extremely appealing. And wifi would be nice. Also, if I get something which is a PDA and/or a phone, I can claim a 40% tax break. But somehow I doubt there's anything on the market as rugged as a Garmin, with a high sensitivity GPS, and all the other features...

[bmike-vt]

doubtful if that phone will work as you need it.
you'll need a cell signal for the maps to work (unless there is 3rd party for loading them to the phone, and you have the memory, and the software has the capacity for tracks / trails / routes, etc.)

and most of the navigation for cell phones are 'driving' style directions.



i'd rather stick with something that was designed for outside / hiking / adventuring navigation than trust it to my blackberry (or iphone, droid, etc...)

[stevage]

>(unless there is 3rd party for loading them to the phone, and you have the memory, and the software has the capacity for tracks / trails / routes, etc.

Yeah, that's a given.

>and most of the navigation for cell phones are 'driving' style directions.

Most of the included software, anyway. But the advantage of an Android style phone is that you know there are nerds out there with similar interests building new tools.

The specific app I was pointed to was http://www.codesector.com/maverick.php . The friend in question is now on his third mapping tool. Don't think it supports the Oregon's ability to load arbitrary georeferenced JPEG's though.

>i'd rather stick with something that was designed for outside / hiking / adventuring navigation

Yeah, that's why I think it would be a truly remarkable beast if such a thing existed: a rugged, waterproofed, high performance GPS, with full OS, phone and pda functions...

My friend keeps his in a pocket and pulls it out as needed. I definitely want something i can leave mounted in a rainstorm.

[DaveH]

I also "donated" my 60CSx so now I'm looking for a replacement. I'm just not sure if the touchscreen models are there yet. In fact I would probably rather not have a touchscreen, but the thing that has me stoked is the ability to now load "paper" or rasterized maps. I don't consider myself a racer (yet) so I have never mounted my GPS handlebar style, although I would like that option as I'm getting more into the endurance mindset. So I'm considering these models: Vista HCx (cheap, about $200), Dakota 20 (~$350), or the Oregon 300 (because of the REI sale price of $250). The features that matter to me that would rule out the Vista is there is only a 20 track limit (which has been an issue in the past) compared to 200 on the touchscreens, and the ability to add custom maps. The Oregon 300 vs. Dakota 20 are very similar in features except for size, weight, battery life all of which the Oregon has/uses more of, but the Dakota has a tilt-compensated compass which could be nice. The only differences between the Oregon 300 & 550 (respectively) are:
 Waypoints/favorites/locations: 1000 / 2000 
 Routes: 50 / 200 
 Electronic compass: yes / yes (tilt-compensated, 3-axis) 
 Camera: no / yes (3.2 megapixel with autofocus; 4x digital zoom) 
I'm not sure if the difference in price would be worth it to me. I think the camera would be neat, but I would still carry my camera for flexibility and high quality shots.

Cool, thanks for the background work

None of the features included with the 550 that are missing in the 300 make the 300 sound unappealing for riding.  It sounds like a good bargain!  I would be leery about the screen issue.  All the bells and whistles of the Oregon don't have much meaning if you can't actually see them.  My Oregon 550 requires elaborate workarounds (this post) to be usable, but it is still not as visible as the vista hcx or your 60 csx was.

I have used a few custom maps but not enough to really get the impact of them yet.  I have, however, made quite a few custom maps in topofusion and they are awesome!  For instance, the Dixie NF has a travel planning map that is GIS based.  I can zoom in to desired resolution, take a snapshot, then align in TF an bingo I've got trails I never knew existed.  This same map should now be uploadable to the Oregon.  I'll playing with this soon I'm sure.

[stevage]

> I'll playing with this soon I'm sure.

I'm very eager to hear your comments. A guy at gpsaustralia.net was saying that the custom maps don't work that well, are too slow etc.

Man, I'm starting to agonise. Maybe I really want a simple HCX/60CSX type thing, and sometime later get a fancy smartphone/gps, when technology has advanced another notch. If my ideal device exists yet, I probably can't afford it.

[DaveH]

The ideal device is so close...the Garmin 705 has nearly almost everything I could want...today at least.  The deal killer is the lack of a replaceable battery.  I just can't keep working for consecutive days

Will keep you updated on custom maps...

[Pivvay]

FWIW, I've been super happy with my Vista HCx. The 20track/500point limit does suck but it's not something that is a deal breaker at this point. I navigated with the old 250point limit too and a tiny screen.

If the ideal device isn't out there yet, get something solid and cheap and keep waiting. We all know how companies have got to keep making the best new thing so we'll upgrade

[A]

Thanks for your comments and input. I wouldn't expect airphotos to work very well as a custom map in a little GPS. The simple explanation is they contain way too much data for such an inadequate device (say compared to a PC). Aerial photography is great for pre-planning, but I don't think this would generally be the best way to decipher information off a GPS anyways. What I'm talking about is taking your pre-existing paper maps and transforming them so you can actually follow them on your GPS. Or like Dave said in finding some vector based data and creating you own custom map. This way you wouldn't have to be so dependent on somebody else's track or GPX file if it's a new area for you. For me, I think this is a huge breakthrough.

As for using cell phones for reliable GPS; I just don't see how that's feasible in a remote location. I mean you would have to have the GPS acquisition as a dedicated and stand-alone function. Can they do this yet? To me cell phones these days seem like more of a toy and a real GPS is more of a survival tool.

[stevage]

>As for using cell phones for reliable GPS; I just don't see how that's feasible in a remote location. I mean you would have to have the GPS acquisition as a dedicated and stand-alone function. Can they do this yet? To me cell phones these days seem like more of a toy and a real GPS is more of a survival tool.

That sounds like a philosophical question, not a technical one. What does "dedicated and stand-alone function" mean? It's perfectly feasible to have a device do lots of things well, I just don't know of a waterproof phone/gps device on the market. Though I'm still looking.

[DaveH]

Garmin's NuviPhone http://www8.garmin.com/nuvifone/ ?  I think it's Garmins answer to the iPhone but I haven't looked closely.  The GPS part is likely tailor made for road navigation but might be worth a look.

I just spent a week in New Jersey on business.  Everyone I was working with out there had blackberrys or iPhones.  It was amazing how much they could do on them, and how much time they spent doing it.  

[stevage]

Nuvifone isn't waterproof, and doesn't do custom maps, that I can tell. So definitely a nice gadget, but won't help me here.

RE: blackberrys, personally I couldn't stand working on one. I have a 10" netbook that I love, and if I had that kind of job, I'd get mobile broadband and bring it everywhere. But I don't think I could be happy working on anything smaller.

Back on topic: I think I'm getting an Oregon 550. I was momentarily freaked out by the dude who told me that "custom maps" aren't as good as "raster maps". Right. Ok.

(OTOH, Vista HCX + Tarptent Sublite < Oregon 550. Grr)

[A]

That sounds like a philosophical question, not a technical one. What does "dedicated and stand-alone function" mean? It's perfectly feasible to have a device do lots of things well, I just don't know of a waterproof phone/gps device on the market. Though I'm still looking.

I just meant the GPS would have to work even if the cell was out of service range and still be able to reference your location to something like a topo map, etc. For instance, My buddy has a phone with GPS that loads right on top of Google Maps. That is the bomb, however, if he goes out of range then the GPS loses all function except maybe for giving you a coordinate location. Sorry I don't know much about all the functions of cell phones now, other than to make a phone call on one. I have a prepaid one that sits in my car for "emergencies". I know there's satellite phones out there, but if they could add regular cell phone use alongside GPS(atellites) -- now that would be awesome.

[ScottM]

I'm thinking there must be a tool to do it automatically. Think about...every time you take a photo, that photo has a time, say 1:32pm. From your downloaded GPS track, you can compute an approximate coordinate for that time, and hence update the photo.

Ok, yeah it exists:

TopoFusion does auto geotagging, which we called (back in 2002) PhotoFusion - http://topofusion.com/photofusion.php

A guy at gpsaustralia.net was saying that the custom maps don't work that well, are too slow etc.

Garmin released non-beta firmware for Oregon/Colorado/Dakota just this week that has fixed a number of issues.  The maps are slower than the vector Mapsource maps, but definitely very usable.

I have used my Dakota 20 quite a bit now, and it's a great GPS.  I really like it, but for racing I would still stay with a VistaHCx, just for readability purposes.

[stevage]

>For instance, My buddy has a phone with GPS that loads right on top of Google Maps. That is the bomb, however, if he goes out of range then the GPS loses all function except maybe for giving you a coordinate location

Ah, ok. Yeah, that's a limitation of the standard google maps on normal phones, but there are fancier phones (eg, android-based ones) these days that you can download gigabytes of map data on to, so the phone reception is irrelevant to navigation.

[bmike-vt]

I'd love to see a link or 2 to. GPS for cell that alloweds for maps loaded to micro SD or memory. From what I've read for Blackberry this tech is just not ready for primetime... And GPS chews through my cell battery - and I'm on a new BB model.

Unless I was doing some sort of data entry / plant recon / GIS work I wouldn't want my GPS to have to act like a small computer. The nice thing about a stand alone system is dedicated battery life for nav / maps - you never have to worry about your cell lock burning up juice aquiring towers - or have to decide between making 1 last phone call or having juice (and easy to find AA replacement batts) for navigating.