Hub dynamo and electronics thread.

[the tortoise]

There seems to be a lot of interest in hub dynamos and their related electronic questions. I have recently jumped on board and now have a hub dynamo, and converter box along with lots of wires!

Here are a couple of pics of my set up. I am still learning but so far it is working although I am sure it will change over time.

My biggest questions are the electric draw of the various devices and the actual output of the hub once it is run through the converter plus the losses one incurs?? Also what is everyone else using for hub, converter etc??

[Area54]

I've got a SON 28 on the Fargo, with an e-Werk, for topping up Exposure Diablo, or the 800, or phone - one device at a time as required, no USB hub to reduce current and to keep the whole setup as simple and uncomplicated (read reliable) as possible. It needs to survive a heavy downpour and freezing overnight conditions to be reliable, and I don't want to be fussing over miles of cables and connectors.

Still deciding if I'll kit up the fat with a power system.

[the tortoise]

I've got a SON 28 on the Fargo, with an e-Werk, for topping up Exposure Diablo, or the 800, or phone - one device at a time as required, no USB hub to reduce current and to keep the whole setup as simple and uncomplicated (read reliable) as possible. It needs to survive a heavy downpour and freezing overnight conditions to be reliable, and I don't want to be fussing over miles of cables and connectors.

Still deciding if I'll kit up the fat with a power system.

I hear you on the reliability and simplicity aspect! Your system sounds really nice. My problem was (is) using stuff I had and going on a budget. My old Garmin 60csx is AA battery powered so when you plug in the USB cable to run it, it has to come off a cache battery. The old smartphone I use simply as a music player is not waterproof but hey it still works. My cygolite charges with a usb cord too so hence the hub.
I am thinking of going with a anker cache battery with a dual usb output so I can eliminate the USB hub and some wires.
How do you recharge you phone or don't you mess with one?
It use to be the endurance bike packer went with everything battery powered but now it looks like internal batteries and a dynamo hub might be the way to go.

[the tortoise]

An interesting article (if you are a geek!) on smartphone power consumption:
https://www.usenix.org/legacy/event/usenix10/tech/full_papers/Carroll.pdf

[Area54]

Phone stays off, packed away. For trips of less than a week, I get by with a charged Power monkey extreme battery for recharging any devices - much lighter and simpler than a dyno hub and converter. In AK the PM battery lived in my jacket pocket and stayed warm, just recharged devices in my pocket.

Don't get me wrong, I like the convenience of power on tap (the hub), it's just nice to have choices and tailor the setup for a trip.

[Mark_BC]

I was thinking of a dynamo hub but instead tried experimenting with my solar panel (roll-up marine type for my kayak)
http://www.modernoutpost.com/shop/solar-panels/232-powerfilm-r14-rollable.html
I was pleased to discover that it will charge all of my devices. I got a Pearstone battery charger for my cameras from BHPhoto ($20) and this will charge multiple camera battery types with just a swap of the plate ($2 each). I got a low voltage Energizer AA / AAA charger which runs straight off the panel's 12 V. And The Pearstone charger also has a USB out that will charge my iPhone in about an hour. But it requires strong full sunlight to do that, otherwise I get an error message from the phone.

The whole setup probably weighs about the same as the hub option. It's a bit bigger rolled up, and you can't charge while on the move, you'd have to stop somewhere. But I see this combination which looks small enough that you might be able to mount it on your bike while riding:
http://www.modernoutpost.com/shop/ready-to-go/940-kayaker-power-kit-1.html

[the tortoise]

Here is a good web page that talks about hub dynamos, bottle dynamos, solar panels, batteries and converters: http://cyclingabout.com/index.php/2013/04/awesome-power-resource-dynamo-hubs-solar-panels-power-supplies-and-batteries-for-bicycle-touring/

[the tortoise]

This is a discussion on the Exposure Revo light and a few posts give some good information on other topics.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/exposure-dynamo-light

[the tortoise]

This looks like a good deal for a nice Dynamo hub (probably sp) and an exposure revo light: http://www.wiggle.com/exposure-revo-mk1-dynamo-bike-light-with-use-hub-pack#tabBuyNow

[flanagaj]

I am just about to put an order in for the following.  I will report back when I have them and have tested them

http://www.thinkbiologic.com/products/reecharge-power-pack
http://www.sp-dynamo.com/8seriesdynamo%20hub.html

[Briansong]

Hi Tortoise,
I went with the Son28 and the USB-Werks. (It is a cache battery). I wanted to use the "Plug" but fork does not have a through hole and Specialized frowned on the idea of drilling a hole to run the wire up the steer tube.  I only charge my Etrex30 and run light (supernova) at night. I will occasionally charge my phone but normally leave it off. Never need to stop to charge or purchase batteries. The entire package is relatively light, efficient and completely trouble free.

Great thread,
Steve

[the tortoise]

Following is a reply I got from pedalpower.com

Thank you for your email. The only thing that would increase the output from your dynamo is in fact to ride faster, the cables will only transmit what the dynamo will put out.
 
So if we say at a speed of 12kph you can product 200mA per hour output from your dynamo, you may produce 350mA per hour at 18kph. Cables themselves do nothing to influence the output from the dynamo.
If your present speed puts out (let’s just pick a figure) the 350mA per hour and you want to charge your cache battery, let’s say the 10,000mAh version, you simply divide the 10,000 by the 350 to see how many hours it would take to charge the cache battery, so in this scenario you have a time of 28.5 hours approximately. (of continuous riding with no devices attached).
 
With the variation in speeds, the amount of time you ride, whether you have other devices running from the cache at the same time, the results can be quite different, but the energy from the dynamo is being used.
 
If for instance you have an iPhone attached to the cache as you ride at again say 18kph and 350mA ouput. Let’s say that the iphone has an internal battery of 1500mAh and without being attached to any charger would last 3 hours on GPS mode or apps, this would say that the internal battery of the iPhone depletes at 500mA per hour (1500/3). From the dynamo you are putting in 350mA so you have a net loss of 150mA per hour when you are riding at that speed and charging the iPhone. So your cache would be depleting at 150mA per hour not charging.
 
Battery management is the best way to go, start with all your devices fully charged and the cache fully charged. Trickle fee the cache continually from your dynamo to collect whatever output you have in the internal battery. With devices like GPS or phone, switch them off when not needed and collect the energy from the dynamo ready to use later.
 
Our most popular cable by far is the Super-i-Cable
 
Hope this info helps, if you have any other questions I will be happy to answer them for you.

[alpenzorro]

If you need maximum power output from your hub dynamo and arent scared by some DIY and plenty german text, the "Forumslader" beats any commercially available option hands down. Especially with "bikepacking compatible speeds" below and around 20 km/h, nothing else comes close: http://www.forumslader.de/12V-Automatik-USB.219.0.html


Pink line is latest version, you get almost 5W (5V/1A) already at 18 km/h.

[the tortoise]

That looks like a great product. My present converter maxis out at .5 amp output. The one you mentioned will triple this!

[Yogi the Barry]

Sorry, overlooked this thread and posted at the link below instead...
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,6083.msg52558.html#msg52558

Alpenzorro, I love DIY projects [the forumslader site you linked to], but Spanish is as close to German as I get and that's not close enough.

[alpenzorro]

Well yes... german is a bitch and google translate might not be good enough to DIY. You can pay the guys to build one for you as well, but shipping to the US might suck. Anyway, I just wanted to point out this option because you can actually get almost twice the power output of any commercial product. Most people dont know about this unless they are present in german touring bike forums.

[pickupel]

Finally put pen to paper and written a review of the dynamo systems I've used over the last few years. Used the SONdelux, Supernova E3, and B&M E-Werk on road; as well as the SON28, Exposure Revo, and Supernova Plug II+ off road. Hope this helps anyone looking to take the plunge and invest in a dynamo set up at some point!

Write up can be found here: bit.ly/18SbTZt

Any questions, let me know,

Ed

[Yogi the Barry]

Ed,
Nice writeup. Thanks for sharing. According to Exposure's web site, the new Plug III does indeed fix cutout at high speeds.
http://supernova-lights.com/en/products/the_plug.html
Although the Plug is a slick design, sure seems to be a very uber-priced 6VAC to 5VDC power supply [per a previous DIY posting]. I might pull the trigger and get the Bike2Power LightCharge charger for my Revo light system. At less than 1/3 the price of the Plug, the LightCharge is a relatively low cost gamble.
http://www.bike2power.com/lightcharge-bicycle-hub-usb-charger.html
And I totally agree with you about the lack of an on-off switch for the Revo. What were they [not] thinking? BTW, many other options for mounting the Revo are available if the mounting foot threaded hole in the light housing is utilized. Not having it here in front of me, I'm guessing it's a common M5 thread...
-B

Finally put pen to paper and written a review of the dynamo systems I've used over the last few years. Used the SONdelux, Supernova E3, and B&M E-Werk on road; as well as the SON28, Exposure Revo, and Supernova Plug II+ off road. Hope this helps anyone looking to take the plunge and invest in a dynamo set up at some point!

Write up can be found here: bit.ly/18SbTZt

Any questions, let me know,

Ed

[pickupel]

If you go for the LightCharge, let me know how it works out. As I said in the article, neither the B&M E-Werk, nor the Plug II+ are perfect solutions as far as I'm concerned — I'd love to know if there's a better option out there.

I like your idea of putting an inline switch in the cable leading to the Revo (no idea why they didn't ship it with a switch) I just haven't found one I'd be happy with so far. Want something unobtrusive and waterproof...

[the tortoise]

I have the light charge and it has been reliable over a couple of thousand miles BUT my main problem with it is that it outputs a maximum of .5 amps regardless of your speed.
The e-werks intrigues me because you can adjust the voltage and amperage. Too bad they just don't make one without the battery so one could add a battery of choice to their setup.
I think batteries are probably the weak link because they can only recharge so many times and I think heat and vibration affect their life. Anker batteries have some nice ones with 2 USB ports and the ability to charge and recharge at the same time. http://www.amazon.com/10000mAh-Portable-Dual-Port-Thunderbolt-Incredible/dp/B009USAJCC/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1380042563&sr=1-1&keywords=anker

I am using the SP hub and so far it has been dead reliable and at about $135 with shipping it is a great deal.

Also for around $420 you can get the Revo light and SP hub: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Exposure-Revo-Bike-Front-LED-Dynamo-Bike-Light-28-Spoke-Black-Rim-Brake-Hub-SALE-/360511592754?pt=UK_SportGoods_CyclAcces_RL&hash=item53f02a5932

I am using a USB rechargeable Cygolite 700 lumen model for my bike light. I can recharge it off my cache battery and with several brightness levels it gives you more options and I can remove it to use it as a flashlight and it comes with a helmet mount to boot to use around camp.