Hub dynamo and electronics thread.

[Lentamentalisk]

Man, these lights are so multifaceted I entirely forgot to address those issues.

The Luxos has a USB charger. This is amazing. It can charge my phone to give me GPS directions home. It can charge my AA batteries (with a USB battery charger) to recharge my GPS. It is totally unnecessary for the first 2-3 days of a trip because a backup Anker battery could do all of these things for much less cost. Still, amazing.

The "high" beam setting is useless. Yep. Never noticed a difference. I have a Fenix BC30 that I use for commuting during the winter. I run it on low, but have the high button accessible at all times. When a driver doesn't see me I can blast them with 1800 lumens in a few quick pulses and you'd better bet they see me then. Much better than shouting at the top of my lungs "don't run me over please!"

However, the light does have some cool smarts in it. It has LEDs pointed at the ground that illuminate the road at night. During the day, these dim and the front facing wide beams get more power, serving as "be seen" lights for other drivers.

I also have the "Toplight plus" attached to my Luxos, which is a super cool tail light. It runs off the dynamo, mounts directly to the plate in the rear of my rack (not sure how you would mount it without that plate - I've got some jerry rigged ideas in my head), it has a brake light that comes on when you slow down, making the light brighter, and it has a retroreflector built in so car headlights will shine back even brighter. Super amazing all around. The only thing is I wish it would be a little bit brighter, particularly for nasty rainy/snowy weather.

[rick miller]

Still using my SP PD 8 dynamo hub which has been dead reliable for thousands of miles including the AZT 750 which I just finished.
My B&M Luxos U light also made the trip and came back unscathed in spite of numerous crashes and super rough terrain. I ended up mounting it off my front stem since the low mount off my fork crown interfered with my sweetroll bag. The light worked very well and in conjunction with my Fenix flashlight which I helmet mounted helped get me through some singletrack night sections very well. The helmet light also came in usefull for night time camp usage.
The handlebar mounted light switch comes with a USB charger which helped keep my Sony Experia Z3v smartphone topped off since plug ins were few and far between. My thought was to use the Sony for GPS, phone, web surfing, and camera to avoid having so many different devices. At the last minute I threw on my Garmin battery mounted GPS and I was glad I did. On my Garmin I turned off all my maps and just zoomed in to follow the track. My phone GPS app was awesome due to the large screen and I left the maps on to check locations etc. I think using the smartphone as a gps would be fine on many routes but I think having a dedicated gps is a good idea. There were several times I used both when I got off track and I was glad I had both.
The phone worked great as a camera and the quality was close to my Canon point and shoot. The true advantage of using a smartphone for a camera is that you can post photos instantly on facebook or instagram so people at home can follow along on your adventure. I also used my smartphone as a music player so I had one less thing to charge and lug around.
Overall I am very pleased with my setup.
I use backcountry navigator as my smartphone GPS app which allows me to download several various types of map for off network usage. I kept my phone in airplane mode with the screen off and apps off to save battery.

Having waded through this entire geek thread I am attracted to the simplicity and relative cost-effectiveness of this system for a possible run at the TD next year.  Besides light, I would need to power an Etrex 20 and recharge my phone (I'm ok with lithiums for the Spot).  I'm wondering how people deal with the ever popular Etrex in these systems.  Since they will run on USB power, but will not charge NiMh's, I assume you would either bring an AA charger, or spare batteries for when they ultimately run down?  Would a USB hub be an effective way to keep the Etrex powered while charging the phone, or is there a simpler way to do that, as I'm wary of a lot of extra wires and gadgets hanging off the bike?  Any issues I'm missing?  Thanks, and hope everyone is enjoying the winter riding season!

[Lentamentalisk]

I have the Etrex and so far have been very happy with it. I should note, I don't think you can (or at least haven't figured out how to) run the Luxos U headlight AND charge via the USB port at the same time. As such, the general strategy seems to be charge your devices during the day, then run the light and run your devices off battery at night. I got a (now discontinued but available on Ebay) Enloop 2 AA/AAA USB battery charger that I use to charge up spare sets of batteries for my GPS and headlamp. It claims to charge 2 AA batteries in about 4 hours. That is a LOT of riding time, but the GPS then lasts about 20-24 hours from that charge. Just remember to turn it off when you stop for lunch or get to camp and you shouldn't have any troubles. Also even if you are working at a slight negative balance, that can all be solved by buying an extra set of AAs or plugging into a wall socket when you stop in a town.

The part I've been having the hardest time with is finding a place to mount the Luxos U. On the fork crown interferes with my bar bag. On the side of my fork casts a huge shadow of pitch black where the beam is blocked by the tire. On my handlebars is fine unless I have aero bars installed, in which case I have to find a way to hang it below them, which none of the mounts seem designed to do. When I'm not bikepacking the light sits on the crown and I just don't use a bar bag. When I am, right now I'm experimenting with various jerryrigged mounts that hold it between the two bars right below my hands.

[bmike-vt]

Run the extrex on AAs. It lasts a long time like that and you can carry spares.
Use the dyno light at night as needed. During the day charge up your secondary light and your phone as needed. Leave the phone off or in airplane mode until needed. It will last a long time like that.

If you aren't charging and it isn't raining (downpour - drizzle OK) you can run the etrex from the dyno while moving. As soon as you slow it will switch over to internals. There is a setting to change the power notification... But I forget where it is.


Luxos U is a great light. I have one on my road / gravel rig mounted on a Marks rack. I wouldn't run one on my bikepacking rig. For that I have an exposure Revo and a USBWerk (sine wave could work for charging too).

You can run the Luxos U as a daytime light (it switches to lower power in the daylight) and charge at the same time - but you need to be moving pretty good - 14mph or more (could be 16 or 18). No way to do that at night. You can do it with standalone lights and a Sinewave or a USBWerk but you really split the power between lights and charge. No way around that.

[bmike-vt]

A friend used this mount on the front of Jones bars for his Luxos U:

http://www.longleafbicycles.com/products/r-m-handlebar-bracket

If your aerobars have a bridge I bet you could mount it there with some shims.

[aaron w]

I am running my etrex off a very small cache battery.  I carry a set of AA batteries as a backup.  I charge the cache via my sinewave usb and of course plug it into a wall outlet when I get a chance.  I don't run this way in the rain due to the possibility of water getting into the etrex, and in that case run off AA.  Also just run off AA power if night riding.  For me, a set of AA lithiums lasts a long long time this way.

[Lentamentalisk]

bmike-vt: That is exactly the bracket I use on my handlebars. I find it is fine, but since it holds the light so close, it takes up more of my valuable bar real estate then I would like.

I agree that the luxos is great for flat ground, but pretty miserable on rough or rolling terrain. Since it has such a perfect cutoff, it can easily project 30-40' ahead. But if the slope changes even slightly, you can find yourself plunging into a total unknown at the bottom of a hill. It seems like the Exposure Revo would be perfect offroad. It spills up a lot more which will help you identify branches and see on changing terrain. You do need to worry about blinding any oncoming riders, but it seems like that isn't actually much of a concern on bikepacking routes.

[joeydurango]

I agree about the Revo.  Quite happy with it offroad, a nice wide, bright beam, with no annoying artifacts and no flicker at low speeds. 

Full disclosure: We sell the Revo (and other dynamo/Exposure products) at VC.

[Trhoppe]

Anyone here have direct feedback on using one of the Expilion Cygolite style lights and just charging it off USB as you go? That was my idea for this next year (http://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Expilion-Light-Helmet-Mount/dp/B00LXTOPNU)

I've got a SON2815 with a carbon rim coming here in a bit. Was going to couple that with a Sinewave Reactor and just charge my USB devices. Skip the cache battery for normal use as I don't need constant power. I'll still carry one in the pack somewhere as an emergency power supply, but it won't be using it inline normally, in order to try to optimize the setup. I plan on charing my Garmin 800 (latest firmware, no nag screen), my iPhone, and the Expilion Cygolite 850 as my light.

I'll probably bring my Fenix flashlight just as an emergency light, or possibly grab a AAA Petzl headlamp or something similar that is super light and tiny. Not intended to be used unless it's an emergency.

[rick miller]

Anyone here have direct feedback on using one of the Expilion Cygolite style lights and just charging it off USB as you go? That was my idea for this next year (http://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Expilion-Light-Helmet-Mount/dp/B00LXTOPNU)

I've got a SON2815 with a carbon rim coming here in a bit. Was going to couple that with a Sinewave Reactor and just charge my USB devices. Skip the cache battery for normal use as I don't need constant power. I'll still carry one in the pack somewhere as an emergency power supply, but it won't be using it inline normally, in order to try to optimize the setup. I plan on charing my Garmin 800 (latest firmware, no nag screen), my iPhone, and the Expilion Cygolite 850 as my light.

I'll probably bring my Fenix flashlight just as an emergency light, or possibly grab a AAA Petzl headlamp or something similar that is super light and tiny. Not intended to be used unless it's an emergency.

Very interested in this also.  I've used an Expilion 800 bar mount for several years and a lot of miles with no complaints but haven't tried charging from a dynamo.  I get about 9 hours on low power, which works well when used with a Fenix helmet mount when needed for tricky terrain (and camp light).  I have an SP-8x on order for a wheel build but haven't decided on a converter/cache system yet.  I wonder if you'll be able to efficiently charge your electronics without a cache battery.

[woody]

WOW - Great info and wanted to get added to thread.

[Trhoppe]

Very interested in this also.  I've used an Expilion 800 bar mount for several years and a lot of miles with no complaints but haven't tried charging from a dynamo.  I get about 9 hours on low power, which works well when used with a Fenix helmet mount when needed for tricky terrain (and camp light).  I have an SP-8x on order for a wheel build but haven't decided on a converter/cache system yet.  I wonder if you'll be able to efficiently charge your electronics without a cache battery.

A lot of people told me to do a cache battery. The Endurance group on FB. I think a LOT of the responses were due to the nag screens on older Garmin GPS devices. The Reactor FAQ says otherwise (http://www.sinewavecycles.com/pages/reactor-faq)

"No - and this is a good thing.  Most chargers that include a "cache battery" do so because they are not efficient enough to directly charge a phone - they must slowly charge a battery, then charge the phone from the battery.  This adds further inefficiency to the system, as well as a delay while the internal battery is charged.  The Reactor is able to directly charge your phone, making the cache battery unnecessary."

Makes sense, since my devices (light, iPhone, GPS) all have their own cache batteries really. Not sure why I need another one inline in the system.

[Iowagriz]

I don't have my setup yet, but when I do, I'll have a cache battery.  Simply becuase I can top it off during the day and then recharge computer/phone etc when I'm sleeping. Overall, I think it gives me more options.

I would charge battery during the day.  Run lights directly off the dynamo at night.

[sfuller]

As someone who had a dynamo hub failure on this year's TD, I appreciated being able to charge a high volume cache battery in a restaurant or hotel at the same time I was topping off my GPS and/or phone. This allowed me to recharge my Garmin at night when/if I wasn't near any power source (such as camping in the Gila). I was able to keep my Garmin 800 running without issue sans dyno hub since I had the battery.

[Trhoppe]

I don't disagree with it as an emergency for when shit breaks. As I posted above, I'll take one as an emergency, but I won't plug through it as part of the normal workflow, as it provides inefficiency if the USB charger (Sinewave) can actually produce power correctly to charge the batteries of my phone, lights, and GPS.

That way it's ready to charge if the hub breaks, or if you do need emergency power at night/whatever. I think with a 9 hour light battery, 15 hour GPS battery and 2 day phone batter (on airplane most most of the time) I should be allright? I dunno, this is why I will test

[sfuller]

That way it's ready to charge if the hub breaks, or if you do need emergency power at night/whatever. I think with a 9 hour light battery, 15 hour GPS battery and 2 day phone batter (on airplane most most of the time) I should be allright? I dunno, this is why I will test

Sounds like you should be in good shape. I actually kept my phone completely off most of the time, but I had a separate camera with me, so I only used it for some panoramic shots and actual phone calls.

[rick miller]

Anyone here have direct feedback on using one of the Expilion Cygolite style lights and just charging it off USB as you go? That was my idea for this next year (http://www.amazon.com/Cygolite-Expilion-Light-Helmet-Mount/dp/B00LXTOPNU)

I've got a SON2815 with a carbon rim coming here in a bit. Was going to couple that with a Sinewave Reactor and just charge my USB devices. Skip the cache battery for normal use as I don't need constant power. I'll still carry one in the pack somewhere as an emergency power supply, but it won't be using it inline normally, in order to try to optimize the setup. I plan on charing my Garmin 800 (latest firmware, no nag screen), my iPhone, and the Expilion Cygolite 850 as my light.

I'll probably bring my Fenix flashlight just as an emergency light, or possibly grab a AAA Petzl headlamp or something similar that is super light and tiny. Not intended to be used unless it's an emergency.

Very interested in this also.  I've used an Expilion 800 bar mount for several years and a lot of miles with no complaints but haven't tried charging from a dynamo.  I get about 9 hours on low power, which works well when used with a Fenix helmet mount when needed for tricky terrain (and camp light).  I have an SP-8x on order for a wheel build but haven't decided on a converter/cache system yet.  I wonder if you'll be able to efficiently charge your electronics without a cache battery.

I followed this up with Cygolight support:

"Thank you for contacting Cygolite Customer Service. Charging the Expilion while having it on the hub dynamo system is not recommended due to variances in power output."

"Charging the light through a battery power bank should be okay, but please make sure have the unit turned off while doing so."

BTW, these guys sent me a rubber switch cover, no charge, after losing it in a crash.

[pedalhead]

Hi all.  Just wondering which cache batteries people recommend, preferably that allow charge and discharge at the same time. I currently use one of these (http://www.amazon.co.uk/TeckNet-PowerZen-External-Portable-Motorola/dp/B00J7PF24I) which is fairly compact and has a useful flashlight as a bonus, but won't charge devices if it's charging.  Cheers.

[wolfmansbro]

Initially I thought going Dynamo > USB (sinewave) > GPS would work, but I quickly found out that a cache battery is needed  while riding at an inconstant speed while mountain biking. Reason being if biking up and down a technical trail means you are varying your speed between 5MPH and 10 MPH then there were times when the dynamo would not create enough power to charge the GPS device. Every few seconds the GPS would beep saying it lost external power. because my speed was so variable. The beeping drove me nuts. Now if I were on a route where my speed stayed above 8MPH I don't think this would be a problem.
And if you get to a long climb that takes you all day then you are not going fast enough the entire day to charge anything. Therefore will need a battery cache to get you through the night while using the dynamo light and keeping the GPS running.

[Christopher R. Bennett]

Hi,

It's been fascinating to read this thread and I thought I'd share some observations. Lots of details at tri-duffer.com.

Hubs

I've a SON 28 and two SP-8's. Never had any issues with either (about 7000 km on Tour Divides and 10,000+ km in Transcontinental's). Biggest problem with SPs is that you can't work on the bearings and Ollie Whalley had his pack up at 7000 km - others have not had an issue. If cost is not an issue, go for the SON.

I've also tested the Veologic rim dynamo which works well, but the noise is annoying. When/if I do my around-the-world attempt I'll take it as an emergency backup as it is tiny. More on backup below under battery chargers.

Lights

I've had a K-Lite, Supernova E3 and Luxos U. Sold the K-Lite, kept the E3, and bought another Luxos U.

The K-Lite is a very robust and tidy unit with great light, but ONLY suitable for mountain biking. Also, has a 'work in progress' feel to it with some not so 'slick' features.

The E3 is a very good light and it's handy having the On/Off switch on the back. The mounts are the best of any manufacturer.

Luxos U is the ultimate light. Fully legal for roads (won't blind oncoming traffic like the K-Lite), high and low light settings, and the integrated USB cache battery (see below) sets it apart from the competition. Only problem is that its mounts are poor - especially in comparison to the Supernova. My web site has lots of hacks for the mounts.

USB Power

I'll go through them all... as I've progressed over time.

Plug 2  Hassle to install due to need to have a hollow stem tube and get the wires through. Finally got it working and it blew up after about a month. Replaced with a Plug 3.

Plug 3  Worked longer than the Plug 2 but the plastic 'tongue' in the USB socket sheared off after the nasty 'Big River' trail during the kiwi brevet. End of attempts with the Plug.

PedalPower Super-i Cable  Very nice unit with an integrated cache battery. Only problem was that it didn't want to charge my cell phone and run my GPS at the same time.

PedalPower Universal Cable  Great and simple unit for USB output. Worked flawlessly from the time I installed it, small and robust. If all you need is USB power go for this and not a stem mount system like the plug.

E-werk  Haven't got around to playing with it yet, but have plans ...

Luxos U  As mentioned above, the perfect system for dynamos. I've used it to run my GPS and cell phone at the same time, and even at night with the light on there is enough power to keep the GPS topped up except on hills. Well engineered and avoids lots of hassles.

Backup/Cache Batteries

Even with the Luxos it's good to have backup batteries in case something goes wrong.

The biggest issue you face is finding a battery with 'pass through' charging. I've bought more batteries than I'd like to think about which didn't work. Then I found the answer: solar power batteries. http://www.modernoutpost.com/product-category/battery-packs/usb-battery-packs-canada/ has a list of batteries that meet this requirement.

The Cinq5 is very attractive, http://shop.cinq5.de/epages/es984127.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/es984127/Products/%22Smart%20Power%20Pack%20II%22 but costs almost half the cost of the Luxos U!

Battery Chargers

You should always have a backup light running off batteries. I like to have rechargeables...

I like the Goal Zero http://www.goalzero.com/p/133/guide-10-plus-recharger. One of the nice things about it is that it is a pass-through system which lets you charge/run others while it is being recharged. Only problem is that the AAA adapter is not integrated and I've lost it.

I found the Eneloop charger to be perfect. Light as a feather and works really well.  http://www.amazon.com/Pre-Charged-Rechargeable-Batteries-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B004UAG776  

For the batteries, Eneloop are again the best: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JHKSL0K/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I also have a 4 x AA usb backup power supply for if/when everything fails!

USB/Dynamo Hacks

I'm currently working on running my AAA only devices from USB power through a rechargeable power pack. For example, I've got my Tracer360 fibre optic vest running for 30+ hours from a 5000 mAh battery pack. My SPOT 2 is causing me grief as the battery packs I'm testing are shutting down, but hope to have that solved soon. Check out tri-duffer.com for updates.

Hope this helps!