Keep seat bag from swaying?

[kikoraa]

Anyone experience this? Wondering if there's a remedy. My bag only has a few articles of clothing and my cookset wrapped in a base layer at the base of the bag. It straps around my seat post and 2 claps loop through the seat rails. Took too closure and then finally that's cinched down with another pair of clasps. It's the only bag I have on my bike that isn't stable.


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[RonK]

I was going to suggest a Railwing, but too bad if you want it now as it seems Andrew has suspended sales until December while tackles his order backlog.

[Lentamentalisk]

I think they basically all swing. Besides the rail wing and the Mr. Fusion of course. One thought I've had is to make sure there is some nice compressible stuff packed right against the part that touches the seat rails so you can really compress the bag down.

That said, I've yet to see a seat bag not wobble.

[Iowagriz]

This thread has some good information on reducing the sway.  For me it was figuring out what to place first to compact the best and also which order to tighten the straps to get it good and tight.  Pretty bombproof for me now.
http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/question-and-answer/seat-bags-11631/

[dream4est]

Any Seatbag that attaches to the post with a Velcro wrap will have inherent sway based on physics alone. Mitigating that rotation is key. Two sided tape on the post can help.

Hopefully new designs move away from the seat post Velcro Attachment. I am using one that only attaches to seat rails. Working on bringing it to market later this year or early next.

[Yogi the Barry]

An new option which addresses this...
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/10/13/ib15-pdw-debuts-ultra-versatile-bindle-rack-robust-bird-cages-and-usb-rechargeable-danger-demon-lights/#more-113183

Anyone experience this? ...snip...

[Adam Alphabet]

An new option which addresses this...
http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/10/13/ib15-pdw-debuts-ultra-versatile-bindle-rack-robust-bird-cages-and-usb-rechargeable-danger-demon-lights/#more-113183

A big company ripping off Porcelain Rockets Mr. Fusion....
http://www.porcelainrocket.com/product/mr-fusion-seat-system/

[Yogi the Barry]

@Andy - I don't know about PDW being a "big company" [guess it's relative], but definitely looks like an identical concept. Now a tiny niche market is divided... Bummer... Sounds like legal issues could be looming.

On the tangent thought of seat bags... What I'd like to see - any bag makers out there listening? - is a seat bag which attaches to the top of the seat stays and better utilizes the space closer to the seatpost and lower on the bike. Not really much volume space to take advantage of on a FS bike, but most hardtails have quite a bit of unused room above the rear wheel.

Edit addition - both designs need to ditch trying to make the twos rods coming together at the seatpost clamp totally rigid. Aluminum rods with holes = stress failure at seat collar. Aluminum ring around carbon seatposts also a bad idea [which is noted by PR]. The seatcollar joint needs to a heim joint or something a bit softer to allow some degree of freedom. Just the triangulation of the two stays coming together at the seatpost is going to really cut down on swaying. Two carbon stays at the bottom of the tray, forming a triangle with an apex at the seatpost joint [plastic/fabric/webbing heim equivalent]... or even attaching at the top of the seat stays... and you have another similar manifestation of the design concept.

A big company ripping off Porcelain Rockets Mr. Fusion....
http://www.porcelainrocket.com/product/mr-fusion-seat-system/

[Yogi the Barry]

Bindle / Mr. Fusion - I just posted a comment to the PDW BikeRumor article I linked above, mentioning the Mr. Fusion and its Porcelin Rocket product link.

[Adam Alphabet]

@Andy - I don't know about PDW being a "big company" [guess it's relative], but definitely looks like an identical concept. Now a tiny niche market is divided... Bummer... Sounds like legal issues could be looming.

On the tangent thought of seat bags... What I'd like to see - any bag makers out there listening? - is a seat bag which attaches to the top of the seat stays and better utilizes the space closer to the seatpost and lower on the bike. Not really much volume space to take advantage of on a FS bike, but most hardtails have quite a bit of unused room above the rear wheel.

Edit addition - both designs need to ditch trying to make the twos rods coming together at the seatpost clamp totally rigid. Aluminum rods with holes = stress failure at seat collar. Aluminum ring around carbon seatposts also a bad idea [which is noted by PR]. The seatcollar joint needs to a heim joint or something a bit softer to allow some degree of freedom. Just the triangulation of the two stays coming together at the seatpost is going to really cut down on swaying. Two carbon stays at the bottom of the tray, forming a triangle with an apex at the seatpost joint [plastic/fabric/webbing heim equivalent]... or even attaching at the top of the seat stays... and you have another similar manifestation of the design concept.

I agree, PDW aren't 'big' but like you say, it's a bummer splitting a niche. Especially when the loops for PR's are hand made by Rick Hunter of Hunter Cycles which makes them extra f'ing radical! I believe the clamps are custom cnc'd locally for PR as well, also rad! I'm going to assume the PDW rack is going to be pressed out of China or Taiwan or something. I know, I know some don't care, but some of us do. Each their own.

Some info from a blog post on Version 1... V2 attachment is quite different, refined.
http://www.porcelainrocket.com/introducing-mr-fusion-2/

RE: seat stay attachment.... I've also thought about this and I'm surprised seat stay attachment hasn't been explored further. Lot's of potential there, for hard tails anyways. I had a few ideas percolate over the years for some myog projects, but switching to dropper posts none of them ever materialized. They're still floating around back there somewhere haha.

Bindle / Mr. Fusion - I just posted a comment to the PDW BikeRumor article I linked above, mentioning the Mr. Fusion and its Porcelin Rocket product link.

  Good on ya!

[Yogi the Barry]

After all those thoughts and ramblings, I never really addressed the original question...
My 3-cents to minimize swaying:
Try to only use the seat bag for highly compressible items, like jackets, sleeping bags, etc.
Putting heavy/dense items in a seat bag is probably about the worse place to put gear on a bike, other than the wheels/fork. High and rearward added weight on a bike raises the CG and makes it harder to keep weight on the front wheel during technical climbs. Try to load heavies as low and centered on the frame as possible.
The shorter you can get the roll-over and the tighter you can get the compression straps the better.
Put the heaviest/most dense items in first and as low in the bag as possible. Then stuff the lighter stuff in last.
I went from an original Revelate seat bag, which I usually only packed about 1/2 full [really too large], to a smaller custom bag made by Greg Wheelright, which was easier to get stuffed and firm, and swaying is much less.

[joeydurango]

All 1st-gen seatbags do sway some, as noted above, but I've gotta say I see most seat bags swaying WAY more than is inherent in their systems.  In my experience it appears that most people either don't pack super well, or don't really tighten the straps down, or both.  I used a Revelate Viscacha for years with no genuine issues, although I always wished for that last little bit of movement on rough trails to go away - and that's why I dreamed up the RailWing idea on a tour in 2014.  Once Andrew and I went through several prototypes, the final version ended up super-bomber, and you can't break it in a crash.

Still, OP, until you can get a Coconino w/ RailWing later this year, you can pack so that your current bag is nice and filled out (no empty space that creates big wrinkles when compressed), roll as short as possible, and don't be afraid to really crank on those compression straps (all four!).  The seatpost strap really doesn't do as much as people think, it's mostly in the seat rail compression straps (although the post strap does have to be tight).

Re: Porcelain Rocket vs. PDW, I think we're going to see more of this in the near future.  I'm already waiting for someone to rip off the RailWing idea.  As I've mentioned before, it's one thing when everyone builds on the work of others, that's how creative processes work.  CDW begat Revelate begat PR and Bedrock and so on... but that's different from simply copying a crucial design parameter (or wholesale copying an entire bag design, which has happened to us multiple times at Bedrock) because one doesn't care to truly innovate.  I figure with all the big companies jumping on the bandwagon, they're not gonna spend the money or time to prototype and develop unique systems - they're just going to send some bags to Asia and say, "make this, but cheaper".  Kinda, you know, like how Sinyard took some Ritchey frames and sent them to Japan for the first batch of Stumpjumpers.  But I guess next year or whenever Specialized will claim to have invented bikepacking, just like they did MTBs, 29ers, short chainstays, and fatbikes.  Sheesh...

Oh, what?  Sorry, my bad, got a nerve there.  I'll stop. 

[Adam Alphabet]

.....I figure with all the big companies jumping on the bandwagon, they're not gonna spend the money or time to prototype and develop unique systems - they're just going to send some bags to Asia and say, "make this, but cheaper".  Kinda, you know, like how Sinyard took some Ritchey frames and sent them to Japan for the first batch of Stumpjumpers.  But I guess next year or whenever Specialized will claim to have invented bikepacking, just like they did MTBs, 29ers, short chainstays, and fatbikes.  Sheesh...

Oh, what?  Sorry, my bad, got a nerve there.  I'll stop. 

Ugh, The 'S' is already starting to infiltrate by sending kooks out to my hood on huge bikes to shoot fashion spreads. And we all know where the name Revelate came from. 

But back to the seat bag swaying...
Everything Joey and Yogi said... They pretty much got it all.

[pro_out]

Seatbag sway is the least of my worries, its the attitude sway that concerns me

[sherpaxc]

Hey Joey, that's a pretty awesome concept. I've always been bothered by the bag sway. When I'm in the market again I'll have to give that bag a shot.

[dream4est]

My point earlier was a bit vague. I meant to predict that in a few years all bikes will have dropper posts, making all current designs 'cept a few obsolete. That is why I believe the best bags will only attach to seat rails, like the bags I have been making for a few years now. There will be simpler attachment methods devised as well, eliminating the overuse of webbing.

I know some of you may disagree, but its coming people. Droppers on all bikes. They already are on most bikes over 3500 retail USD for many 2016 models and brands.

[joeydurango]

Yeah, Mark, I hear you.  I've been working on a rails-only concept too, with droppers in mind.  I don't ride with one - although I'll be (somewhat reluctantly) spec'ing one on my next build, just to see what all the hubbub is about - but I can see their place.  I just don't think that place is on all bikes, although since they are hot right now that's what is probably going to happen...

[Smithhammer]

....I meant to predict that in a few years all bikes will have dropper posts, making all current designs 'cept a few obsolete...

I'll be very disappointed if that prediction comes true (though I honestly doubt it will).  Regardless, all the more reason to have an extra Thomson or two on the shelf.

[Adam Alphabet]

I've been riding with a dropper all year. I would never go back to proper mountain biking without one. So much faster and safer for aggressive rowdy descending, which I love.

I did the AZT 300 this year without a seat bag to utilize the benefits of the dropper and the CTR with a small seatbag of my own design. Similar to Marks; small, attached to the rails only, out of the way and of course full dropper compatible.

For bikepacking I want my bike to handle as closely to how it does unloaded. I like to ride aggressive expecially descending and don't want my loaded bike to take the fun out of shredding new trails. For me that means using a backpack which most prefer not too, to balance out the weight so the bike isn't too heavy. Small bar rolls, and small seat bags and dropper posts from here on out for trail bikepacking.
As always each their own, people come to their own preferences over time. For me that means small tight seatbags that weigh less than the items they're carrying.

[dream4est]

I agree with Adam- small front rolls, small seat bags and dropper all day with backpack for real trails. I am in Moab now testing my setup with flats, 120mm fork, 750mm carbon riser bar and now Minion 2.3's and I can ride all the shuttle runs with my Scott Spark and hit 95% of the moves with no bag sway or tire rub. I cant even fathom riding this stuff with a huge seat bag and a straight post and having any fun. I am getting faster up and overall as I dial in this concept too. I need any help I can get.

I may just keep the aggro tires on for AZT750 too.