Keep seat bag from swaying?

[Adam Alphabet]

Glad this tread changed directions, for a while it seemed like preaching.

It's pretty civil around here I think...you want preaching check out the other mountain bike forums, whoa.

Btw, Addy - looking at your gear list, and how minimal your bag config is, I'm seriously impressed.
............

Thanks!

[dream4est]

To clarify - are you saying you brought no sleeping bag nor pad on any of those trips?

I had a bag and pad on the 2nd trip. MH phantom 32. 2010 Azt750. The other 12 no bag or pad. I was new to az and unsure of the moves.

2014 TD was the worst 2010 CTR was bad too. Weather can make it nearly deadly if one isn't truly hard or willing to lose.

[elitheknife]

Do we need to move this to the Ultra Racing forum? 

C'mon boys, not everyone is out there racing.

Scott

[joeydurango]

Mark, to be fair to the less "hard" of us, weather can make things nearly- or completely-deadly for absolutely anyone... wrong place at the wrong time, even with solid gear, can kill ya.  Mother Nature always wins in the end. 

My personal preference (not for everyone) has typically been to weight those odds in my favor by taking more than is absolutely bare-minimum necessary, just to account for those unpredictable bad weather scenarios.  I carry more weight than some, but if I break a leg out there on a rainy, cold night, I can hole up and not shiver to death.

Just noting this for newer bikepackers who might read these forums and, as Scott alluded to above, feel like one's not bikepacking (or bikepack racing) without going ultra-gonzo-light and taking on the connected risks.

[Yagi]

A big company ripping off Porcelain Rockets Mr. Fusion....
http://www.porcelainrocket.com/product/mr-fusion-seat-system/

Not trying to drag up old drama in this thread, but Moots has been doing this design for years now on a more commuter-based look.  I'm not saying PR ripped-off Moots, but I had this system from them, probably 5 years ago at least.  Oh, and it never swayed. 

http://moots.com/our-bike/components/other-3/options/

[joeydurango]

Yagi, if I'm not mistaken, that's simply a variation on the old-skool post-mount rack (prone to breakage due to the heavily cantilevered design, hence the 5lb weight limit), and not really at all like the Mr. Fusion in fundamental concept or use.

[dream4est]

Joey I just want people to realize one does not need all that expensive gear and/or bags to really have an adventure. Everything is temporary, even suffering. And the concept of "hard" is relative to ones speed, ability and situation. Most of us here are "hard" in ways we dont really understand until we get into trouble. Instinct to survive is not to be underestimated. Its huge and in all of us.

[Yagi]

Yagi, if I'm not mistaken, that's simply a variation on the old-skool post-mount rack (prone to breakage due to the heavily cantilevered design, hence the 5lb weight limit), and not really at all like the Mr. Fusion in fundamental concept or use.

Yeah, Joey, I definitely get that.  Even I broke one, but once I wrapped a couple Voile straps around it through the seat rails it got much stronger.  I know you know there's a lot of ingenuity out there(Railwing, case in point), and things can be made much better or used totally differently just by having someone else in the room. Just because I have a big-ass wrench, that guarantees I won't use it like a hammer, right?  Scott's got a great product, and I'm positive he can capitalize on a product flaw, even if it is completely coincidental.  In my line of work, intended use and actual use are far different. 

Sorry for any thread derailment.  Carry on.

Steve

[joeydurango]

Steve, I sure hear you on intended and actual uses being different - I see it all the time!  "What do you mean, you tried to huck that XC bike off a 6-foot ledge?"  Or, conversely, "You want the $5k enduro bike to ride the Meadow Loop?!"    Smart use of that Moots product, using extra straps...

Got you, Mark.  I agree that you don't necessarily need all the coolest gear to have an adventure.  Just want to make sure new folks don't think that bikepacking = going out with no "normal" sleep gear 100% of the time.

[bmike-vt]

Not trying to drag up old drama in this thread, but Moots has been doing this design for years now on a more commuter-based look.  I'm not saying PR ripped-off Moots, but I had this system from them, probably 5 years ago at least.  Oh, and it never swayed. 

http://moots.com/our-bike/components/other-3/options/

Just an FYI:

The Tailgator costs $165... Carries 400 cubic inches (~6.5 liters) and is limited to 5 lbs.
I don't believe its waterproof.
It works well for randonneuring (have known some forum peeps who like it for that purpose...)
And it really looks like a take off on the seatpost mounted rack system. The internal rack is doing the work here, cantilevered off the seatpost.

For $185 you can get the PR Mr. Fusion.
Holds 6-13 liters, comes with a waterproof bag, in your choice of fabric and color.
The PR concept is really about stability, not load holding.
The weight is held primarily by the strapping through the saddle rails, and stability is gained by the internal mini frame.
I'm sure the triangulation to the seatpost adds a bit of weight capacity... but unlike the moots, if the rack on the PR failed somehow you would still be riding...

[kq100]

@Andy - I don't know about PDW being a "big company" [guess it's relative], but definitely looks like an identical concept. Now a tiny niche market is divided... Bummer... Sounds like legal issues could be looming.

On the tangent thought of seat bags... What I'd like to see - any bag makers out there listening? - is a seat bag which attaches to the top of the seat stays and better utilizes the space closer to the seatpost and lower on the bike. Not really much volume space to take advantage of on a FS bike, but most hardtails have quite a bit of unused room above the rear wheel.

Edit addition - both designs need to ditch trying to make the twos rods coming together at the seatpost clamp totally rigid. Aluminum rods with holes = stress failure at seat collar. Aluminum ring around carbon seatposts also a bad idea [which is noted by PR]. The seatcollar joint needs to a heim joint or something a bit softer to allow some degree of freedom. Just the triangulation of the two stays coming together at the seatpost is going to really cut down on swaying. Two carbon stays at the bottom of the tray, forming a triangle with an apex at the seatpost joint [plastic/fabric/webbing heim equivalent]... or even attaching at the top of the seat stays... and you have another similar manifestation of the design concept.

If you are looking for a bag manufacture who utilizes the space from seat stays to saddle check out Rogue Panda Bags. Their Picket Post bag does just that. 
http://www.roguepanda.com/shop/picketpost-seatbag/

[Yagi]

Just an FYI:

The Tailgator costs $165... Carries 400 cubic inches (~6.5 liters) and is limited to 5 lbs.
I don't believe its waterproof.
It works well for randonneuring (have known some forum peeps who like it for that purpose...)
And it really looks like a take off on the seatpost mounted rack system. The internal rack is doing the work here, cantilevered off the seatpost.

For $185 you can get the PR Mr. Fusion.
Holds 6-13 liters, comes with a waterproof bag, in your choice of fabric and color.
The PR concept is really about stability, not load holding.
The weight is held primarily by the strapping through the saddle rails, and stability is gained by the internal mini frame.
I'm sure the triangulation to the seatpost adds a bit of weight capacity... but unlike the moots, if the rack on the PR failed somehow you would still be riding...

Or, for no cost at all (seeing as how I have all these damn parts already), I could take the seat post rack from the Moots design, tuck it under and loop it through the bungee cords on bottom of the PR bag, maybe bend it a little bit, and *pretty much* have a Mr. Fusion.  I just took a much more expensive way to get there, seeing as how there was no such thing as a PR Mr. Fusion on the market when I started acquiring bags 5-6 years ago.

Thanks for helping clarify, though, bmike-vt.

Steve

[bmike-vt]

Or, for no cost at all (seeing as how I have all these damn parts already), I could take the seat post rack from the Moots design, tuck it under and loop it through the bungee cords on bottom of the PR bag, maybe bend it a little bit, and *pretty much* have a Mr. Fusion.  I just took a much more expensive way to get there, seeing as how there was no such thing as a PR Mr. Fusion on the market when I started acquiring bags 5-6 years ago.

Thanks for helping clarify, though, bmike-vt.

Steve

I am planning to do similar with my Revelate... I just need to buy a seat post collar with the rack mount on it. I have spare tubing from other projects that I can use as stiffeners...

[chrisx]

What works for me? Move the seat post stuff to the top tube.


The good
It holds double the amount of a seat post bag.
It does not sway.
Much softer than the stem if you stop suddenly.
Much easier to mount and remove than a bag under the seat.

The bad
Knees bump it when you stand on the pedals.
(fix)  Move your butt back over the saddle while you are standing.  (better technique anyway).

The ugly
The prototype lasted so long; I never sewed a nice one.

Plenty of room for improvement_



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uu-COF6DBCc

[snakebite]

Now that 1.5 years have passed and porcelain rocket mr fusion is not available any more (If I understood their blog correct) ...
Any new findings on equipment that fixes the swaying issue?

[RonK]

Still the best.

Bedrock Coconino with Railwing.

[elitheknife]

Now that 1.5 years have passed and porcelain rocket mr fusion is not available any more (If I understood their blog correct) ...
Any new findings on equipment that fixes the swaying issue?

Quite the contrary...Mr. Fusion is more available than ever.  We build them in large batches once a month, but these batches sell out quickly.  Email me to be put on a pre-notification list for the next batch. 

Scott

[Biggus Duckus]

I saw this posted on a website I frequent, it looks like a great idea.  I can't vouch for it personally but Woho is reputable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPR2u-qZhIk

http://woho.bigcartel.com/product/xtouring-bikepacking-anti-sway-basic-post-service

[joeydurango]

Still the best.

Bedrock Coconino with Railwing.

Why, thanks!

I saw this posted on a website I frequent, it looks like a great idea.

As for that "Woho" thingy - not to put too fine a point on it, but it appears that they've taken our RailWing concept and, well, made everything good about it bad.  I won't go into it here, but if you read up on what makes the RailWing tick and why the design looks and operates the way it does, you'll quickly understand why that Woho gadget is a poor idea.  Kind of like using an band-aid when you need stitches. 

[Adam Alphabet]

I saw this posted on a website I frequent, it looks like a great idea.  I can't vouch for it personally but Woho is reputable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPR2u-qZhIk

http://woho.bigcartel.com/product/xtouring-bikepacking-anti-sway-basic-post-service

Looks like a Minoura double bottle mount with the wings twisted.
http://www.minoura.jp/english/accessory-e/sbh300-e.html

I made a dropper post bag using one of these in prep for my first AZT a couple years ago. Never used it as it didn't meet my 'strict weight weenie' criteria for race bags but it worked well enough.