Middleburn cranks and chainrings

[SlowDave]

Anyone here have experience with Middleburn cranks and chainrings?  I am thinking about trying their 20-30-40 set up on my Fargo for some fully loaded touring.

[Firedog62]

Our Fandango 29er Tandem came with a set of Middleburn cranks front and rear. If they come stock on a Tandem I think your fully loaded touring rig will be just fine. We're a Tandem team with a combined weight of over 350 lbs and we haven't destroyed them yet. Good Luck with your search.

[ltlquail]

I have 3 sets of RS7's. My oldest set I purchased second hand 11 yrs ago and those cranks endured their first few years of life with me under some heavy daily trials use. I have used those same arms with triple, double and now uno rings with no issues.

I run square tapers and I have purchased 2 more sets in the last few years since CRC has such good prices on them now. Don't be fooled by the price these are easily as good if not better than any crank on the market which can cost two to three times the price. In my opinion these are the King headset of the crank world.

[SlowDave]

Thanks.  I am particularly interested in the 20-30-40 gearing.  Has anyone used it?  How does it shift?  What front derailleur are you using?  My goal here is to make the Fargo climb like my Willys in 4 wheel low.

[Firedog62]

Our Tandem runs a 22-32-44 front gearing with 12-36 cassette in the back. Very close to your 20-30-40 gearing. Like Itlquail ours is also a square taper BB and we have had zero problems with them. With the 12-36 cassette we don't get into the granny gear much but when we do it is like your Willys in 4 wheel low. The only problem we have is putting to much torque to the ground and spinning the rear tire while climbing hills. Traction becomes a major issue at slow speeds and if you can control that you'll be able to climb walls with it.

[Firedog62]

Almost forgot shifting is good. The bike came with sram X9 grip shifter which we didn't like so we switched to sram X9 trigger shifters with sram X9 derailleurs front and rear. Even with the long cable runs the shifting feels no different then my single bike shifting. Let us know how you Fargo projects turns out.

ps. Don't ever go big ring to big ring shifting has a tendency to stop working with a 44-36

[SlowDave]

Thanks again.  I will detail what works and what doesn't as well as cost when I get this done.  I have an e-mail out to Middleburn right now on what is needed to run their 20-30-40 rings.  A ti Fargo is featured on the charlie the bikemonger web site but there are no comments on how it actually works.

Right now my bike has Apex shifters and a 12-36 cassette with an X9 rear derailleur.  It has never shifted smoothly on the rear.  I have had it back to the LBS where I purchased it 4 times and they do the best they can.  This last weekend I stopped by another shop and they couldn't get it right either.  My very limited experience with SRAM has not been good whereas my almost 30 years running higher end Shimano has been very good.  The ti Middleburn/Fargo is using an xtr front derailleur and I can't remember what they used for shifters.  I am going to use whatever will work, most likely bar end shifters but I would really like to do the old style top mount shifters using Paul Thumbies.  I am a bit hesitant in regards to the Thumbies because throwing another variable into the mix when there are already compatibility concerns might not be a good idea.

[Area54]

To run a triple (XT crank) on my ti fargo and Apex, I ended up using an old X9 3x9 trigger I had in my spares bin, just to shift the triple only. I mounted it on the end of my aero bars. Works very well.

Invest in a Gore Professional cableset, I install these a lot and use them on all my SRAM bikes, shifting is superb and well sealed from contaminants. Not cheap, but in my experience the shift quality is so good it makes the price worth the quality shifting.

Is it an X9 10 speed rear mech with EXACT Actuation, or older X9 with 1:1? There is a difference with cable pull ratio. I use an Apex rear mech with my 12-36 with no issue, just a bit heavier.

[SlowDave]

The project is moving forward.  I got a quote on the Middleburn cranks and chainrings, $446.00.  That is just the parts.  I spent a fair amount of my LBS mechanics time discussing the options.  I think I owe him a case of good beer.  I decided not to go with the Middleburn because there have been shifting issues with the ten speed version.  The idea of spending $446.00 to get more frustration is not appealing.  I am using Shimano Deore cranks because I can get them for 10 speed with a 22t inner chain ring.  I am keeping the X9 in the rear.  I have had a lot of trouble with it but I have read and heard many good reports on it.  I think my problem is most likely shifter related and not the actual derailleur.  I will be using Sram bar end shifters and Cane Creek brake levers.  The front derailleur will be Shimano but there is some question as to which model due to the frame braze ons.  A new Shimano chain is also included.

The entire cost for the above is $425.00 parts and labor.  If it works I think I'll make it two cases of beer.  I ordered the parts today and I will have the work done in the middle of March when I get home from a trip to New Mexico.

If this doesn't get me the "Willys in 4 wheel low" low I am looking for I will try putting an Actiontec 20t inner ring on it.

Many thanks to those that helped here and elsewhere.  It was surprising to me how hard it was to get good info on such a project.

[Area54]

I forgot to mention my XT cranks are older 9 spd. I ended up using a Tiagra 10spd triple front mech, as it had the correct pull location for fenders. I've used these mechs before on many builds, really happy with them with the range, cage shape and durability. Tuned up well, a few mods to it with shaping and tuning the cage to suit lift and drop requirements.

I'm running a 22 x 36, really good bailout gear.

I'll take some pics as soon as I can.

[HOser]

Hi, SlowDave, my experience may be useful to you.  I've been using an ISIS Middleburn crank on my SS for some years now, and I've been very happy with it.  I just built up a new frame a few months ago (a 29er hard tail) and like you I wanted 20/30/40 gearing for those long days with a loaded bike.  I decided to go with Middleburn again, this time with the new X-type Middleburn cranks with a compact triple spider.  I had one installation issue, but figured out a solution, and I'm very happy with my choice now.

Here's my crankset after I've assembled everything.  I got all the parts from MTB Tandems and assembled the spider, arms, and rings myself:


The issue I encountered was that my Shimano bearing cups were slightly too big to fit inside the small chain ring, there was an overlap of a few thousands of an inch. A dremel tool and sandpaper made short work of the problem, I sanded down the outside of the cup and took off a bit on the inside of the small chainring:


Now everything fits (barely), and no problems since:


Final drive train:


Complete bike, just to take this opportunity to brag a bit (very happy with my new Waltworks!):


BTW, I'm using a standard SRAM X0 front derailleur (direct mount) and it works great.  I've even noticed the small 40 tooth chain ring gives me better clearance over logs and such.  Many more pictures of my build and Middleburn cranks are here:
https://plus.google.com/photos/115353005259405023937/albums/5665042399852793713

[SlowDave]

Thanks, great info and great pics.  Your experience is consistent with what I have heard regarding 9 speed.  So here is the big question, does the 20-30-40 gearing meet your expectations, that is from theory to actual use? 

My eyes glaze over talking about gear inches (must be a result of my misspent youth).  However I intuitively get the idea of gear development.  With that in mind what is your actual speed in your lowest low at 80 rpm cadence on pavement?

With my present gearing I am right at 5 mph at 80 rpm cadence.  Most discussion on gearing assumes you are better off walking based on a 4 mph walking speed.  I walk a lot and I think my speed is average and my Garmin 410 tells me my walking speed is a lot closer to 3 mph than 4 mph.  I believe pushing a loaded bike up a steep grade would probably be about 2 mph.  Traction issues aside this implies I can go a lot lower in the gearing dept.  Furthermore I am not a racer and I honestly find I don't need the higher high end.  Thus it makes sense for me to move lower.   

[Area54]

You have to consider how good your balance is at those speeds, and how well you can keep the front wheel on the ground.

Super low can be useful, but sometimes in the field you'll still be walking.

[HOser]

I guess everyone has their own way of interpreting gear ratios and how they apply to our individual riding. The 29er on which I'm running this 20/30/40 crankset (with a 11-34 cassette, BTW) replaced a 26er and my math showed the 20x34 granny gear on the 29er is the same roll out as the 22x34 on my 26er.  This was enough to make me want a 20T chain ring, I didn't want to lose any low gears jumping to a 29er, this Middleburn set up did that for me.

Also part of my decision process was that, like yourself, I have a Fargo.  I got a complete bike back in 2009, it was my first 29er.  I love it but the stock 22/32/44 x 11/34 gearing is harder than my old 26er.  For bikepacking, I definitely suffered a bit on the steep climbs here in the Colorado mountains.

I also wanted to stay away from 10 speed.  I'm annoyed that you can't get a reusable chain link in a 10 speed set up, I rotate and clean chains regularly and love my SRAM 9 speed power links.

What Area54 said makes total sense, there is a practical lower limit to gearing.  My 20x34 gear on my 29er is above this limit for me, I use the heck out of it.  In practice I am finding lower gears on a 29er are even more useful than their equivalent on a 26er because of enhanced traction.

I imagine any SS riders reading this dialog about super-low gears are shaking their heads and want to tell us to just HTFU

[Done]

I'm annoyed that you can't get a reusable chain link in a 10 speed set up, I rotate and clean chains regularly and love my SRAM 9 speed power links.

I just ordered a pack of 10-speed KMC Missing Links a few days ago. According to KMC's site, they are re-usable.

[Ultra Magnus]

You have to consider how good your balance is at those speeds, and how well you can keep the front wheel on the ground.

Super low can be useful, but sometimes in the field you'll still be walking.

Everything depends on the situation, but if I can keep the pedals turning, even at a walking speed, while keeping balance and maintaining my line, I'll stay on the bike.  the reasoning is, if the terrain flattens out a bit, to go faster all I have to do is upshift and keep moving.  If I got off to push, then I have to stop, throw my leg over, and try to get started, which eats up time and energy. 

A few years back I was regularly doing this steep power-line road climb.  The road was very poorly maintained and was very irregular, rocky, with many rain ruts, washed out areas, with the occasional sand and gravel patches.  I got really good at riding really slow up steep climbs.  I just checked my gps data from a couple of those rides and my average speed on the steepest parts was around 3.1 - 3.4mph...which I still think is faster than trying to walk up steep loose terrain in cycling shoes (not to mention how uncomfortable it is to walk in cycling shoes).

My $0.02

BM

[SlowDave]

I agree on the balance issue.  I haven't tested it (yet) but I believe I would be happier spinning at 2 mph than pushing a fully loaded bike.  Maybe I should have loaded up the bike and tried it on rollers at 2 mph first.   

My hat is off to the single speed guys and the guys doing those amazing divide rides day after day.  I am just out for fresh air, exercise and scenery and maybe a bit of adventure.