Moonlander - hot or hype?

[Area54]

Planning next bike purchase, cruising our distributors pages, looking at pugs and saw the Moonlander. Anyone riding one? My main purpose will be beach/island running, but maybe planning a trip to MN for work in January, so a fat would come with me to get some snow experience.

Is the extra width worth it? My sand plough (old hardtail) atm runs some 2.5 hookworms on a 40mm rim  and it of course performs average, next step is a fat but hmmmm, 3.7" or 4.7"?

Thinking Alfine 11 too, proponent of built, not bought.

[bmike-vt]

I can say that in snow there have been times when more float would have meant less pushing... my limited amount of sand riding suggests that options for obese tires here would help as well.

When my front Larry wears out I'll be getting a BFL to replace it on my Pugs. Not sure what I'll do for the rear...

With an IGH you may be able to fit the obese tires (on narrow(ish)) rims into a Pugs, without giving up gears.

[RossC]

Thinking Alfine 11 too, proponent of built, not bought.

My experience with the alfine 11 has been total disappointment. It just never worked like it should. I'll be sending it back shortly but won't be touching an IGH again. I love the concept and was prepared to forgive lots of flaws but when it can't even hold a gear without skipping despite hundreds of hours fiddling and 2 trips to the LBS, it made a chain and cassette look reliable


edit: And i'm thinking moon lander for beach riding as soon as they hit Aus. At least I now know they float thanks to MC's video from alaska http://lacemine29.blogspot.com/2011/09/lava-coast-adversity-entertainment-and.html

[Area54]

I know what you mean - I have 2 skipping gears on a SRAM i-motion 9, built into my Cannondale Onbike.

Did your LBS follow up warranty with Shimano Aust?

I was also contemplating a rohloff, but must weigh up the extreme beef of this option, and the cost for what essentially might only be a sandrail. Nexus/Alfine 8 might be enough.

I keep checking Dirtworks webconnect for stock availability, but may only be brought in on special order.

Apart from some minor gruppo differences between pug/moonlander, I guess the real q? I have is the wider tyre gonna be that much of an advantage/disadvantage over the 3.7". I'm very well versed in sand and mud driving with my 4x4 and understand the principles of a narrower, longer footprint (an often discussed topic around the campfire) but different variables on a pushie.

With sand, you are constantly climbing a 'wave' of sand that rolls in front of the tyre, the longer and narrower the footprint, the better float and less resistance of the 'wave'. Widen the tread and the 'wave' you are pushing gets wider too, adding resistance. Buuuut, the increased surface area may provide additional float - depends on the weight of hte vehicle. Tyre pressures come into play too.

I have no idea what goes on with snow, but happy to listen and learn...

[afie]

Forget Dirtworks. Buy from JensonUSA or somewhere else in the States that have cheap frame shipping.

[RossC]

I have heard through the grape vine that Dirtworks has ordered a SINGLE moonlander in the first batch. Thats ONE moonlander for the entirety of Aus which is due in March/April. Draw your own conclusions on that one

[gregclimbs]

I was all set to get a moon after they were outed...

Then I rode one back to back at interbike.

FOR ME, the extra width (15mm at the bb) was too much.  My legs hit the seat stays a LOT on the ride.

I am unsure how much extra float there is to be had... the pugs takes a 80mm rim with BFLs.  So the additional footprint cannot be huge.  Probably would be good for really soft snow and really soft sand though...

I came back from the show and ordered the parts to build a pugs...I see a lot of stumblef*cking in my future...

g

[RossC]

I was all set to get a moon after they were outed...

Then I rode one back to back at interbike.

FOR ME, the extra width (15mm at the bb) was too much.  My legs hit the seat stays a LOT on the ride.

I am unsure how much extra float there is to be had... the pugs takes a 80mm rim with BFLs.  So the additional footprint cannot be huge.  Probably would be good for really soft snow and really soft sand though...

I came back from the show and ordered the parts to build a pugs...I see a lot of stumblef*cking in my future...

g

Is that a function of the frame size you test road or your height at all? It would suck to spend that much money and then find its a leg basher

[gregclimbs]

Is that a function of the frame size you test road or your height at all? It would suck to spend that much money and then find its a leg basher

It may well just be me.

But actually, had that discussion with a friend who was at interbike with me.  At the show, I rode a medium (both pug and moon) which is what I normally ride and would buy.  One of the things we came up with with was that to make the moon work for me, maybe going to a large and moving the cockpit a scosh forward would do the trick...

But a couple of things seemed to me to push me to the pugs...

1) I am glad to see that BFL fit on 80mm rims on the pugs (from this post: http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bfls-gfs-pugsley-734886.html ) and am unclear as to how much extra float BFL you get from running the same tire at the same pressure on the 100mm rim.  I think the difference measured out will be <10mm in extra width.  And I am not sure that I could tell the difference.

2) I really like that when I did spoke calculations for my chosen pugs hub/rim/offset that the spokes for l/r and f/r are all one size... making it trivial to bring spares and replace

3) I like the idea of f/r swap-ability.  Even if few have used it.  Even if I never use it.

But like all things setup, it is personal and you have to go what works for you. And fwiw, (and mikesee can correct me if I am wrong) but there weren't many places in his video where the pug had to walk and the moon rode.

I like the moon.  I am glad the moon exists.  But for me, for now, the pug it is.

[RossC]

And fwiw, (and mikesee can correct me if I am wrong) but there weren't many places in his video where the pug had to walk and the moon rode.

Thats the real clincher isn't it. Paging MC....

[cousinmosquito]

A friend with a Pugsly rode a Ti Salsa fat bike Muk luk? at Interbike. He was raving, said his Pugsley was likely to be for sale soon. I imagine they are from two completely different price brackets tho.

[Area54]

Well, I ended up getting a small muk frame/fork set, a 16" pug and an 18" moon.

My wife is very small, and was unsure if the standover on the pug would suit her, the muk frame is a tad lower at the seatpost end with a very sloping top tube, to allow for the suspension corrected gemoetry. So plan was to build the pug, test ride, if it wasn't suitable then build onto muk platform. Turned out well, the pug was fine so now have a muk frame to shift.

Bought a moon for me. Oh man, it is haaaawt. I'm more of a function over form kinda guy, but when I built it it was triggering synapses in my brain that get excited when I see tactical response vehicles, APCs, podium baja/desert trucks and rockcrawlers. I took it out on our Friday shop bunch ride (road) and had an absolute ball, but that's not the reason I went this way. The moon will be carrying myself and our 6yo daughter (mid mounted LOCT seat) plus gear, so the float will be interesting to test on inland sandy tracks. Bikes gotta be torn down and rustproofed, if I can get that done in the next few days, then beachy time next weekend.

Visually there seems to be a huge difference between the stock pug (marges and endo/larrys) and the stock moon (clowns and bf larrys) in tyre width, almost seems like another class. Width in our polished, soft sand can go against you too, but time will tell. Our beaches and island tracks have very clean, fine grain white sand with very little organic debris, making it slippery and difficult to maintain traction. Outback red sand is superfine and even worse, as a mate told me of the sand on his outback 10 deserts epic.

Thank you Surly

[RossC]

Well, I ended up getting a small muk frame/fork set, a 16" pug and an 18" moon.

You'll love it! I couldn't be happier with mine. I'd be interested to see where you are planning on taking it inland as there are some amazing routes in there that are just begging to be ridden on a fatbike. If only didn't have 2 dozen other plans for trips....

I guess the 10 deserts epic might be a good place to start looking for some ideas, even better if you know the guy who did it! What a wealth of information he must be.

[Area54]

Russ is just back from ITI. Gotta catch up for a fat ride and will get the goss then.

I'm planning mostly the bay islands at this point - Bribie, Moreton, Straddie, Fraser. Fraser will be a week+ trip. Then there are south coast nat parks (Bundjalung etc). Even floating an idea to do Cape York - ride from Cairns to the tip, take in a few side trips (Cape Melville etc and other remote beaches) then catch the freighter from Bamaga back to Cairns. 5 year plan

[Area45]

Congrats on your fatbikes. I've got a Medium Mukluk and I love it. It's probably my favorite bike right now. I'm building a lighter wheelset for it. Marge Lite rims to shave some weight.

[Area54]

If the moon didn't exist, I would have preferred the black ano muk. Already wifey is making noises about marge lites, also considering a nuvinci for her too.