New to BP, looking for advice on setting up short trip for 3-4 riders

[djlarroc]

Hi guys, my names is Alex. I'm from Denver, CO, and have been MTB for about 5 years now. Each year, I have been going farther and riding more trails. I had an idea of bikepacking last summer, and am really glad to have found this site!

I am planning a short ride w/some friends (to get our feet wet) this summer. Maybe about 30 miles +/- with one over night stay. All singletrack. 4 riders. I have been doing alot of reading on BP, and have seen many suggestions for bivvys, ultra-lite tents, and tarp-tents.

Many seem to be quite expensive, and more than we were hoping to spend. I do understand quality, water-resistance, and weight savings are a big part of it. But since these will be shorter treks, not sure if we really need to invest that much money. Especially since this is just a try-out type scenario. I'm sure, I will most likely go again, but probably not solo, so spending $200+ on a 1 man tarp-tent won't work for me.

I wanted to ask for suggestions on less expensive equipment and more of a game plan for multiple riders. I have been looking at the REI Camp Dome 2 tent (on sale now $69). It's packed weight is listed at 5lbs 6oz. My plan was, if we purchased 2 of these tents, the rider carrying the tent could have some of their equipment carried by another rider to make up the difference. Being that it is a 2 person tent, only 2 tents would be needed for 4 riders..  

Also, what sleeping bags could you guys recommend? I do have mummy style bags, but they are most likley very heavy as they are not high priced bags, and mostly bought for car camping. I have also looked at the REI minimalist bivvy. Seems light and priced well. All the trips would be in the summer. Also, all the trips would most likely be 1 overnight. What else would be needed? Water filtration? I will keep on reading, but would appreciate some suggestions.  Winter is a great time to buy camping gear haha.

Thanks!

[Curtis C]

Hey Alex, Welcome to the site.

Have you considered just using a tarp large enough to cover a couple people in sleeping bags? If you plan your trip around good weather a tarp will be plenty shelter. http://www.rei.com/product/808940/kelty-noahs-tarp-12-x-12   I'd think if you are OK with the Bivy idea you would just fine with your bag under a tarp.

If a tarp isn't appealing I'd suggest the bivy route before using a 5+ lb tent.
Try to buy gear you will continue to use if you find bikepacking to be something you would like to continue doing. I bet you would be looking to replace the mentioned tent before your second trip.

Sleeping bags are tough to recommend. This http://www.rei.com/product/778156/rei-halo-40-sleeping-bag bag can be had had for a little over a hundred till the 24th and would likely do just fine.

What do you have in mind for route? an out and back on the CT?

Curtis in COS

[offroute]

Whatup, Alex

You got it--the joy of a quick mission, partly, is having a solid weather forecast. [Echoing Curtis' sentiment,] I would skip the tent altogether. You'll have more fun on singletrack a little lighter. The wife and I did a four-day jaunt with sleeping bags on a small ground sheet plus a 5 x 8' lightweight tarp for emergency/whatever. Worked out great. I'd bring a simple tarp or disposable emergency bivi bag before I'd bring a tent on a couple-night outing.

Caveat: If the mosquitoes are thick I would bring a bug-proof shelter.

Too much untested gear, rigging and technique can be slightly overwhelming (even sketchy)--another reason to keep relatively minimalist.

Having four bikes could be useful in constructing a tarp shelter, I'm thinking

Sleeping bag: We got a couple of the REI UL series bags while they still offered them. They're down bags with minimalist materials and features like half-length zippers. I'd look for something like that with a ±40° rating and use clothing to supplement the bag if needed. My 40° UL bag compresses down to cantaloup size and has worked great for three-season use. I'm sure another mfr has a similar product. Not scrimping on a decent sleeping pad can keep your minimal bag from being too minimal. I prefer ensolite because it can't fail like an inflatable. I cut it down to fit from above shoulders to below hips, and use my extra stuff for a pillow and under the legs.

Filtration: I prefer a Steripen with pre-filter, but the pump-style filters like MSR's are a viable small & light solution (clean and dry before storage). I don't reco the MSR Myox system. Some peep carry the old-skool purification tabs. I carry them sometimes as backup to my Steripen, but I think they still leave the water somewhat funky tasting. (Would like to hear from the voices of experience there, have never been forced to use them.)

One bummer about short trips is you can have just about as much stuff as a long trip. But so it goes--you gotta shakedown the kit. Not to be discounted, too, is the sea legs you get after a couple days out. You work out the few kinks, acclimate, and become a riding machine with the sole goal of having fun.

As always, I'm interested in what the denizens offer up on threads like this. (TIA!)

Keep stoked!

Mike

[djlarroc]

Thanks so much for the replies guys! Helps a ton! Yes, most likely our route will be on the CT.

I went into REI today, and wow, that tent I was looking at is kinda big. There was a BA flycreek ul2 next to it, so that didn't help either lol.. One reason I was looking at that tent is I like to go off-roading/camping in my jeep. Super remote 4x4 trails, and so the tent was also going to be used for that. My other tent is an 8 person tent.

I also saw the minimalist bivy and was impressed w/the size.. It's amazingly smaller than my current sleeping bags. So I'm thinking I may buy the minimalist bivy and go the tarp route as you guys recommend. I may still grab the tent for jeeping, or just buy a cheaper tent.

Are bivys warm? Seemed so small compared to the bags, i'm trying to imagine how people keep warm. Maybe a bivy and a mosquito cover? I rode kenosha pass to georgia pass last summer and the bugs were eating me alive during the day. Can't imagine an overnight haha.

[offroute]

A,

Generally, a bivy bag is used to storm-proof a sleeping bag, as opposed to insulating. I have slept in a bivy bag with a jacket a couple of times, but would only reco it for the odd warm night out or alpine style mission.

But hey, in a $ pinch that down parka and fluffy pants seem a lot like a sleeping bag...

[Curtis C]

The Bivy alone will not be enough to keep you comfy. They are designed to have your sleeping bag stuffed inside and that gives you a system that will be wind and water resistant.

[djlarroc]

Ok, gotcha!

So, as you guys said, prob most cost effective and practical plan *to start, is to take 2 light tarps, and sleeping bags. If we sleep sardine style, should help stay warmer lol. Just a lil worried about the bugs though.. Tarps could sheild most water depending on where we setup camp.. I'll research the water filter more, and read up more on food.

[djlarroc]

Found the boxes for my mummy bags.. 20° rating and 3lbs... Kinda heavy, but comparing to other 20° bags, seem in the range. I would have to get a less insulated bag to get the weight down..

What other alternative is there for bugs? It's looking like I may just buy the minimalist bivy (bug screen), and a light tarp. If I sleep in shorts and spandex shirt, can prob still use the 20° bag.

Also, what hydration packs are people using? I have a CB, but it's a smaller 70oz pack. Good for nearby, short trails.

[Curtis C]

I'd say find a way to use the bag you already have. It will prolly be a little warm in summer but you could unzip and be comfy. I think you will find the packed size of you bag more problematic than its weight.

Are you thinking about how to get some of your gear strapped to the bike rather than loaded in a backpack? Are you going to use some sort of rack?

As for food for a 1 nighter, just take ready to eat meals(pb&j, shelf stable meat on a bagel) so you dont have carry a stove or extra water to rehydrate. If you are going to carry a filter/purifier, 70oz will work if not I would take a couple full water bottles along.   

Another thing to consider is the rental gear from REI. Its a good way to try stuff before you commit to a certain gear.

Curtis

[Blammo]

I'm in the same boat as you.  I have a bunch of car-camping gear that is going to be too heavy to haul on a bike.  The first thing I did was order some bags to find out what I was going to be able to carry.  I ordered mine from a guy named Greg W. on this forum (I believe his id is 12Wheel) ...highly recommended.  I then attempted to pack up.  I discovered that it is not so much weight, but volume.  Not only is my stuff heavy --it takes up to much space too.  A new sleeping bag is where I can save the most space followed by my off the bike closes.  I have a 5 lbs tent too, but it really does not take up much space so I'm going to go with it for now.  I will probably switch out to a bivy/tent of tarp/bug net combination in the future.

I also built a spreadsheet of existing equipment weights, desired equipment weights and the cost/gram to replace.  This has not been very useful for determining what to buy next (maybe I should have done it by volume not mass), but it does make a good place to store the results of endless hours of research into which gear to get.  I hope that helps.

[djlarroc]

I'd say find a way to use the bag you already have. It will prolly be a little warm in summer but you could unzip and be comfy. I think you will find the packed size of you bag more problematic than its weight.

Are you thinking about how to get some of your gear strapped to the bike rather than loaded in a backpack? Are you going to use some sort of rack?

As for food for a 1 nighter, just take ready to eat meals(pb&j, shelf stable meat on a bagel) so you dont have carry a stove or extra water to rehydrate. If you are going to carry a filter/purifier, 70oz will work if not I would take a couple full water bottles along.   

Another thing to consider is the rental gear from REI. Its a good way to try stuff before you commit to a certain gear.

Curtis

That is a great idea.. I didn't know REI did that.

And yep, you are right about the volume. My mummy bags seem pretty huge to carry. We're planning on getting seat racks of some sort, and maybe frame bags, and also attach something to the handle bars. Since, it's only an overnight, may not even need frame bags and handle bar?

I was looking at this backpack: http://www.backcountry.com/camelbak-h.o.s.s-pack-3l  I found it on sale locally for $65. It's pretty big for other uses, but if I get that, I can put a bunch of things in it, and may not need a frame bag? And w 100 oz, maybe I won't need to buy the water filter for an overnight?

[djlarroc]

I'm in the same boat as you.  I have a bunch of car-camping gear that is going to be too heavy to haul on a bike.  The first thing I did was order some bags to find out what I was going to be able to carry.  I ordered mine from a guy named Greg W. on this forum (I believe his id is 12Wheel) ...highly recommended.  I then attempted to pack up.  I discovered that it is not so much weight, but volume.  Not only is my stuff heavy --it takes up to much space too.  A new sleeping bag is where I can save the most space followed by my off the bike closes.  I have a 5 lbs tent too, but it really does not take up much space so I'm going to go with it for now.  I will probably switch out to a bivy/tent of tarp/bug net combination in the future.

I also built a spreadsheet of existing equipment weights, desired equipment weights and the cost/gram to replace.  This has not been very useful for determining what to buy next (maybe I should have done it by volume not mass), but it does make a good place to store the results of endless hours of research into which gear to get.  I hope that helps.

Thanks for the info. So, so far, you have only bought the bags? What did you end up buying? I will look up the seller.

How big is your 5lb tent? How many people? Were you planning on hooking it to your seatpost?

I also have 2 cheap bags that came w/my big tent. I think they are 40° bags. I'll check again how big they roll up.

I'm really not in too much of hurry except for wanting to take anvantage of the REI 30% sale. Other than, that, I can keep looking.

[beargrass]

my two cents on water,i have used the steripen two years now and love it,no taste,drinking in 90sec.' small',great support from the co.when i had a problem with an earlier model.but i wish i had the one that takes AA batt. on remote trips when you may resupply at a gas station the 123s are hard to find.
  if you go with the bivi make sure it has a way to keep the bug netting of your face or the little bast. will bite you right thru the screen

[jhl99]

That RIE tent at $69 seems very cost effective.  Some  points:

1.  The tent probably packs as 3 pieces:  poles, tent and fly.  Since the tent fits 2 people, you can divide up who carries which parts. 
2.  2.5 lbs per person for tent is not unreasonable.  My belief is that weight is not the issue everyone makes it out to be.  So what if your setup is a couple of more pounds heavier than 'state of the art'... will that stop you from taking the trip?

If you are using a rear rack, strap those bulky sleeping bags to the rear rack.... "out of sight out of mind" and forget about them.  Compactness is more of an issue with those who use  seat bags or strap things to their handlebars.  A word of warning though... do not put all of your cargo on a rear rack, bike handling with suffer.  It is good to balance the load front to rear.

I don't think it is wise to try to go ultra minimalist on your first couple or more trips.  The objective should be to have fun and enjoyable experience while gaining skills and knowledge.

My biggest concerns for a first trip in CO would be:
1.  Knowledge of mountain safety (assuming you are riding at elevation).
2.  Does at  least one group member have decent backcountry skills?
3.  Group size.  The more people you go with, the more inertia, and the slower you go, the more potential  conflicts, breakdowns, etc.  Plan to be flexible.
4.  Make sure everyone has a good means of carrying their gear well in advance of departure. Trail test the setups.   You don't want to be trying to figure out how to carry stuff departure day at the trailhead.

Have a backup plan for attrition.   You have a group of 4 now, but when it comes time to pedal, what will the group size be?  Will there be an impact?

Finally,  take a camera, take pictures, and have fun!

[djlarroc]

Thanks for the replies guys!

Well, I made 2 purchases yesterday..

I passed on that REI tent, in favor of this tent: http://www.amazon.com/Texsport-01904-Willowbend-Trail-Tent/dp/B000P9EZPW/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1325009196&sr=1-1

A friend of mine has the camo tent, and we actually used it last summer on a 4wheeling trip. Could use a bit better ventilation, but it was a decent tent. Only weighs 3lbs! and for under $25!

I also bought a camelbak m.u.l.e. My plan is to find a small enough sleeping bag, and try to fit it, into the pack.

Looking at this bag: http://www.amazon.com/Suisse-Sport-Adventurer-Ultra-Compactable-Sleeping/dp/B001TR7QZA/ref%3dsr_1_4?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1324886533&sr=1-4

Tons of reviews. It's about as heavy as mine, but packs considerably smaller. And the price is good too! If I can find a better bag for up to $60, I will get that one, if not, will most likely buy the Suisse.

Still not sure if I'm going to buy a frame bag, and or seat post rack. If I can mount the tent directly to my seat, and have the sleeping bag in my pack, I may only need to carry the smaller stuff in my pack, or a small saddle bag. Or have another person carry them, since I'll be hauling the tent.


What do you guys think?


As far as back country skills, I think that would fall on me, as the most experienced. I have done the most of the remote camping (although car camping)
, and I will read up to try to be as prepared as possible. We all have been MTB on singletrack for years, and we are all fairly good at bicycle repiars. Just need to get a good game plan going, and like you said, a test run before the trip.

So far, sounds like it's 4 going on the trip. Aside from me, one other person has already made his investment in the sleeping bag, saddle bag and rack.

[djlarroc]

Also,

What do you guys think about strapping water bottles and something else to the forks?

Found these pics from mtbr:




Maybe I can strap a shortened down, sleeping pad to the fork?

If I can't strap my tent to the bike seat, this may be how the setup should turn out.. Or maybe, strap the sleeping bag to the seat rack..

[offroute]

I think you're well on your way, Alex.

Lashing stuff wherever it fits is legit. I've run with stuff zip tied to my fork lowers, and re-purposed various small bags by lashing them in all sorts of places. Just try to keep the weight as low and close to center f-b that you can (sometimes it's not possible). I probably wouldn't use water bottles on the forks, but rather something less subject to vibration and hits. (Fat bike notwithstanding.)

One option for hydration and water storage is Platypus bottles from Cascade Designs/MSR. Once you have the hose adapter, every 2.5 liter bottle is a bladder, so refilling is minimized. I haven't used a CB bladder in years, and have used Platypi a lot. They will fit in some unlikely places, are amazingly durable and funk resistant.

I think seat post racks are too heavy and costly for the cargo they can carry. I'd rather spend money on a generous seat bag or rig up some other solution. In a pinch I strapped a fanny pack on my seat bag to expand it's capacity. With a hardtail, I'd sooner use a lightweight traditional-style rear rack you can actually load up with stuff without wondering if it'll handle the weight and abuse.

Be creative and don't think that because you haven't seen it done it won't work. Try for redundancy in keeping items attached to your bike. A silly keeper cord could avert backtracking miles to figure out where your sleeping bag fell off. Every bikepacking trip I've been on has been an experiment to some degree...the process of getting dialed has no real ending







Most importantly...stay psyched!

Mike

[djlarroc]

Awesome Mike!! Thanks for the pics!


What do you have strapped to your fork on the second pic? Were you wearing a pack at all that day?

[offroute]

Slime tube in nylon bag on near-side lower; spare tire on the other.

Pack: Yes. A frame bag would have helped a lot. I wound up using a 33(!) liter Osprey Talon. I had to pack six days of food right off the bat, so was really plugged. For such a large pack it was a good carry. Most of the time it was way less than full. Still, I'd like to keep my pack size down to 22 L if I can.

 

m

[djlarroc]

Alright guys, just an update on a few purchases I made lately.

I received my tent, sleeping bag, and seatpost rack. I got everything from amazon.com. Pretty happy w/everything. Think it should do me well on the trail.

Also, looking at buying a mini stove. Looking at this kit: http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-LIGHT-BACKPACKING-COOK-KIT-COMPLETE-BS-2-0-ALCOHOL-STOVE-/260934458733?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc0e7dd6d

Going to do a little more research, but I think that's what I will most likely get.

Anyone have any opinions on not to get this kit? Or point me to something better?

Getting stoked for this summer! Might even try to do a Moab trip in late March, to start.