New XTR, XT, SLX=10 speed with 11/36 cassettes

[12wheels]

Thanks for the advice.    My main concern is that I already have arthritis in the left knee and don't want to aggravate it.  I'll probably give singlespeed a try this spring and see how things work out. 

[Pivvay]

Sure thing. I know everyone is different but start with an easy gear. 32x20 (26er) or 32x22 (29er) for the front range, stand a lot and see how it goes. You might be surprised.

[John G]

I generally agree. Most of the push to 10 speed is to get everyone on a double crankset which allows better shifting in the front. Supposedly, shifting of a triple crankset has been the Achilles heel of road and mountain bikes. Now, with the double and a larger cassette you can keep the same gearing range as a triple for the most part.

But you can do that with 9 speed (or 8, etc.) as easily as with 10. So what use a 10, except for smaller steps between gears, which 75% of riders won't take advantage of?

[rocky rode]

As an old guy who's been riding for over 25 years I find the 9 to 10 argument the same one I was seeing when we went from 8 to 9 spd.  It's interesting that most everyone has now accepted 9 spd as OK.  Does this mean that in 10 years most everyone will be fine with 10spd?

FWIW, I still ride 7 spd when I run gears on my road and cross bike.  Dinglespeed on the 29er.  I feel the bigger gaps between gears is actually good for your legs once you give them time to adapt, and at 54 years, riding dinglespeed actually has my knees in better shape than they've ever been.  YMMV.

Gary

[IanB]

I generally agree. Most of the push to 10 speed is to get everyone on a double crankset which allows better shifting in the front. Supposedly, shifting of a triple crankset has been the Achilles heel of road and mountain bikes. Now, with the double and a larger cassette you can keep the same gearing range as a triple for the most part.

I think this is very true. I would add too that double cranksets will probably also have a reduced q-factor compared to their triple ringed equivalents, which would address one of the negatives of the external bottom bracket cranks, IMO. But, as others have pointed out - you could still do this with 8 or 9sp cassettes and get better durability or reliability in adverse conditions - the latter being important for me as the UK is renowned for being a bit muddy...

[frejwilk]

If Scott would prefer, I'll move this to the clssifieds section...

I've got a box full of 6,7, and 8 speed shifters, cassettes, various 7/8 speed front derailleurs, square taper cranks, and even a few wide chains for folks wishing to improve their drivetrain durability.

I'm not looking for money, but I'd be happy to trade for any fragile 10sp XX or XTR parts that may happen to come on anyone's new bike.

Hopefully I can help someone out!

FW

[DoctorRad]

i'd love to get a 2x4 or 2x6 setup running on the mtb (and maybe even my rando long distance road rig...)

I'm going to be using the best of 80s technology to solve this problem sometime soon. SunTour XC Pro Screw-on hubs - with the added benefit of grease injection ports - along with SunTour Ultra-6 freewheels which are six cogs at seven-speed spacing.

Re-space the rear hub to accommodate the narrow 6-speed block and you'll end up with a near-dishless rear wheel. Use 6 clicks from your choice of seven-speed shifters and you're good to go.

"Progress" isn't always better...

[imike24]

Interesting

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[Done]

Aside from the maintenance issue (which is very real!), I love more gears. Maybe some day we'll have sealed continuously-variable (CV) drivetrains. Infinite gears, no maintenance. The component manufacturers probably already have this technology, but they're forcing 10-speeds first so that we will be so frustrated that we won't hesitate to spend big bucks upgrading to CV in a few years.

OK, lame conspiracy theory. Hopefully the 2x10 setup that comes standard on my new bike won't drive me insane...

[rperks]

There are always Phil freewheel hubs, and god knows howmany freewheels still on the planet, many good ones, many crappy, just pick well.  Get an 8 spd chain and friction shift, far less to go wrong.  A rear spaced at 135 is almost dishless and builds into a solid wheel. 

I still have one bike with 9sp casette and let the chains go way to far hoping the rear casette will wear so I can justify replacing it with an 8 sp, but it keeps on going.  Strong wheel with 40 spokes, and it is the only wheel I have needed to true in the last 2 years. 

I realy wish there had been a push towards dishless/strength in the technology, but those of us going that direction are by far the minority.  Most people out there buying bikes just want it to work, and are willing to pay others to fix it when it is not working.  Also remember you do not see most of these guys when you are two days back in the woods.  Heck you are not likely to see them outside of a saturday morning in many cases.

This does not mean that is a bad thing, just they way of the mass market. 

[boddunn]

All Shimano are doing is keeping up with their competitors; it'll make for a lighter set up and the 2x10 is intended for XC not bike packing etc. I guess it's just progress.
 Having said that, 10 speed roadies seem to only get 2000 miles out of a 10 speed chain which is pretty bad. I think I'm on the cusp of becoming a retro grouch anyway so I'm definitely staying with 9 speed; 15 quid 2 or 3 times a year isn't too bad I suppose especially when diesel's over 2 quid a litre.

[DoctorRad]

There are always Phil freewheel hubs

Lots of other options on eBay including SunTour, Hope, Mavic etc

Get an 8 spd chain and friction shift

Absolutely no need to friction shift if you have cogs with 5.0mm (Shimano 7-speed) or 4.8mm (Shimano 8-speed) spacing: use old SunTour 8-speed thumbshifters, readily available NoS or nearly-new. If anything goes wrong, they have a friction option. SunTour 8-speed cogsets had a mixture of 4.8mm and 5.0mm spacing, so the shifters work 'well enough' with either Shimano spacing.

A rear spaced at 135 is almost dishless and builds into a solid wheel.

What hub are you using for that? IME, 7-speed or above means either a fair bit of wheel dish or closely spaced hub flanges, even on 135mm spacing.

Dr. Matt...

[rperks]

Quote
A rear spaced at 135 is almost dishless and builds into a solid wheel.
What hub are you using for that? IME, 7-speed or above means either a fair bit of wheel dish or closely spaced hub flanges, even on 135mm spacing.

Dr. Matt...

I run the Phil touring freewheel hubs, 6spd on my road/cross at 130 OLD and have set up but am not currently running these as 135 old 7 spd.  They are designed with high/low flanges to be built up with rear spokes of equal length (same spoke length as the front too), and only a very slight dish, spoke tension is super close to equal.  the flanges are 52,5 mm appart, same as on the cassette disk hubs they sell, but those do not build up as dishless.  I have not had these wheels out packing, but they do see frequent dirt with my 220lb self and loads of camara gear and water.  So far so good.

I run friction just because I have drop bars and end shifters on all my rigs.