Noob with a few questions.

[TheDudeAbides]

So I'm not new to backpacking, or adventuring on two wheels.  I am however new to "bikepacking"

I am readying myself for a Kokopelli Trail backpacking trip in April.  I will be going solo.

Will the OMM Sherpa rear rack work with a fully suspended XC bike with a 6" rear disc brake?

I am planning on carrying a total of 40 - 45 pounds between panniers, a rear rack, a front roll, and 30L backpack.

I have a 2003 Giant VT1.

I think some of the single track associated with the Kokopelli Trail would just be too difficult with a trailer.

...or should I suck it up and track down an inexpensive hard tail frame to build?  I just worry that I'd go over budget if I had to get a new bottom bracket, seat post, fork, and frame.  As well as my rack, bags, etc.

[bartspedden]

Hello TheDudeAbides!

The fact that you found this site means that you're ready for an adventure! I think like a lot of others, when I first started this type of adventure I was carrying a lot of gear, in fact too much gear. Enough gear that it got in the way of actual riding sometimes. But with time and experimentation, my kit weight was come down considerably and I have more fun because I can ride more.

40-45 lbs is a lot of gear and it may prove to be not a lot of fun to haul around. I would start thinking about ways to drop some weight.  You don't have to build a new bike to ride the Kokopelli or us a trailer. If you wanted, you could definitely create a DIY frame bag for your bike. Here's a good post to get you thinking: http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,5585.0.html

Also, take a look at some other peoples' setups: http://www.bikepacking.net/category/individual_setups/ for ideas about how to loose some weight.

Something to also consider is a 30lbs pack on your back. There's lots of threads on packs and how different peoples' bodies respond to different weights. Here's a recent'ish one: http://www.bikepacking.net/forum/index.php/topic,6056.0.html Personally I found that too much weight on the back does a variety of things that aren't fun, like saddle sores and numb hands. Other people get neck pain. And at that weight there's always the threat of the pack hitting you in the back of the head on a downhill. Other people have no problems at all with a back pack. So, before you hit the Kokopelli, I would figure out how your body responds.

Put your whole kit together and go for a ride on your local trails. You'll learn a lot about what you like and don't like. And then you can start sleuthing the posts here looking for ideas like the rest of us  

Also, as far as the OMM racks are concerned ScottM has put some serious miles on his and says they work on a FS http://www.bikepacking.net/reviews/racks/old-man-mountain-sherpa-rear-rack/

[Racingguy04]

I'm in a similar boat, I used to guide backpacking trips and I've ridden alot, but I just got into bikepacking last year. It sounds like you need to pair down your gear some, or are you including the weight of the bike in your weight estimation?

I've never used a rack so I can't speak to how well that will work Personally, but what I've read seems like the rack will work with a FS set up but it's not ideal.

When are you planning on riding the kokopelli trail? I'm planning on riding it the first weekend of april, though with all the snow we've been getting, I'm not sure if the La Sals will be clear by then.

I felt like a minimalistic back packer but my kit is even less when I'm on a bike. If you want to post up a gear list I'm sure we could help you weed out some of the unnessary things, or things that could be lighter.

[TheDudeAbides]

My typical backpacking weight is closer to 20 pounds without water or food.  Gear list is something like this;

Bag - Osprey Atmos 50
Tent - Big Agnes Lynx Pass 1
Sleeping Bag - Mountain Hardwear Lamina 35
Sleeping Pad - REI Lite Core 1.5 3/4 length
Mess Kit - MSR Pocket Rocket, GSI Pinnacle Soloist

Black Diamond lantern, KA-BAR BK-7 knife, Petzl Headlamp, Steripen pre filter and purifier.

Maybe I was overestimating my load.  I was considering tools, water, extra tire, tube, patch kit, food, some fishing tackle, fishing rod, extra pair of shoes, extra pair of socks or two, a jacket, and a rain suit.

I will be self supporting.

[Snowbd2u]

I first started bike packing I did the tent as well, but depending on your tent weight, a huge savings could be sol bivy, ground sheet and tarp. All relatively cheaper and lightweight.

[Racingguy04]

+1 on ditching the tent, especially in the desert. Personally I love a tarp, but a bivy could work too. Check out Integral designs sil tarps, they're super nice and light, but kind of expensive.
I would also ditch the lantern and the Ka-bar.

You could probably ditch the fishing gear (for this trip anyway) and the extra tire (check out a tire boot if you're worried about tearing a tire, or you can patch a tear with a dollar bill)

I do my best to bikepack without a stove, but yours sounds pretty minimalistic. I do skip taking a bowl and choose to just eat right out of my pot.

Water is a challenge on the Kokepelli trail, but being april, the few streams there are, should be running.

[danimal]

One of the biggest ways you might lose weight with a rack and pannier system is to ditch the panniers.  I used to go this way some time ago and my panniers weighed over 5 lbs (Jandd Large Mountain).  I replaced them with a couple of stuff sacks and 3 web straps per side.  Fill the bags and lash them on.  Free if you already have some sacks and straps around.  Even better, the load carries much more securely.  Most pannier systems have compression straps that snug the bag up but they don't do anything to snug the bag to the rack.  I have been very happy with this system.  Even better since I started putting a piece of 1/8" plywood inside to keep stuff from bulging through the rack side.  Only down side is they're a little less convenient to get into on the trail. 

You should also consider that when you put a rack on the rear end of a FS bike, that weight is "un-suspended weight".  This means that your suspension will become MUCH less active.  Put 45 pounds back there and you will be riding a hardtail.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight

Two other general thoughts on saving weight:

Buy a scale.  Without one, all of your efforts are basically guesses.  My food co-op sells a little digital unit for $15 of so.  It has transformed my base weight.  My base weight for an 8 day, high country, bikepack trip last summer was under 13 pounds and I actually DO carry a tent.

And, 23 years ago, as I prepared to ride across the U.S., I read this little piece of advice and it has always stuck with me.  In advance, gather all of your gear.  Divide it into three piles.  One pile is stuff that is ABSOLUTELY essential (think sleeping bag).  One pile that is probably pretty reasonable to bring (spare tire).  And the third is stuff that is a little indulgent.  Leave two piles at home.  IOW, skip the lantern and bring a really good tire boot.

[TheDudeAbides]

Update;  I won't be doing it on the VT.  Got a Sirius Pipedream to build.  VT will be the loner bike.

What do you think of a saddle bag instead of the pannier system?

What's riding with a front rack like?  I would figure it would be awful.

[TheDudeAbides]

Oh..  And tubeless tires..  I think I'm just going to run my Maxxis Minion 2.5s  I've never had a flat with them.  Should I bring a tube in case?

[Area54]

2 tubes, or 1 tube and patchkit, sewing kit. You're going solo, so you need to be able to fix your junk to keep rolling.

[Racingguy04]

I run slime tubes, and carry 1 tube and a patch kit. By saddle bag, you mean like a seat pack? I just got a revelate designs vicacha and it's pretty sweet. Mine fits my REI halo 20 degree bag, thermarest neo-air, montbell thermawrap UL parka, integral designs 8x10 sil tarp, and stakes/cord. That's a pretty significant part of my base load in weight and bulk. I haven't gotten a chance to take it for a ride yet, but my impression is that it'll carry the load just fine. The only perks I can think of for a seat pack vs panniers in the desert is it's lighter, and narrower for HAB.

the Sirius looks like it has a nice big main triangle so if you get/make a frame bag for that, it should carry a fair amount, or you can run a tangle style/half frame bag and still use your water bottle cages.

I haven't ridden with a front rack, but I would think as long as you don't have tons of weight on the front and your load is reasonably balanced you should be fine.

[pedalad]

how ya doin' there Dude -

for the record i'm a hardtail guy myself! i am in a similar predicament after some set-up swings and misses. I can't seem to make up my mind for my rear weight- if I'm going to use a rear rack w/drybag or rig up a seat bag homemade nonsense. but that's not what this is about. more about yourself.

i was wondering if you come to any revelatory conclusions about your set-up? an update from you might give me a bit of help..
 
did you throw a rear rack and panniers on your full-suspension? how did that 30L pack feel after some time in the saddle?

and as far as your gear is concerned. (just a few notes from a gear junky snob jerk - not really, kinda maybe kinda....)

+1 for the lynx pass. i'm all for the tarp set-up but there are negatives in my opinion. ya the tent is 3.5 - 4 lb. but it gives you good bug protection, it's reliable in moderate snow and rain, (the materials are beefier than their UL stuff i.e. fly creek, seedhouse, copper spur) and lastly, the price is right. i think the lone spring has since replaced the lynx pass. i'm not real sure. i like it!

-1000 for the lantern! i rock a field and motion bike light, a few small visibility lights clipped somewhere and a headlamp (princeton tec vizz). but would never consider taking a lantern.

I'm much lighter than boy scout or NOLS rigs, but am nowhere near the new balance AT fanatics shaving weight at all cost. Anyways, hope this new hobby of yours is treating you well! Have fun.

[TheDudeAbides]

how ya doin' there Dude -

for the record i'm a hardtail guy myself! i am in a similar predicament after some set-up swings and misses. I can't seem to make up my mind for my rear weight- if I'm going to use a rear rack w/drybag or rig up a seat bag homemade nonsense. but that's not what this is about. more about yourself.

i was wondering if you come to any revelatory conclusions about your set-up? an update from you might give me a bit of help..
 
did you throw a rear rack and panniers on your full-suspension? how did that 30L pack feel after some time in the saddle?

and as far as your gear is concerned. (just a few notes from a gear junky snob jerk - not really, kinda maybe kinda....)

+1 for the lynx pass. i'm all for the tarp set-up but there are negatives in my opinion. ya the tent is 3.5 - 4 lb. but it gives you good bug protection, it's reliable in moderate snow and rain, (the materials are beefier than their UL stuff i.e. fly creek, seedhouse, copper spur) and lastly, the price is right. i think the lone spring has since replaced the lynx pass. i'm not real sure. i like it!

-1000 for the lantern! i rock a field and motion bike light, a few small visibility lights clipped somewhere and a headlamp (princeton tec vizz). but would never consider taking a lantern.

I'm much lighter than boy scout or NOLS rigs, but am nowhere near the new balance AT fanatics shaving weight at all cost. Anyways, hope this new hobby of yours is treating you well! Have fun.

I ended up going the classic route;  Panniers and a trunk.  Went with the OMM Sherpa.  The 30l bag with 2 liters of water, a rainproof jacket, my smoking essentials(pipe, grinder, bag 'o dope) and my typical pocket load(keys, phone, wallet) wasn't bad after I got padded cycling shorts and a saddle that fits my lack of ass.  30-40 mile day trips I hardly notice it.  If I start to notice the weight on my shoulders or my traps start to hurt I simply readjust my hip belt.  No big deal.

However, I have been struck with the flu somehow since Tuesday.  I lost about 8 pounds, and when you're barely tipping the scale at 140# it's hard to justify a 150 week long ride through the desert.  I still feel pretty lousy and I'm trying to regain an appetite still.  My launch date was tomorrow.  It's not happening this month.  Which sucks, because now I'm going to have to wait until October when my work season ends.  Which means I'll be carrying a lot more water, more often, for longer periods of time.

This does award me the opportunity to fine tune anything I don't like about my rig and set up.  I'll be riding it to and from work for the entire season.  I work in a state park so I'll be doing lots of meeting up with my family and buddies at the end of my work week for a weekend camping at the park.  I should get a good feel for my rig, what I like, what I don't like, and by October I should be hungrier that ever for this trip, might I even say starved?

So far I like the panniers.  I went with Lone Peak Pack's P-500's and their standard trunk bag.  I figure about mid way though next week I'm going to ride from my home up to Waterton Canyon to do the first couple of legs of the Colorado Trail and hit some single track with them.  I don't seem to mind the rear weight yet, but then again I haven't done any technical riding with them yet.  I love the organization of the bags, the fact that I can pack round things in them is nice, and I can still hang my ass off the back of the seat for steep descents.  I won't be catching any air or drifting switchbacks, but that's not what this rig is about when it's loaded up anyway.

I think I did enough research that I feel comfortable with my decision.  Only time in the saddle will tell.  I love the look, the utilitarian minded uses, the storage space..

If I was going to do lag wagon supported trips, or shorter trips I may have been talked into the frame bag/saddlebag/gas tank route.  However it's just not my style at this point in time.  I also probably would have kept the full suspension frame.

I feel like I have the Jeep Cherokee of bicycles.  Gnarly enough to overcome most anything with the right pilot, room for your junk, utilitarian, simple, and economic.

I'm just seriously bummed that I'm not leaving with it tomorrow headed towards Fruita for a week in the desert

[asatrur]

If you are DudAbides from ADV, welcome!