Please explain me bikepacking

[bikemaniac]

Hi,

I am interested in bikepacking (but have no experience) and in my mind bikepacking equals touring with

1 Framebags
2 Saddle bags
3 Large tubular handlebar bags

and maybe some

Surly anything cages (or similar) on the front forks
Small top tube bags
Small water bottle holsters on the handlebar
and so on

Apidura and Revelate make such bags ... and a lot of other manufacturers.

Now my question is: Why have so many different bags (most of them not even water proof) and cages if you can have one single rear rack and a set of rear panniers? A Tubus titanium rear rack weights the same as 2 Surly Anything cages and the rack is rock solid and will carry 50 pounds. Then there is the weight of for instance 2 Ortlieb 100% waterproof panniers with a capacity of 40 liters which easily equals all the frame, saddle, handlebar etc bags. The Ortlieb bags might weight a few 100 grams more than ALL the bikepacking bags combined - but I am not sure. With the Ortlieb bags you can always take ALL your stuff into your shelter within seconds - not so with all the straps etc on bikepacking bags.

Please explain to me why bikepacking is so popular, if, from the first glance, the classic rear pannier setup seems much simpler. I do realize that fullies have difficulties with classic rear racks ... but on the other hand it is my impression that long distance tourers prefer hardtails anyway. Or is it simply because a mountain bike does not have any braze ons for the mounting of a rack?

Lucas

[Racingguy04]

Some people do bikepack with a rack and panniers, but generally, in my mind bikepacking is on narrow single track and I can think of 3 reasons why I'd prefer a soft bag setup to a rack and panniers.

1 width, sometimes trails are narrow and panniers on the sides will tend to grab bushes and trees.
2 weight, a rack is heavy and panniers aren't light. soft bags are much lighter and most bike packing kits are under 20lbs so you don't need a setup that can carry 50lbs.
3 weight distribution: a frame bag keeps the center of gravity low and makes the bike handle much better than a bike loaded with racks and panniers.

[Mista Bone]

Bikepacking is just bike touring with 1/3 of the stuff you'd normally take, LOL!

[Erik]

Bikepacking is just bike touring with 1/3 of the stuff you'd normally take, LOL!

And on the trail the 1/3 you do have you wish you didn't.

[vikb]

Try pushing a MTB with full size rear panniers up a steep singletrack trail for any length of time and you will be highly motivated to never tour again with bags that want to occupy the same space as you.

Not to mention you'll be cursing all the crap you packed and when you do get to the top you'll be riding the brakes the whole way down trying to keep your panniers and rack from flying off and/or breaking.

Having said that if you own panniers and racks don't stay home because you don't have the "right" gear. If you are riding smoother resource roads they work well enough and you'll learn a lot more about what you really need/like out on your bike camping than reading forums.

-- Vik

[mtnbound]

Lucas, glad you are looking to get into bikepacking!  Welcome to this exciting new world - it is well worth it.  To address you questions, I think the first issue is to ask what type of bikepacking/touring adventures do you intend to go on?  If you intend to stay on the road, then panniers may work for you.  However, if you intend to ride singletrack, particularly hilly or steep trails, then I think the general consensus is to get away from panniers for all of the reasons discussed above.

You will find that cutting weight is huge and leads to many benefits, like not feeling so worn out at the end of the day, being able to ride so much faster and further, being able to better control your bike downhill and around corners (my first time out, my bike was loaded to the max with gear, food, water, etc. and on a downhill descent, I hit a 180 degree switchback with a good size drop off and nearly went over the edge because my bike and gear was so heavy that I had trouble controlling it), and less wear and tear on you and your bike (the heavy load will greatly impact brakes, pads, suspension, etc.).   

Many trails eventually require some HAB/pushing uphill - as mentioned above, you will find out quickly pushing your heavy bike with panniers (which are located where you want to be when pushing your bike uphill - i.e. right next to the bike and by the rear wheel), that it is no bueno. So bike bags require one to cut size and weight of your gear - which is good!  Also, panniers often break on rough trails from all of the punishment it takes.  A decent bike bag won't break while on rough singletrack.

[bikemaniac]

I see you are correct about pushing the bike up a steep hill where the panniers are in conflict with you hips or thighs - I never considered that issue.
But I will never accept upfront that a pannier bike is heavier than a bikepacking bike. However I can see some stabiltity issues due to a lot of weight on the rear wheel.

When looking at peoples bikepacking pack lists or photos of their rigs, I typically see MANY bags, all kinds of bottle cages or surly anything cages. And as I mentioned above: 2 simple basic Surly Anything Cages for your front fork weigh the same as a lightweight rock solid Tubus rack. Then the trouble of dismounting all kinds of small bags from your bike when it is raining - using panniers is super fast.

I find the triangular frame bags highly interesting but those people employing these bags - are they using camel bags for water?

I have seen people do the Great Divide Trail with Tubus racks and Ortlieb panniers (Backroller).

Lucas

[mtnbound]

Panniers don't have to hold more gear/weight than just using bikepacking bags, but human nature lends itself to using the additional room in panniers and filling them up.  It is too easy when looking at gear choices to say, well, there is room in the pannier so let's take it.  It is possible, as you mention, to jam pack your bike full of bags in every possible space, which will then hold the same amount of storage as a panniers - then that argument goes down the drain.  Though, balancing the load in bags from front to back is worthwhile.

Not sure what you mean with respect to dismounting all of the bags when it is raining.  You should not be dismounting any of the bags (other than, perhaps, the one that holds your sleeping gear any maybe a clothes bag - and even then, I don't dismount any bags but just open them and take out the sleeping gear and clothes bag).  

The frame bags sometimes hold camel style water bags (with a tube coming out that you can attach to your stem to drink out of), but it depends on the rider and the size of the frame bag.

If you look at the pics of various 80+ racers in the Tour Divide this year (check out the racing forum on this website), all racers use bike bags.  However, in the end, to each his own. Do what works best for you.  All that really matters is to go out and ride and enjoy!

[RonK]

But I will never accept upfront that a pannier bike is heavier than a bikepacking bike.

Your tone suggests you post here with a closed mind, and you have just come looking for an argument.

[Wingnut]

Your tone suggests you post here with a closed mind, and you have just come looking for an argument.

Pot calling the kettle black...?

[vikb]

I have seen people do the Great Divide Trail with Tubus racks and Ortlieb panniers (Backroller).

Lucas

For sure. The GDR is a dirt road ride for the most part. Minimal technical single track.  If that's the type of riding you plan to do you can use racks and panniers.

Having said that I came back from my first run down the CDN GDR route [using racks and panniers] and ordered soft bikepacking bags. I still own the racks and panniers, but I rarely use them. I like riding my bike like a mountain bike and not having the extra complexity and fragility of racks and panniers means I can do that.

It sounds like you are a rack and panniers guy. If so use them. Nothing wrong with that. If you find they meet all your needs - awesome.  If you find some shortcomings you have other options for carrying gear.

[wahday]

I use panniers or not depending on the duration and nature of the trip. I would support the argument that the rack and pannier setup is a bit heavier. You are adding a rack to the mix afterall. And there is that temptation to fill the bags…

For me, there is also the issue of distribution of weight and my back end ends up heavier than I like with panniers. This can make handling a little squirrely.

But ultimately, I have never had any kind of catastrophic problem with using a rack and panniers. I love my OMM rack! Steep descents, HAB, its all as painful or easy to me regardless of how I pack it up. Its just the weight of the bike in general that sucks in those situations.

If I can get everything I need on the bike using the seatbag and frame bag, that is my preference. But if I need to extra room (usually because of the need to haul a lot of water where there are few reliable sources) I will put the rack and panniers on there.

To answer your question about the frame bag, I generally carry a 3l water bladder there and then any other soft stuff I can cram in. Regardless of what I put in there, it is usually heavy stuff. Having the heavier stuff in the middle of the bike and above the bottom bracket makes for a more stable and maneuverable ride.

[AZTtripper]

Sure the old ways still work, R and P setups have been around for ever and there not going away any time soon from the looks of things. But most people want to go with what's new. I would go so far as to say that rackless style bikepacking has caused a boom in the activity. I hate to call it a sport until you get to the racing and even then more then half the field is really in tour mode. I doubt we would be seeing such large grand departs with everyone using R/P setups.