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  Topic Name: Rain Gear on: March 03, 2014, 02:05:56 PM
Briansong


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« on: March 03, 2014, 02:05:56 PM »

Hey Gang,

Living in Arizona, don't have the luxury to test raingear (in action) to any solid extent. I used this last weekends storm (3-1-14) to test both my Goretex over socks and my Mont-bell rain coat.

First the over socks; I ride with knickers. There is a gap of about 6-8 inches between the top of the over sock and the bottom of the knickers. I used legwarmers to cover the gap. My socks were wet inside nonetheless. I think the rain permeated the legwarmers and simply ran down my leg, into my socks. How to seal the gap? don't really want to wear rain pants and gorilla tape sounds a bit painful. Ideas?

Second the rain coat; The coat is very light (7oz) and sheds water just fine. Problem is two fold, how to adequately ventilate? The pit zips are full open and on extended climbs, I am as wet inside the coat as it is outside the coat. Also it is size large. I need the arm length but the girth around the torso would honestly fit me twice. It is annoying, my knees whack it with every pedal stroke.

Does anyone have something that is a bit more svelt in the torso with an integral hood (or zip on)

Any help would be really great.

Steve
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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 01:15:20 AM
Adam Alphabet


Location: Vancouver, BC
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« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 01:15:20 AM »

Hi Steve,

Hah, testing rain gear, I'd hardly call it a luxury. Having grown up and lived in Coastal British Columbia my entire life I have a few opinions on rain gear and rain (it sucks).

Couple questions....

*Are you going somewhere/planning a trip that requires rain gear and you're trying to get some ideas/things figured out?
*Where/When are you going? riding in 37 degree rain in Vancouver in February is very different than riding in 90 degree monsoonal rain somewhere in Asia, is different than planning a 2 weeker along the Colorado Trail...etc.

*Were you uncomfortable or cold because your feet got wet? was it a safety concern for you at all?

*In My Opinion, there is no holy grail for rain jackets that is: light weight, super breathable and meet the demands of mountain biking/bikepacking. 

Adam.


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@adamalphabet

  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 05:22:42 AM
Briansong


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« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 05:22:42 AM »

Hi Addy,

Sorry, I did leave that entire question open ended. I am doing the TD this year. No, I was not cold. Neither my feet or body, but the storm was a warm one. I had dinner last night with a 2012 finisher, she just laughed. "You're not gonna keep your feet dry." I guess you being in BC makes you the perfect guy to answer this.

No safety concerns but hypothermia I guess could become an issue. Even at mild temps, had I gotten cold.

Thanks,

Steve

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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 08:36:18 AM
wahday


Location: New Mexico
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« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 08:36:18 AM »

I live in New Mexico so I also rarely get to test rain gear. But I have also spent a lot of time canoeing in Canada where I have endured more than a few deluges. What I would say with respect to your experience is - if you are biking in the rain, you are going to be wet. If it's not from the rain it will be from condensation in your gear. In my experience, goretex and other breathable materials are great and effective for things like hiking but less so for high aerobic activities where you are sweating a lot. It's just hard, even with vents, to get rid of the moisture faster than you are creating it.

Which isn't to say you shouldn't get decent gear, just that I think you can expect to have wet socks or be damp inside if you are riding. If you are stopped you will probably have more success staying dry. But moving also keeps you warm. In my paddling experience, I didn't mind the wet so long as I was warm and I was warm so long as I was active.

All that being said I believe the Showers Pass rain gear is going to be the best you can get. It's specifically designed for biking so issues of fit and key penetration points are all addressed in the designs.

If you are just looking to improve what you have, you might want to ensure all seams are sealed. If they aren't the water will surely get in.

Good luck
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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 09:52:14 AM
Marshal


Location: Colorado
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« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 09:52:14 AM »

On the TDR you will most likely see a bit of everything in terms of light to heavy rain and mild to quite cold temps.  So unless you bring several rain systems, by necessity your rain gear choice will be a compromise.

My basic approach to any self-supported multi-day race, especially the TDR, is to choose rain gear that can keep me warm enough to feel safe if I choose to continue into the storm.  And as a camp out night approaches it is much harder to continue into a storm if you don’t believe in your gear.  
Please notice I said warm enough, not dry, as pointed out you will be wet, either from the rain itself or condensation.
  
So an Event material rain jacket coupled with Gore-Tex knickers are my main TDR choices for maintaining core body warmth.  
For my hands I will use oversize, truly waterproof over- gloves.  For my head I will slip a shower cap over the helmet and will have a simple head band to pull over my ears.  And a thin baklava (more for my sleep system) that I may use in the cold mornings.
For my feet I will use wool socks, which I have tested in sub 40 deg F, wet conditions, and slip on toe covers.

And of upmost importance is a way to get & stay warm when camped up for the night.  Again as has been said it’s normal to stay warm while riding.  But for real peace of mind and real safety you need a way to get/stay warm while camped.

On shorter events (or for strong racers) you can go light on the sleep system and choose to ride thru a rainy night, but this approach is dancing with the risk of hypothermia for racers of modest capability.

In summary:
1)   warm hands and feet are most important for your psychological will to continue to “race”
2)   warm body core allows you to safely continue for hours on end in adverse conditions
3)   Sleep system that lets you get dry and warm when camped is extra important for the longer multi-days. Both for the psychological will to continue into the rainy night and to reduce the real risk of hypothermia.
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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 05:14:59 PM
bncrshr77


Location: Aztec, NM
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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 05:14:59 PM »

I'm a huge fan of Event rain gear.  I have a jacket from REI that I don't leave home without.  I agree that you might not be able to stay absolutely dry but good rain gear is huge part of any adventure for me.  Even when it's relatively warm outside a hard rain can freeze you in no time at all and your fun instantly becomes miserable.
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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 07:53:14 PM
ROADHOG


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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 07:53:14 PM »

Sew Gore gaiters, hats, socks using shoe trees, sleeping bag covers…

http://www.seattlefabrics.com/

https://www.fabricline.com/

https://www.google.com/#q=sew+gore+tex

Riders diss Gore and waterproof  coatings for heat retention.
 
A shingled to vent jacket as seen in fishing shirts ? Leave the front open, belted npot zippered ?

Polyester long sleeve crews or T’s with an OR Gore rain hat, poly socks may beat Gore..wet but not hot.

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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 08:04:25 PM
ROADHOG


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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 08:04:25 PM »


 rock bottom prices. Inexpensive rain jackets/pants are usually water resistant not long exposure waterproof. The $50 area is inexpensive use able and replaceable.

Colorado Cyclist carries high end cycle wear.

low end:

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/SubCategory___40000000226_200368536?ip_navtype=search&catFilter=&searchKeywords=200368536&ip_sortBy=priceAsc&filters=&ip_constrain=&pageSize=24&catType=&searchCategory=browsefilter&manNameFilter=&sizeFilter=&ip_state=&priceFilter=&currentPage=0&colorFilter=
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  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 12:25:43 AM
Adam Alphabet


Location: Vancouver, BC
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« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 12:25:43 AM »

As mentioned above, warmth is key. You're going to somewhat to really wet regardless.

This year (Jan 2014 onwards) for my single day mountain bike rides (3 1/2 to 5 hour) I've been using a combination of softshell tops and bottoms as my main rain layers combined with wool and synthetic layers underneath. This is experimentation. ***This is not at all my recommendation for TD*** It works for me for up to about 5 hours before it soaks almost all the way through and I start getting too uncomfortably cold. And by uncomfortably cold I mean in the shower for 30 minutes post ride to get my feet and hands feeling somewhat normal again. But while moving in the trails I'm good. So it's applicable in this situation.

For touring or bikepacking I bring a shell jacket, shell pants or knickers, rocky goretex socks and myog cuben waterproof lobster mitts that go over wool duragloves. This in addition to my sleep system and other packed layers and insulation keeps me confidently dry and safe feeling in rain/wet down to 33F. Plus proving to myself that I won't die when I ride in cold rain in February without shells gives me the confidence, feeling and knowledge of self to handle being wet in the mountains or foreign places with shells.

I just got a new OR helium 2 which I'll throw in my jersey pocket to test out hopefully it will prove to be more breathable than the northface diad it replaced. Driducks are neat too for certain applications but wet out eventually. Most breathable rain gear I've ever used though.

I've never done TD but have been a fanboy since before the DVD Smiley  I have toured and bikepacked quite a bit all over the world though. For me, I can't sleep when my feet are super cold, so I do things to make sure that before bed they're reasonably warm otherwise I'm wasting my time lying down. While I hate the feeling of my hands being so cold they're numb up to my elbows I can still function and ride like this so they're less of a concern for me. 

You've got to ask....
Will you put your down jacket on between your sweaty body and soaked from the inside rain jacket when you start to get cold? How will that play on the loft of the jacket?
Will you climb into your bivy and sleeping bag wearing your wet rain gear because you're wearing all your layers and are too cold, tired, lazy to take off the rain shells? how will that play on the loft of your down bag after a day or two?
What if the north sections this year are really wet and sloppy unlike last years dry and fast conditions, can you go from riding all day in the piss to sleeping in it? what shelter are you using?

Marshall's summary is pretty spot on and having completed TD and a bunch of the other big races I think more than many he knows what he's talking about. 

I would add that for something like TD where volume and weight are crucial over 2700+ miles your rain gear selection has to be looked at as part of your overall system; in combination with your insulation, additional layers and sleep system not independent of. The type of insulation (down, synthetic) should be taken into account with the type of rain jacket you'll be using, with the type of sleeping bag, bivy, tent, you'll be using.

I hope that was somewhat helpful or if anything gives you something to think about.
Best of luck in the big race, I'll be following along as I always do. Super stoked on everyone getting ready!

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@adamalphabet

  Topic Name: Rain Gear Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 11:44:54 AM
ROADHOG


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« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2014, 11:44:54 AM »

 
 Are CD racers supported ? To change wet for dry, light for heavy clothing, a dry bag - if sleep is necessary.

 
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