Rate my tarp setup

[trail_monkey]

Take a look at these pictures and tell me if either one of these tarp configurations look suitable for cold to cooler weather camping? Is a rolling Fox tarp. It is a diamond shaped tarp and it does not have a center eyelet to allow for a pole in the middle for a TP style configuration. I would love to use a tarp year-round and be as minimalist as possible. The only thing that keeps me from doing it is putting up with mosquitoes and other bugs in the warmer weather. I have used the smaller triangle-shaped configuration last spring on a campout that got down to the low 50s at night. It worked very well with my sleeping pad and my sleeping bag underneath me but I will say that my feet, which were down near the small end, got cold even with socks on. In all fairness even in my two man pup tent if it gets cool enough at night the same problem happens unless I curl my feet up in the fetal position to get them away from the edge of the tent.

I know I can buy a sleeping bag bivy and take care of the bug problem but at some point don't you start losing the benefits of minimalism and lighter weight when you start adding extra components? My two man pup tent fits in a small bag and only weighs 3.4 lb. But I would still love to get even less if I could. Anyways check out my two pictures of two setups I have experimented with this morning and tell me what you think of them or if you even have better ideas yet.

[Adam Alphabet]

I've been an exclusive bivy only, bivy/tarp camper for the last decade plus simply due to the light weight and lower packed volume. I find tents way overkill for most applications but each their own of course. In a search for minimal weight/volume I made my bivy and tarp with materials from zpacks. My totals are; bivy 151g, tarp with lines/locs 99g, and stakes 35g. Shelter Total ~285g or 10oz.

Couple things I've found over the years....
I only set up my tarp if inclement weather is a risk that night so usually end up sleeping in my bivy only under the stars. I've gone on many trips where I don't even bring my tarp and stakes and only bring my bivy if the weather is looking good. The bivy is not waterproof but bug/windproof which keeps me warmer in my quilt.
I think going with a light weight tarp and adding a minimal UL bivy is one of the best volume/weight bikepacking shelter setups you can get. Look to companies like Zpacks, Borah Gear, Oware, Titanium Goat.. I'm sure there are tonnes more now but I've kind of fallen off paying attention to the latest.

I agree with you about losing the benefits of minimalism by adding additional pieces of gear to your kit but in my experience the UL bivy is key to my shelter system. Lay it out, throw your bag and pad in there, climb in, done. If it's raining or might rain set up the tarp.

For tarp set ups I find the tighter the better to avoid the dreaded flapping all night long. 
The first pic looks like a great way to hole up in case the weather starts coming in. I'd try to tension as much as possible to avoid the tarp sagging down onto your bag and risking wetting out the foot end of your bag due to condensation if there's any contact.
The second pic it looks a little saggy which with some breeze/wind could get annoying in the night to the point of keeping you awake. I'd look at possibly adding a couple more guy lines with some line locs to tighten things up. Zpacks is your friend when it comes to this stuff. I use their micro line locs and z-line dyneema cord. 
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml#hardware

Love seeing different tarp set ups,
Best of luck in the tinkering!

[trail_monkey]

I've been an exclusive bivy only, bivy/tarp camper for the last decade plus simply due to the light weight and lower packed volume. I find tents way overkill for most applications but each their own of course. In a search for minimal weight/volume I made my bivy and tarp with materials from zpacks. My totals are; bivy 151g, tarp with lines/locs 99g, and stakes 35g. Shelter Total ~285g or 10oz.

Couple things I've found over the years....
I only set up my tarp if inclement weather is a risk that night so usually end up sleeping in my bivy only under the stars. I've gone on many trips where I don't even bring my tarp and stakes and only bring my bivy if the weather is looking good. The bivy is not waterproof but bug/windproof which keeps me warmer in my quilt.
I think going with a light weight tarp and adding a minimal UL bivy is one of the best volume/weight bikepacking shelter setups you can get. Look to companies like Zpacks, Borah Gear, Oware, Titanium Goat.. I'm sure there are tonnes more now but I've kind of fallen off paying attention to the latest.

I agree with you about losing the benefits of minimalism by adding additional pieces of gear to your kit but in my experience the UL bivy is key to my shelter system. Lay it out, throw your bag and pad in there, climb in, done. If it's raining or might rain set up the tarp.

For tarp set ups I find the tighter the better to avoid the dreaded flapping all night long. 
The first pic looks like a great way to hole up in case the weather starts coming in. I'd try to tension as much as possible to avoid the tarp sagging down onto your bag and risking wetting out the foot end of your bag due to condensation if there's any contact.
The second pic it looks a little saggy which with some breeze/wind could get annoying in the night to the point of keeping you awake. I'd look at possibly adding a couple more guy lines with some line locs to tighten things up. Zpacks is your friend when it comes to this stuff. I use their micro line locs and z-line dyneema cord. 
http://www.zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml#hardware

Love seeing different tarp set ups,
Best of luck in the tinkering!

You know I checked into the bivvi idea. I really love that idea. But I kept reading where  bivies were horrible for condensation and stuff like that. Can you elaborate? I would love to try a bivy but I don't know enough about them.

[trail_monkey]

Here is something I just set up that is a variation of the design in my first picture only I opened the floor space up a little bit and staked the corners out with two ropes on the front side. I have no way to really tighten the walls up as there's no grommets on the side to pull out with a rope but this one here will give me just a little bit more room to roll around side to side where as the other style I had was more of a cocoon type.

[Adam Alphabet]

You know I checked into the bivvi idea. I really love that idea. But I kept reading where  bivies were horrible for condensation and stuff like that. Can you elaborate? I would love to try a bivy but I don't know enough about them.

There are all different types of bivy's; from simple bug bivy's to mini tent's with poles etc.. The ones I'm referencing are UL bivy's with a windproof/netting top, imagine a light wind breaker nylon top and a waterproof bottom like that of a tent, usually silnylon or cuben fiber ($$$).

Condensation... lots of stuff online on this, check backpacking light forums for detail but in brief.... Site selection, your locale, proximity to water, outside air humidity, outside air temperature, breeze in the night, your body temperature, where you breath (into the bivy or out of the netting), fill material of your sleeping bag, all play factors. The permeability of the top of the bivy is the key. Waterproof bivy's tend to breath less and can lead to greater condensation issues. Breathable top bivy's like the ones I posted above generally breath better and condensation issues are better mitigated. Some nights you may get condensation and you could camp in the exact same spot the next night and not have issues depending on external factors.

A bug netting bivy may be an idea worth looking into. They do not protect against convective heat loss (wind sucking your heat away) as well as a breathable top bivy but they help deal with potential condensation issues better.
an example... http://borahgear.com/bugbivy.html

[Adam Alphabet]

Here is something I just set up that is a variation of the design in my first picture only I opened the floor space up a little bit and staked the corners out with two ropes on the front side. I have no way to really tighten the walls up as there's no grommets on the side to pull out with a rope but this one here will give me just a little bit more room to roll around side to side where as the other style I had was more of a cocoon type.

First pic looks more taught. Perhaps experimenting with a taller pole and staking down one side to the ground (protect from wind/elements) and one side just off the ground with a guy line (like you've got) would be worth trying. This is a set up I used with a 9x6 flat tarp that I really liked.
Looks good!

[trail_monkey]

 If you do not use the self-supported type of bivy does that mean the bivy is just laying on your face while you're sleeping? Check out this variation I just set up about an hour ago. It is the same set up that I put the pictures in before your reply only I opened up the back with a mini pole to allow air to go through for sleeping in not so cold temperatures.

[Adam Alphabet]

If you do not use the self-supported type of Bibby does that mean the baby is just laying on your face while you're sleeping? Check out this variation I just set up about an hour ago. It is the same set up that I put the pictures in before your reply only I opened up the back with a mini pole to allow air to go through for sleeping in not so cold temperatures.

You can tie up the netting off your face with a piece of shock cord. Most bivy's have a little webbing loop to attach some cording.

That tunnel set up looks neat.

[trail_monkey]

You can tie up the netting off your face with a piece of shock cord. Most bivy's have a little webbing loop to attach some cording.

That tunnel set up looks neat.

Thanks. I think in all but the most extreme condition's, the tunnel set up would be the best. It would provide good ventilation and airflow. In an earlier reply you said something about staking one side down and only using a guy line on one side. I assume you are referring to the lines holding the sides of the opening off the ground? What would that accomplish?

[trail_monkey]

I am on a budget. Would a supported bivy such as this be ok under my tarp as long as the sleeping bag I use can handle the temps I will be expecting or would I still be better suited with a waterproof bivy under my tarp?  It is the same Theory as the bug netting you linked to earlier. And I would ask the same question regarding that netting as well. This one just has the self-supporting pole is also I wouldn't have to worry about finding a place to tie my guy line up to hold it off my face.

https://www.backcountry.com/outdoor-research-bug-bivy?CMP_SKU=ODR00G4&MER=0406&skid=ODR00G4-BK-ONESIZ&mr:trackingCode=5055791B-82D5-E511-80F3-005056944E17&mr:referralID=NA&mr:device=m&mr:adType=plaonline&CMP_ID=PLA_GMm001&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PLA&k_clickid=8a8d23e3-ff11-48c1-9d5b-4a6ba6dd62df&gclid=CjwKCAjwjJjOBRBVEiwAfvnvBIj2FKEVnliADEjt8yYnlERqLNTTdZkMP-B2k9V-guUIy_B_i849PRoCa1kQAvD_BwE

[vermont]

I'm late in the game on this one but I hiked most my AT hike in 2002 with a rectangular tarp and a Walrus bug bivy (it was like this one http://www.backcountrygear.com/camping-bug-shelters/b-a-s-e-bug-tent.html).  The bug bivy weight more because it had two small poles but it was the best combination of space and protection. 
Your tarp is interesting but it appears to be more complicated than need be.  More material than necessary.  How much does your tarp weigh?
As far as cold weather, your sleeping bag is going to provide warmth and your shelter will provide, well... shelter.  If your feet are getting cold, you need a longer tarp or a warmer sleeping bag. 
Bugs are a pain in the ass.  If you don't want them then you are going to have to carry more.  Get into the DIY thing and you can do ANYTHING and be cheap doing it.  Some people use floorless bug protection for ultimate weight savings.
Last point...  Tarps are a different style.  Its incredibly nice to feel the air blowing around you.  You will end up under the stars more.  Self supported bug bivies really prove their worth under the stars.  They definitely require skill however and a willingness to remove yourself from security blanket of a tent.

[trail_monkey]

I'm late in the game on this one but I hiked most my AT hike in 2002 with a rectangular tarp and a Walrus bug bivy (it was like this one http://www.backcountrygear.com/camping-bug-shelters/b-a-s-e-bug-tent.html).  The bug bivy weight more because it had two small poles but it was the best combination of space and protection. 
Your tarp is interesting but it appears to be more complicated than need be.  More material than necessary.  How much does your tarp weigh?
As far as cold weather, your sleeping bag is going to provide warmth and your shelter will provide, well... shelter.  If your feet are getting cold, you need a longer tarp or a warmer sleeping bag. 
Bugs are a pain in the ass.  If you don't want them then you are going to have to carry more.  Get into the DIY thing and you can do ANYTHING and be cheap doing it.  Some people use floorless bug protection for ultimate weight savings.
Last point...  Tarps are a different style.  Its incredibly nice to feel the air blowing around you.  You will end up under the stars more.  Self supported bug bivies really prove their worth under the stars.  They definitely require skill however and a willingness to remove yourself from security blanket of a tent.

My tarp weighs less than 1 lb

[quixoticgeek]

My tarp weighs less than 1 lb

Mine weighs 198g...

The main thing I notice about your pitch is how much slack there is in the fabric. That's gonna flap like mad when it gets windy which will drive you nuts. You want a couple of tie out loops along the long edges so you can pin it down in the wind.

The other issue I notice is it doesn't look tall enough to sit up under. Sure you can do the crawl in crawl out approach, but being able to sit up under your tarp and do things out of the rain is really useful. It's rare that I'll pitch a tarp in such a way that I can't sit up under it (basically *REALLY* strong winds).

J

[quixoticgeek]

You know I checked into the bivvi idea. I really love that idea. But I kept reading where  bivies were horrible for condensation and stuff like that. Can you elaborate? I would love to try a bivy but I don't know enough about them.

Bivvy bags are only a problem for condensation if:

* You breathe into the bag. - You can fix this by breathing outside the bag. I sinch my bag opening down very small, leaving just enough space for nose and mouth
* You have a really useless bag - Buy a better bag - Alpkit hunka is very affordable and works well.
* The temperature inside the bag is the same as outside the bag - Nothing will breath in this situation and you'd have condensation no matter what you do.
* it's below -18°C on a goretex bag - Probably not an issue for most people

Apart from these situations, bivvi bags breathe great, work great and are a joy to use. After you've spent a night on a hill, falling asleep to the persied meteor shower across the milky way above you, and you'll never want to go back to a tent ever again.

J

[trail_monkey]

Bivvy bags are only a problem for condensation if:

* You breathe into the bag. - You can fix this by breathing outside the bag. I sinch my bag opening down very small, leaving just enough space for nose and mouth
* You have a really useless bag - Buy a better bag - Alpkit hunka is very affordable and works well.
* The temperature inside the bag is the same as outside the bag - Nothing will breath in this situation and you'd have condensation no matter what you do.
* it's below -18°C on a goretex bag - Probably not an issue for most people

Apart from these situations, bivvi bags breathe great, work great and are a joy to use. After you've spent a night on a hill, falling asleep to the persied meteor shower across the milky way above you, and you'll never want to go back to a tent ever again.

J

I have a bevy made with argon 90 (I think) and a mesh part over the face coming from Borah. It is their lightweight or ultra lightweight (I can’t remember).