Rear racks on hardtails - why don't people use them?

[dragonslayerrider]

I'm looking at getting my bike set up for bikepacking. I've noticed everyone uses seat bags and almost nobody puts racks over their rear tire like a typical commuter bike.

I get why people don't like panniers, but I don't understand why people aren't strapping dry bags to a rack rather than, or in addition to, a seat bag.

What am I missing?

[chrisx]

To save weight.  A rack weighs about a pound and a half or two pounds.  A seat post bag weighs what, a half pound?  On the road a pound or three means little.  On a steep mountain trail a couple of pounds means riding or pushing.  2 racks and 4 Ortlieb bags is about 10 pounds.  You can carry enough gear with 2 pounds of bags and no racks, with a little practice.

[bumbler]

Just weighed my Revelate Viscacha - 14.25oz. So, almost a pound. Newer seat bags might weigh less, though I'd guess something like the Porcelain Rocket Mr Fusion (with its mini-rack) weighs more. With a rear rack, add in the weight of a dry bag and straps.

But one benefit of 'soft' seat packs over racks is that they can (theoretically) be repaired in the field with a needle and thread (or duct tape. or zip ties). A broken metal rack? Perhaps repairable, but it's more complicated.

Not saying they don't happen, but either sort of failure is probably pretty rare.

I've used both; don't have a strong preference either way. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'd say it's personal preference, and not a huge deal either way. Run what works for you.

[dragonslayerrider]

Thanks for the answers folks, that makes sense.

[Howard70]

I’m definitely in the minority, but I tried seat bags & didn’t like the weight distribution nor packing options.  I bikepack a Salsa Muckluk (27.5 3” tires most of the time, occasionally fats) and a Salsa Cutthroat (29 2.2” tires).  Both bikes have the appropriate Salsa rear racks (Alternator on Mukluk, Wanderer on Cutthroat).  Depending upon the trip I’ll use a frame bag (Bedrock on Cutthroat, Salsa Expedition on Mukluk) and either Revelate Designs Nano Panniers (smaller, lighter but more fragile in thorny brush) or Bedrock Bags Hermosa UL Panniers (tougher, greater possible volume, but slightly heavier).  I’m really happy with these different setups. Both of these panniers are minuscule compared to the traditional set up described by Chrisx (I had a Salsa Fargo with full Tubus and Ortlieb as he described - OK on pavement, too much on dirt).

Crazy as it will sound an added advantage to the rack on the Mukluk - I also carry the bike when wandering about for months in an expedition truck.  Set up camp, grab the bike, some straps, a Silky Saw and take a ride foraging firewood.  I’ve loaded 50 lbs of cut wood on the rack and wobbled back to camp without falling.

Good luck!

Howard

[bakerjw]

I am of the school that believes that the more space that you have, the more unnecessary stuff you will take with you.

As for seat bags, I've seen some that wobble like crazy. I could never ride with those. Luckily, I got a Rogue Panda Picketpost and it is solid on my bike.

My wife and I did a variation of the North portion of the Tour Divide earlier this month and at one point I considered going with a lightweight rack. But the more I thought about at it, the more convinced I became that it likely would be a failure point due to the stresses involved with day in and out washboard, ruts, roots, rocks, etc...

[dragonslayerrider]

Thanks for the suggestions. I agree about packing more than you need. I do a lot of backpacking and have already learned that lesson, so hopefully I'll apply that to bikepacking. The more trails I ride, the more I see where the rigidity of a rack is a concern.

[MikeC]

I always opted for a rear rack for the GDR and other bikepack races -- even if we didn't call 'em that yet.  Proponents of the uber-sized seatbags tout their lower system weight and lower likelihood of failure.  And they're right on both.  What they don't factor in is the time spent stuffing/unstuffing them.  I liked the rack/bag system because it was so easy to get everything in/out, easy to keep things organized, easy to strap stuff to the top of it (like a rain shell, when I was overheating but could already see the next storm bearing down on me) for quick access or to dry it out.

Source:  https://lacemine29.blogspot.com/2017/12/divide-stories-bike-evolution.html

I prefer racks for winter tours too -- so much more insulation to manage that it's tough to cram it all into a seatbag.

[vikb]

I'm looking at getting my bike set up for bikepacking. I've noticed everyone uses seat bags and almost nobody puts racks over their rear tire like a typical commuter bike.

I get why people don't like panniers, but I don't understand why people aren't strapping dry bags to a rack rather than, or in addition to, a seat bag.

What am I missing?

I built up a hardtail recently and plan to use a rear rack with a dry bag strapped to it rather than a seatbag. That allows full dropper use and is more stable than a seatbag. I am just reusing an older OMM rack I had. If I wanted to spend some extra $$ I could have had an UL rack built, but it didn't seem to make sense when I already had something suitable.

https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/20/daambuilt-mega-krampus-bike-review-part-1/
https://vikapprovedblog.wordpress.com/2019/09/03/daambuilt-mega-krampus-bike-review-part-2/

[silvafair]

I am of the school that believes that the more space that you have, the more unnecessary stuff you will take with you.

As for seat bags, I've seen some that wobble like crazy. I could never ride with those. Luckily, I got a Rogue Panda Picketpost (https://rackadvisor.org/) and it is solid on my bike.

My wife and I did a variation of the North portion of the Tour Divide earlier this month and at one point I considered going with a lightweight rack. But the more I thought about at it, the more convinced I became that it likely would be a failure point due to the stresses involved with day in and out washboard, ruts, roots, rocks, etc...

This.
What everyone else said, plus -
If you're going to use rear panniers, then the bike will be horribly unbalanced. Been there, done that.
They don't work off-road. It concentrates all of the weight over the rear of the bike and screws up the handling. They seem more suited to smooth surfaces or low-speed use on rougher roads.
Frame bags etc are more durable when you're getting rattled regularly and lighter (or better luggage vs content ratio).

[offroute]

No handling issues. Use threadlock, and tie-wire the rack to the frame to back up the bolts. Do not overload the panniers -- water goes in the frame pack. Fill one pannier less if pushing the bike is planned. Disregard public opinion, go have fun. 

[KittyOnMyFoot]

I use a rear rack on a full suspension bike exclusively off road. The weight isn't an issue for me, breakage isn't an issue for a well-built one, I've got the discipline to not overload it just because it's there, and load balancing is easy enough. The benefits are that I have the option for as much space as I like (from two full panniers and a top bag to a tiny single fanny pack strapped to one side), it can hold my freediving fins (for swimming adventures), chainsaw/PPE (for trail maintenance) and obviously whatever camping gear I like (from ultralight stuff in favorable weather to full winter gear in the snow), I can still use the full range of my dropper post and rear suspension because there's nothing between my seat and the rear wheel, when I hang my butt off the back of my seat for a steep descent, the rack keeps my shorts off the wheel, and for road rides where I might be concerned about drag from panniers, I just use the top shelf and a narrow bag... way more flexibility in my opinion.

I'll second an OMM rack - I have actually sat on it just to see if I could (uncomfortable AF, but it ain't breaking and handles off-road bumpies without issue).

[bikelite]

Rear racks are coming back in style for racing even.

[Josh LaRue]

Another point to add.  I've been using a seatbag, but Since I'm not 6' tall.  I have little space between my rear wheel and the bag.  It makes it difficult to load the bag and not get tire rubbing.  Which means I can't put much back there.  A lot of the pack weight ends up on the front end, and handling sucks.  I'll be buying a rear rack soon for my El Mar.   

[miks]

The Tailfin racks seem to be the ultimate versions of modern racks. The carbon one gets down to 257g (~9oz), plus the weight of a dry bag and straps. I?m guessing that would be close to the weight of many seat bags. I myself have gone with a Revelate Spinelock, but I might consider a Tailfin in the future. Pricey, though.

https://www.tailfin.cc/product/pannier-racks/carbon-racks/carbon-rack/


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[evdog]

I'm looking at getting my bike set up for bikepacking. I've noticed everyone uses seat bags and almost nobody puts racks over their rear tire like a typical commuter bike.

I get why people don't like panniers, but I don't understand why people aren't strapping dry bags to a rack rather than, or in addition to, a seat bag.

What am I missing?

Nothing, really. 

Seat bags were a great option for a long time.  Lighter weight; generally work well on hard tails (what lots of people start bikepacking with); and many rack options in the past didn't hold up to trail riding.  Lots of riders still run hard tails and now there are dropper-specific bags for those with less clearance so seat bags are still a great option for many riders. 

You will see more riders coming around to racks with prevalence of big wheels combined with more riders wanting to use dropper-equipped full suspension bikes for bikepacking.  I've already seen a number of well known racers trying them out.  You can't run a seatbag on most small/med FS 27.5/29er frames.  I could get away with a Viscacha on my small 26er Ibis MojoSL but not even a dropper specific bag works on my 27.5 Mojo3 or 29er Transition Spur.  And that's with a rigid post.  I used my hardtail for bikepacking instead. 

I picked up an OMM rack 18mos ago for my Transition Spur.  The rack bolts to a custom thru-axle so there is no weight on the frame.  It allows similar or greater carrying capacity as a seat bag while allowing full dropper and suspension travel.  IMO if you can fully drop your seat the benefit to descending steep/technical trails by far outweighs any perceived or real limitation a rack would impart on handling.  This setup worked great on CTR and a few other bikepacks so far. 

My main concern was having mounting bolts rattle loose, but OMM uses standard hardware so I picked up spares at a hardware store.  The only issue or annoyance I've had is the end of the dry bag can bounce around if it hangs over the edge of the rack like in the pic; it can also slide forward/back a bit.  The easy solution was to pack a bit less, and strap down more carefully.  I'd like to try low profile panniers for the sides.

[MikeC]

My main concern was having mounting bolts rattle loose, but OMM uses standard hardware so I picked up spares at a hardware store.  The only issue or annoyance I've had is the end of the dry bag can bounce around if it hangs over the edge of the rack like in the pic; it can also slide forward/back a bit.  The easy solution was to pack a bit less, and strap down more carefully.  I'd like to try low profile panniers for the sides.

I started using racks on bikepacking missions about 16-17 years ago.  Droppers weren't yet in play, and I was committed to an FS bike, so it required having a custom rack fabricated.  But I had a connection and spent the $$$ to do it.

And ultimately didn't care much for it, largely because that amount of weight cantilevered that high and rearward (as in your pic) really changed the handling of the bike.  Enough that I wasn't enjoying the ride.

Which is the point, right?

Now, bike geo has changed dramatically -- and dropper posts have come into play -- in the ensuing decade+, such that I figured I should try it again.

And this time it's much better.

So far I've used this setup with light dry bags on each side of the rack, as well as some Revelate Nano Panniers on each side, and one quick hit where I just strapped a small stuff sack to the top.

They all work far better than my memory of that setup way back when.  Maybe it's the bike geo change.  Maybe it's that I've gotten smarter about how I load my kit.  Or maybe *I* have simply changed and the setup is exactly the same.  Dunno.

I like having full use of the dropper, so going forward I'm going to keep experimenting with the Nano Pannier setup, and with keeping my load light and tight within the constraints of that setup.

[evdog]

Looks like an awesome setup! 

I may just have low expectations on how a loaded bikepacking rig should handle, but I didn't find using a rack impacted handling much.  I was able to descend a lot of steep chunky trail I wouldn't have ridden on my old setup with seatbag and fully raised post.  I attribute that mainly to the fully lowered dropper post, though I'm sure the new geometry helps too.  My Carver 420 hardtail is 10 yrs old and has geo that was far from progressive in its time.  New bike was harder to climb on technical terrain as I had a lot more pedal strikes from lower BB height. 

One interesting benefit I found to having the weight levered back, is this noticeably helped to lift the front end of the bike up over rocks and obstacles. 

[IScreamTruckin]

I use racks. I just like the security and capacity racks offer. My camping gear isn't very heavy, but it is fairly bulky, so racks work well for me and my setup. Traditional bikepacking bags can work, but I really struggle getting everything to fit easily. My trips are also s24o's, so maybe I'd feel differently after a few weeks into a 2,000 mile journey.

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[ghostrider]

I put an Old Man Mountain rear rack on my Knolly Tyaughton hard tail MTB to put it to the test on my Arizona Trail through ride last month. I loved it. Lowers center of gravity and allows 100% dropper function. Used it with Revelate micro panniers. Was concerned they?d get in the way on HABs but no problems. I went with the fully attached rack with replacement rear axle also from OMM and it worked great.  Liked it so much doing same on my Salta Fargo Ti gravel bike ? trying it out July 7 on the Canada section of the GDMBR.



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