Stans, Slime, Liners, TP tubes, what do you use/do to reduce flats?

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

I absolutely love running std rims, std folding bead tires with std weight tubes because they feel so light and responsive.
However, for me, frequent flats from goatheads and road/trail debris is the trade off for running unprotected.

With bike packing and multi day trips (no support) in mind what have you settled on to mitigate flats
and what spares do you carry if any?

thanks

[trebor]

After 6-8 years of trying every combo and even making my own home made concoction for tire sealant and my own ghetto rim strips, the best advice I can give is a Stan's NoTube rim and Stan's sealant.

It works about as well as a true UST rim and UST tire, cost is fair, and your tire selection is nearly everything on the market.

For a worst case scenario I carry needle and thread, crazy glue, tube and a tire boot. I also carry a spare valve core. That will cover most issues you'd encounter.

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

After 6-8 years of trying every combo and even making my own home made concoction for tire sealant and my own ghetto rim strips, the best advice I can give is a Stan's NoTube rim and Stan's sealant.

It works about as well as a true UST rim and UST tire, cost is fair, and your tire selection is nearly everything on the market.

For a worst case scenario I carry needle and thread, crazy glue, tube and a tire boot. I also carry a spare valve core. That will cover most issues you'd encounter.

Hi trebor,
HaHa, I've only been seeking tire nirvana for about 4 years.
Looks like Stan's has really come along way. I can remember, back in the day,(never thought I'd ever say that haha )
when stan's was a DIY of latex house paint and oil to keep it from drying out.

Here's my one UST story. Might be time to look back into UST but I'm not looking forward to buying new rims and having them laced.
Back in 2009 I bought a set of Mavic cross with the big yellow plastic piece in place of rim tape.
I don't remember what brand of UST tires I put on but they had a folding bead and used slime as my sealant.
I believe I ran all year with out one flat.

However the following spring when I went to remove the tire to clean out the old sealant and replace it with fresh I could not
get the bead to break from the rim and I was in my garage with all my tools.
I ended up cutting the tires off the rim with an exacto blade.
I spent 90 minutes working on removing those two tires and saying to myself if I had to remove one of these
in the woods I'd be walking out. So I removed the yellow liners and put rim tape in.

Do you replace your stan's sealant annually? How do you deal with the mess if you removed your UST tire on the trail? Latex gloves?

Thank you

[THE LONG RANGER]

Two pumps, too (a normal one, and a micro one). And make sure they work

I sort of wish there was a DB on rim/tire compatibility for tubeless setups. For example, the Small Block 8 is a great tire, but it doesn't have a good rep. for tubeless compatibility with all rims. During the TD'12 Absolute Bikes in Salida were selling them like hotcakes, but wouldn't set them up as tubeless for anybody. I started out with SM8 tire tubeless, one tubed. The tubless wheel gave me all sorts of problems.

[owtdorz]

I run Stans and have a 29er. I carry two 26" tubes and upholstery needle and fishing line.
Duct tape, co2 and my frame pump.

[Roland Sturm]

29er Arch tubeless with Stans. Almost flat free in well over 10,000 off pavement miles (in CA, OR, WA, NV, UT, AZ, NM, CO, WY, MT), except when spokes break (3 times). Then immediate flat as the yellow tape splits. I have a 26 tube (for 29 tires) on short multi-hour rides as an emergency. For multi-day rides, 2 29er tubes at least. 26er stretch too thin, so are only good for short emergencies, just to finish a brief ride.

On the Coconino, i.e. AZ singletrack, after breaking spokes and losing my tubeless setup on day 3, even 2 29er tubes only got me through the end of the 3rd day despite dethorning the tire. So it depends on where you ride, single-track in Arizona and maybe other desert areas (there are some prickly ones in CA as well) seem to call for multiple sealant filled tubes as a backup. In areas without endemic goatheads/puncture vines, 2 standard 29er tubes would seem a safe backup. But standard tubeless setup with probably any sealant (as long as it is freshly refilled) can deal with prickly areas and will seal dozens of thorns. 

[trebor]

Hi trebor,
HaHa, I've only been seeking tire nirvana for about 4 years.
Looks like Stan's has really come along way. I can remember, back in the day,(never thought I'd ever say that haha )
when stan's was a DIY of latex house paint and oil to keep it from drying out.

Here's my one UST story. Might be time to look back into UST but I'm not looking forward to buying new rims and having them laced.
Back in 2009 I bought a set of Mavic cross with the big yellow plastic piece in place of rim tape.
I don't remember what brand of UST tires I put on but they had a folding bead and used slime as my sealant.
I believe I ran all year with out one flat.

However the following spring when I went to remove the tire to clean out the old sealant and replace it with fresh I could not
get the bead to break from the rim and I was in my garage with all my tools.
I ended up cutting the tires off the rim with an exacto blade.
I spent 90 minutes working on removing those two tires and saying to myself if I had to remove one of these
in the woods I'd be walking out. So I removed the yellow liners and put rim tape in.

Do you replace your stan's sealant annually? How do you deal with the mess if you removed your UST tire on the trail? Latex gloves?

Thank you

When I say 6-8 years of messing around, I mean that's how many years I’ve been trying all the options I could find or dream up. Every season and several times each season, I'd make a new latex mix, or try a new tire/rim combo, buy a rim strip, make a rim strip. They all had short comings.

The last two years I've been running Stan's wheels exclusively. I only get flats on the trail (this is just my experience) due to tire failure. Things like sidewall tears. I do occasionally wakeup to flats before the ride, usually due to the latex drying out. I've only lived in hot locations (Florida and Sothern California) and have learned to add the sealant at least every 2 months.

Even with the need to add I like them because they work well. I've only been running 3 or 4 different tire brands since riding the new hoops and I’ve had zero tire-to-rim compatibility issues. As you can see from Justin (Long Ranger) he's had different issues with tires, namely the Small Blocks.

Tire manufactures are now making a version of tire between UST and Conventional that works great with the Stan's hoops. There often referred to as "tubeless ready”. Fairly light, interfaces well with the bead, and inflate very easy. I have a set of WTB tires with their TCS system (tubeless ready from WTB) now, and these are GAWD awful tight. They may need to come off with a razor, we'll see. I also don't use true UST tires with Stan's wheels. There just doesn't seem to be a need and they are significantly heavier when compared to the tubeless ready.

Trial side, if there is any sealant left, it usually ends up on the ground. I try to capture it in a little 2oz bottle I usually carry, if there is room to take it. My hands just get messy - I don't care too much. After all, I am out to play in the dirt.

[Roland Sturm]

I've had problems with Kenda Small Block 8, first in getting it to seal (I don't have a compressor), second - and more worryingly - that it blew off the wheel (Arch 29er) at about 35 pounds. 

Tires that worked well have been Nano (but sidewall slashes), Saguaro (although a bit harder to inflate), Hutchinson Toro tubeless ready, Conti X-King. Only Nano have caused me flats on the trail due to sidewall cuts so far.

Tubeless, regardless of sealant choice, seems to work reliable - unless something else goes wrong. In my case, broken spokes. If you have a thick rim strip, it may be ok. However, the Stan's yellow tape splits immediately if you break a spoke and then the tubeless setup is over for the ride (unless you find a way to make the rim airtight again on the trail, duct or electrical tape doesn't hold with all the goo). So I put in a tube.

[trebor]

how did you break your spokes, Roland?

[Roland Sturm]

one was a stick/branch; the next was on a drop, but I'm not heavy nor a particularly technical rider, so it may just have been a wheel getting tired rather than anything particularly hard. The last was a bit mysterious, damaged 3 spokes on the Coconino last week while riding on an unremarkable double track talking to Mark Allen, 2 broke off completely. Fairly new wheel (<1000 miles), too. I suspected derailleur, but Mark didn't think so, maybe kicked up a rock and it wedged between frame and wheel. Lots of rocks on that trail getting kicked up, at one point one landed in my lap!

These were on 3 different wheels as well, but it means that about half my mountain flats in the last 3 years were due to spokes breaking (and the rest were slashed side walls on Nanos). Dozens and maybe even hundreds of thorns, glass shards, even a couple of cuts that may have been rocks, all of them sealed quickly. With tubes (and maybe with a more solid rim strip than yellow tape on tubeless), breaking a spoke may not automatically result in a flat, so here is something left to explore. Although I'd prefer just not breaking any more spokes (although rather spokes than bones, unfortunately yesterday's ride left the bike fine, but my collarbone in 3 big pieces and 2 splinters).

[THE LONG RANGER]

Dah! Heal up, Roland!

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

Two pumps, too (a normal one, and a micro one). And make sure they work

I sort of wish there was a DB on rim/tire compatibility for tubeless setups. For example, the Small Block 8 is a great tire, but it doesn't have a good rep. for tubeless compatibility with all rims. During the TD'12 Absolute Bikes in Salida were selling them like hotcakes, but wouldn't set them up as tubeless for anybody. I started out with SM8 tire tubeless, one tubed. The tubless wheel gave me all sorts of problems.

The Small Block 8 is one of my favorite tires for Colorado(bike paths to dry single track climbing) the only thing it does not do well is self clean in mud.
I even have a set of the UST. Man those sidewalls are really thick and that tire weighs a ton compared to a folding bead in the same size.
I'll bet the UST model offers better sidewall protection from cuts. Maybe a UST with very thin tube and stans or slime would be a good compromise?
I'm leaning that way on my next tire change for the DH bike. It maybe good insurance for better sidewall protection on the long distance multiday bikepacker as well.

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

I run Stans and have a 29er. I carry two 26" tubes and upholstery needle and fishing line.
Duct tape, co2 and my frame pump.

I'm new to the 29er world. In fact I have a new Rocky Mountain Altitude 970 arriving Friday.
What is the reason to use a 26" tube in a 29" wheel? Weight savings?

[Roland Sturm]

I'm new to the 29er world. In fact I have a new Rocky Mountain Altitude 970 arriving Friday.
What is the reason to use a 26" tube in a 29" wheel? Weight savings?

For me: it fits in a small saddle bag and a 29er tube doesn't. Really just carried for emergencies on short rides, not for overnight or multi-day trips with more luggage.

[Done]

I run Stans (with the rubber rim strips, not the crappy yellow tape) when I ride in the desert (western Colorado and Utah). Continental X-Kings and/or Mountain Kings (ProTection versions). Goat heads, cactus spines, and the like become non-issues. Stans dries out pretty quickly in the heat of the summer though, and needs to be replenished every month or so--which is a PITA.

I usually run tubes in the Colorado mountains and around Fort Collins. When changing tires often, they are just so much easier to deal with. And they don't need to be replenished during the heat of the summer!

[ryansigsbey]

I have heard that the Stans sealant has gone downhill in quality lately and is much more "watery" these days, less particles to seal up small tears.  Has anyone heard or found this to be true? 

[chrisx]

Slime is getting into the tubeless bike tire business.  I bought a bottle of slime, (bicycle specific), sealant from a slime trailer at an off road race.  Slime guy says it is better stuff.  Says he made a deal with gorilla tape and expects to market a tubeless bike kit in a month or 2.

Small block 8.  I had trouble mounting it with a low pressure gas station hose.  I had to install a tube which sealled one side. Then press up with my toes on one spot. meanwhile pressing my thumb through the tread to hold the bead close to the rim.  Soap suds helped locate the bigest gaps.  Mounting the same tire on a high pressure system took 3 seconds.

They are great if your route is part paved and part hard pack dirt.  If your route is all off pavement something else might be better.   Wet sand sticks to them like glue.

[Colorado Cool Breeze]

With my new 29er I stuck with the tubes that came with the bike for all of 2 weeks before I ran into a patch of goatheads.
1 pack of parks patches and 3 CO2 cylinders won't fix 50 goatheads.... I'm back to slime std thickness tubes.
I also add ~ 1 fluid oz of yard tractor slime.
Yard tractor slime is thicker with more particulates in it. Goathead holes seal in seconds.
This mixture lasts for 12 months easy with no monthly additions to keep it liquid.

[Slim]

I have run Mavic UST rims in the past. The last few years I have run Stan's and Specialized/Roval tubeless rims. Mostly with Specialized tires and Stan's, also a Bontrager and several Schwalbe tires.
Yes, the Stan's has to be replaced regularly, also make sure to pour with the bottle upside down, so you get the fibers, not just the liquid.
WTB and Geax UST tires do not fit(or very tight) on Stan's rims. Specialized and Schwalbe tires have ranged from loose to crazy tight for me, but all sealed well.
I carry a spare tube or two, Park pre-glued patch kit and. Mini pump with a hose and gauge (Lezyne alloy M with replacement gauge hose).

[Slim]

I'll bet the UST model offers better sidewall protection from cuts. Maybe a UST with very thin tube and stans or slime would be a good compromise?

UST does not offer  more sidewall protection, as it is an extra lining on the inside of the casing. It might add puncture protection and allow sealant to work better, as there is a thicker layer of material for the sealant to adhere to.

Schwalbe offers snakeskin sidewall protection on their tires, Kenda has something too. For a super tough tire, Specialized has the Grid UST, with UST lining and exterior protection. If its just thorns you are concerned about Specialized has Armadillo Elite, which offer really good puncture protection and is tubeless ready.