Subtle differences between a Surly Ogre vs. Karate Monkey?

[zuren]

I continue my quest for a new frame that falls into more of a do-it-all roll and can take on bikepacking duties.  I've been comparing offerings from Surly (Ogre, Karate Monkey), Salsa (El Mariachi), Soma (Juice) and On-One (Inbred 29er Slot).

I already have a Salsa Enabler fork and was looking closer at the Surly Karate Monkey vs. the Ogre.  I don't plan to ever invest in a Rohloff hub, won't use rim brakes, probably will never pull a trailer, and already have a fork with braze-on's so many of the main selling points of the Ogre would never be utilized.  The fewer features and lower cost of a Karate Monkey (w/o canti bosses) is becoming more attractive and used options seem to be more plentiful.  It appears both frames can easily accept racks and I would probably go with clamp-on fenders even if there were braze-ons.  Are there any other subtle differences between these two that I'm not seeing or considering?

Overall I think I've arrived at my list of "must haves" for a potential frame:

- cost effective (Salsa is probably out of my budget; Surly hits a middle point)
- simpler is better
- clearance for 29er x 2.4-2.5" tires
- large main triangle for frame bag

The Karate Monkey seems to hit all of these (particularly a used one) but wanted to gather some more feedback.

http://surlybikes.com/bikes/karate_monkey/bike_info

Thanks!     

[Cawlin]

Lots of thoughts on the ogre as well as pictures of different loads on different trips on http://www.whileoutriding.com.

[FatCloud]

The KM has prettier colors 

Sorry I'm useless, but it sounds like a KM is what you want, so pull the trigger. The Ogre is just a KM with bells and whistles (or at least it seems to me).

[tranzfuse]

zuren, what'd you end up doing?

I am seriously considering the Ogre myself. I have a CrossCheck right now and am thinking of getting something more "mountainy". Just curious how others that like/ride Surlys are getting on.

[zuren]

zuren, what'd you end up doing?

I am seriously considering the Ogre myself. I have a CrossCheck right now and am thinking of getting something more "mountainy". Just curious how others that like/ride Surlys are getting on.

I haven't done anything yet due to continued research and finances won't allow it at the moment.  The Karate Monkey has a couple strikes against it.  I read several reviews where the KM has a harsher ride than other potential models I'm considering like the Soma Juice.  There are also some issues removing the rear wheel on 2011 and earlier KM's with disc brakes (supposedly remedied after 2011 but apparently there is still a "trick").  Since I'm considering fatter tires (2.4"+) and maybe even a suspension seat post (e.g. Thudbuster), I'm not sure the stiffer ride will matter much.  I may want to see a KM first to play with removing a rear wheel.  The Ogre gets away from this by moving the caliper mounting point inside the triangle.  My interest may be shifting back toward the Ogre.  

I read other reviews where some complained that sliding dropouts can slip and creak on the Soma.  This would drive me crazy.  I'm getting rid of an EBB singlespeed frame due to the creaking.

[John G]

Keep saving and go for a Surly ECR when they come out?

[mangoman]

I'm always hunting for the One & Done, all-do, go anywhere bike. My Fatback filled that role for the last couple years. And then the Surly ECR showed up. Dang.

Long story short, I sold the Fatback a month ago and ordered an ECR from Cycle Monkey. Gonna run it with a Gates belt + Rohloff. Will it be The One? Who knows, but selling the Fatback to fund this ECR means I'm serious about finding out...

...and seriously grinning over everything I see and hear about the ECR.

To the OP, it sounds like the ECR meets your criteria—except for the large triangle. The geometry on the ECR—even the larger sizes—shows a pretty tight triangle. Would racks and/or extra fore/aft framebags alleviate the issue of a smaller triangle?

[boomer754]

Long story short, I sold the Fatback a month ago and ordered an ECR from Cycle Monkey. Gonna run it with a Gates belt + Rohloff.

Please post pictures when you get this! I have an ECR and am considering this route.

[mangoman]

Will do. Hoping to have the bike done in a week.

[Ride1gear]

I have had 4 karate monkies and loved them all. The geometry is super similar, the ogre has all those braze ons and for some reason canto studs as you know. I will never be without a KM. THe ride has gotten better over the years and the geometry is perfect. I ride mine as a full on race MTB, a rigid SS a commuter bike and a cross bike. I've loaded it and disappeared into the mists more time then I can count. The one bike I can count on is my KM.

[corwin1968]

I will add that the Ogre and the Karate Monkey use different tubesets, with the Ogre's being a bit stouter due to it's role as a touring bike. 

I got this from Ben at Surly because I'm in the market for an adventure bike and the only one I can test ride is a Karate Monkey and the Ogre is the one I'm interested in.  Ben did say the ride of one bike is a good representation of the other but the differences do go beyond the extra braze-ons on the Ogre. 

Hope this helps!

[mangoman]

Interesting article from Surly yesterday regarding the ECR's geometry, for what it's worth.

http://surlybikes.com/blog/post/engineering_controlled_recipe

[mangoman]

Not a final build (steerer is uncut, racks and bags will come and go), but this is my inbound ECR (built by Retrotec and Cycle Monkey). Medium sized frame, with a Gates belt drive, Rohloff, etc.

As mentioned above, I've been looking for a Do It All bicycle that can handle trail, gravel, even road. From everything I've read, the ECR fit the bill. Time to get her dirty and see if I'm right...