Surly KM v. Motobecane Fantom

[jondub]

I'm going to purchase a 29er hardtail for off road touring in the next month or so. $900 is pretty much my budget. I can purchase a stock 18inch Surly Karate Monkey from my friend for $700, but I'm considering purchasing a Motobecane Fantom 29er from Bikesdirect.

I want to tour with gears. So, even with the KM I would eventually get a SRAM 2x10 setup (which I think means getting a new rear wheel because I believe the KM comes with a freewheel and not a cassette).

I am torn about running a rigid fork or a suspension fork. I mountain bike with suspension and rigid forks on different 26 inch bikes. I like both setups, but I'm leaning toward running a suspension fork for touring. I feel the suspension will be great for the end of the day, riding down a forest service road feeling totally exhausted.

I am also torn about riding the steel frame v. the aluminum frame. I know the KM will hold up, but I really don't want the extra weight when I can possibly save it with an aluminum frame. I've read online that the Motobecane frames are made in the same factories as Trek's, but I'm not sure how that translates into an off road touring setup.

I'm looking for any advice. I'm all about running a lightweight set up, but I like to ride far and through all kinds of terrain and I'm worried about destroying an aluminum frame. I'm 6ft and 175lbs BTW.

Thanks.

-Jon


 

[paxton coyote]

i built up my KM in '06 & have close to 7000 miles on it & don't think I'd trade it for anything but a ti Fargo (already have a steel Fargo!) I've ran mine as a ss since building it, rigid all but about 6-8 months & may never put a suspension fork on it again. If the hub is a geared type hub with a spacer on it then you can use the same wheel. I'm 6' 5" & 260 so not concerned about the weight of my bike but how well it's going to hold up, mine weighs 30 lbs & I've rode it on singletrack & many miles of gravel & I love my Surly KM but like I said I now have a Fargo so it's seeing the longer miles on it than the KM, don't think you'll go wrong with one in the long run, especially at that price, you can build them up so many weighs to do so many things.

[seatown7]

I've got 3 Surly bikes...a Troll, a Cross Check and a Long Haul Trucker. I love the bikes and I love Surly the company. Never had any major customer service issues but I have called with questions which were answered quickly, accurately and professionally...as if they actually cared that you are a paying customer that they owe some form of service to in exchange for supporting their products and providing them with employment. Plus...Surly has a cult following so if you decide to sell the bike later...it'll be pretty easy is cared for and priced fairly.

Good luck on your new steed!

Bill

[kkjellquist]

Karate Monkey for soooooo many reasons.

[jondub]

I also love Surly. I've been riding bmx for almost 17 years and I fully appreciate the quality and longevity of 4130 steel. I've rode the KM, but I feel like the weight might not be needed for the touring setup.

I am not doubting the ability or awesomeness of the KM, I'm just thinking that shaving 4lbs of my frame might be really useful when looking at 100 mile days of singletrack and forest service road plus gear.

Hey paxton coyote, I dream of the Ti Fargo. Perhaps in another year or two.

Thanks for the input.

[kkjellquist]

The Tora is not a light fork...basically a Reba with steel stanchions.  With that said, I doubt the KM frame/fork combined is 4lbs heavier than the Phantom frame/Tora combo.

However, let's just assume it is 4lbs heavier....now add in your body weight, component weights, gear, water, food, etc.....in my case this would be up towards 250lbs.  That 4lbs is just over 1% of the total....not really significant.

I'm not anti-bikesdirect...I think they do some decent specs for a great price. 

[cackalak]

IMO, the KM has better geo than the fantom.  Plus the versitility is awesome on the KM.

Also, trust me, you want steel for those 100mile days over aluminum.  No matter what the weight penalty is.  Which, by the way, is nowhere near 4lbs.  Try 0.  BD makes cheap bikes.  We're not talking 3lb Niner or Ventana frames here--just a generic aluminum frame that weighs closer to 5lbs, which is a titch lighter than the KM frame.  Then add the heavy Tora fork, and you're right there with the KM.

[AZTtripper]

I am wondering if any of the guys recommending the KM are riding it with gears. I have heard that the horizontal rear end is a pain with gears.

A friend of mine is a big Surly fan and has a Cross Check so he thought he wanted the KM for the AZT 300 but our local shop guy talked him into a Salsa El Mariachi instead.

As for the MotoB or any aluminum bike I would say pass.

I would look at the Kona Unit. It's in your range and can be converted to gears by replacing the slider to one with a hanger.

Surly should offer a 29 frame with gear compatible drops.

[jondub]

I can totally agree with cackalak about the KM geometry. I think the shorter wheelbase is important for handling.

I'm now looking at other 29ers that are steel framed. I was back and forth on the aluminum frame, but I think the steel will hold up better.

Also, after reading some different fork reviews, I'm was thinking about the White Brothers Rock Solid,http://www.mountainracingproducts.com/white-brothers/rock-solid/] http://www.mountainracingproducts.com/white-brothers/rock-solid/, but since the stock KM fork is only 1lb heavier I guess I'll run that if I end up getting the KM.

I also emailed Surly to find out more about the frame weight since I couldn't find the weight listed anywhere online. I also asked them to throw a stock 18inch on a scale for me. I'll post that info if they get back to me with it.

I looked at the Kona Unit and it seems like a good bike.

I appreciate all the feedback.

[kkjellquist]

I am wondering if any of the guys recommending the KM are riding it with gears. I have heard that the horizontal rear end is a pain with gears.

I had a Bianchi Sok with rear facing dropouts and brake mounted outside the rear triangle.  Horrible design and it was a pain.  The KM rear brake placement is much better and that alone solves 95% of the PITA factor.  The Ogre designed mimicked the Fargo and put the brake inside the rear triangle...even better.

[cackalak]

jondub - KM is said to be 5.5lbs (according to http://www.jensonusa.com/Surly-Karate-Monkey-Frameset-1 ).  I believe that is for the 20", so 18 should be a tiny bit lighter.  For a complete, I'd say it's in the upper 20's, as the build components aren't that light.  But they are solid, though.

[jondub]

Bob Pavlica from Surly got right back to my on the KM weight. Although I asked for a frame weight and a complete bike weight, I only got the complete weight.

He recommended that I get an Ogre if I was planning to run a rear rack system (which I'm not) so those weights are listed too:

"Karate Monkey
16                          26lbs 2oz
18                          26lbs 5oz
20                          26lbs 9oz
22                          26lbs 12oz
 
Ogre
16                          No weight yet
18                          28lbs 5oz
20                          28lbs 13oz
22                          No weight yet
24                         No weight yet"

The real bummer about the KM is that the rear wheel comes with Surly hubs which are fixed or single speed options only. So I am looking at getting a new rear wheel or lacing a new hub with cassette for gearing. That is a pain in the butt, but I guess it'll be fun to ride the KM single speed for a while before gearing it.

I'm gonna spend some time weighting my winter/all around rigid steel Gary Fisher 26 and components this weekend. It's in need of an overhaul anyway. I'll post some weights if that interests anyone.  I'll throw some pics up too because it's got salsa woodchippers and shimano tiagra road shifters and I'm proud of the build.

I guess knowing the weight of the bike I've been riding on trails and around town would be a good basis for knowing what I'll be taking into the woods.