Tent help: Light Backpackers Advice Needed

[SVO]

Having trouble picking a tent solution.  Seems like lots of overlap between here and the light backpacking crowd that is more focused on camp gear.  Have an original (yes, OLD) Sierra Designs Flashlight, 3.7 lbs, slow set-up, not freestanding.  Also have a Golite Cave 1 tarp with beaks on either side.  And a REI bivy.  Location is CO, high country, and Utah.  With no bugs I could just make a Tyvek groundsheet, buy a couple of light tent poles and use the tarp (2 lbs. total).  But with bugs and the bivy added, we are now at 3.1 lbs and the Cave needs a good bit of messing around to get it taught.  Tempted to sell it all and buy a Big Agnes Seed House SL1 at 2.5 lbs.

Other ideas?  Some way I might employ what I have more effectively?  Thanks!

[bmike-vt]

Tarptent? I have a contrail. The moment is also good.

[PeteStaehling]

On a coast to coast road tour, I used the REI bivy along with a tiny tarp (6'x6') that I pitched over just the head end.  I used no ground sheet and no poles.  Trees and or the bike sufficed as poles.  It was kind of miserable when it was hot and buggy.

I have since started using a lighter bivy (Borah side zip 7 oz,) or a bug bivy (Ti Goat Ptramigan Bug Bivy 5.3 oz.).  I take the one that seems more suitable for the weather expected.  I also carry a tarp (Integral Designs Siltarp 1 at 7 oz).  Add a few light cords and some MSR Needle Stakes and the whole works comes in at about a pound.

As I said I typically carry no poles.  Something can generally be improvised and most of the time I don't pitch the tarp at all.  If there are no bugs I typically sleep on top of the bivy.  If I expect rain I pitch the tarp, but if an unexpected shower comes up I sometimes just pull the tarp over me and any exposed gear that I want to keep dry.

If I expect a lot of rainy days/nights, like for spring in the PNW, I might take a tent.  In that case I usually take my Eureka Spitfire 1.  With the minimum number of MSR Needle stakes and no stuff sack it comes in at 2 lb. 9 oz. and was under $100.  I like it better than the more expensive tents I have tried.  The only thing I don't like about it is that the folded poles are kind of long, but I just live with that given it's other great qualities.

[Smo]

The golite cave seems heavy for a one person siltarp. Looks like 23 oz online.  My (homemade) pyramid tent weighs the same, and fits two comfortably with bug protection.  The advantage of pyramid tents is that you just need a single pole or you can hang it from a tree branch.  And they are roomy.  The disadvantage is condensation (something that I'm working on fixing right now, we'll see how it goes).

Tarptents are pretty nice too.

Regardless of what you end up doing, I would ditch the tyvek groundsheet and make a polycro one instead (AKA heat shrink film from a window insulation kit).  A 4x8 piece weighs 2 oz, it's 100% waterproof, and surprisingly durable.

[PeteStaehling]

Regardless of what you end up doing, I would ditch the tyvek groundsheet and make a polycro one instead (AKA heat shrink film from a window insulation kit).

If using a tent with a floor or a bivy I go a step further and lose the groundsheet altogether.  During a coast to coast bike tour it struck me that I didn't need one and I pitched it in the trash.  I have not used one since.  I have done a few long rides both on and off pavement including another coast to coast road tour and a fair amount of backpacking since then and have not missed it.

[ImAFred]

I do the same as Pete, pretty much but not quite as light I use the REI bug bivy 16oz(no g.c. either), then a ul tarp 7oz if needed. However I'm trying to find a lighter bug bivy that I like, the system works well once you learn to pitch the tarp right for whatever condition, and you can use the tarp for day shade( I live in  the desert and there's been rides I'd almost paid anything for shade)  or a ground cloth as well if  the need arises

[PeteStaehling]

I'm trying to find a lighter bug bivy that I like

Not sure if it meets your exact requirements, but I like the Ti Goat Ptramigan Bug Bivy for warm weather.  I think mine is 5.3 ounces and it has worked out well for me on a few trips.  I do use a different bivy (Borah side zip 7 oz.) if I know the weather will be cool/cold enough that it won't be a sauna and I might want the extra wind protection and warmth.

[ImAFred]

That's a nice bug bivy

[SVO]

Thanks for the ideas so far guys!  More info: I have 25,000 miles of road self-contained touring background so am pretty familiar with what works there.  The things that are particularly different: This is for bikepacking, which for me is off-road or at least mostly off-road.  And I live in the rockies, so trails are steep and the weather is very unpredictable at high altitude.  Thus both weight and protection are more critical than road touring.

I am looking hard at the tarptents- I know folks who sing their praises.  Which model do you think fits my use best?  Why?

Does seem to me that once you get the kits TRULY comparable (no hiking poles on a bike, rear struts needed with some models, etc.) the weights are nearly equal with the smaller/lighter Big Agnes tents and the tarptents.  A factor to consider is the kind of backcountry tent sites you find on the Colorado trails: squeezing in among brush and few, large trees on non-level ground.  Tarps and tents that require lots of guys/stakes can be a serious PITA, especially when exhausted from riding at 8k+ elevation.  I don't think going without poles is a good idea in an area that can get intense storms any month of the year.  A conventional 2-wall tent also offers the no fly option for hot weather (Utah is a half days drive and has great riding). 

Eureka Spitfire 1:  Can a 6-footer sit upright in that?  It is priced right.

Pyramid tents:  Bug protection?  By pitching flush to the ground all around?  But when the bugs are worst that would seem to make it hot and steamy inside.

I like the groundsheet alternative materials ideas.  Tyvek is so 1995.

The Cave 1 tarp is just over a pound complete (which is without poles or decent stakes).  I have a good scale so I know.  I think maybe I'm trying in vain to use what I have when I really just need to buy new. 

[ImAFred]

There's always this....
http://bigskyproducts.com/big-sky-soul-1p-tent-worlds-lightest.aspx

[bmike-vt]

2 tarptents side by side, a moment and a contrail:


my contrail and wil's moment by mbeganyi, on Flickr

I got the contrail as it packs smaller and is just a bit lighter. If I were to do over I would get the moment. Pitches faster, less fuss. Side entry. Options for foul weather. And more headroom. Not that I need it - but the guy who pitched next to me is 6'2 and loves it. Although for fast and light he is debating adding a bivy setup to his quiver.

[SVO]

Thanks for the pic.  You ever weigh your contrail complete with pole and struts and everything?  Looks like the Moment is 2.6 lbs. with both poles.  The Moment and the Seedhouse look very comparable, just tarptent vs. conventional double wall and side entry vs. end.  I'd guess that the moment would prove more durable but the seedhouse more convenient.  I'd likely be happy with either.

And of course nice fatties.  I'm close to pulling the trigger on the Specialized.

[bmike-vt]

The struts are in the base weight. In wouldn't remove them. The middle strut to get a little ridge shape can be anything - a stick, etc. I made a thicker pole for the front - as you can tell I'm not a weight weenie, just conscious about size , pack space, then weight. 

I'll have to dig it out and weigh it.

[wahday]

I have been looking at the Seedhouse as well (2 person version) for bikepacking and other adventures with my son. One feature I do like about these over other lightweight tents is that you can pitch them without the tent body in non-buggy settings which gives some additional weight savings and solid wind/rain protection. Though you do need to have the footprint. But this is a nice option that the Golite and most other comparably weighted tents do not have.

Regarding footprints/groundcloths in general - if you have a floored tent, you do not need a groundcloth. You just need to clear the ground before you pitch. Most wear on tent floors actually happens from inside the tent as sand and grit gets rubbed against the bottom.

Typically I am a tarp camper as locally I don't contend with bugs either (I'm in NM). I have been in some rain storms and some pretty windy settings and never had a problem with respect to protection. The main disadvantage of tarps in my opinion is setup takes time and brain power. Every setting requires slight differences in setup depending on available trees, ground slope, weather conditions (prevailing winds, etc), etc. After a long day I do sometimes want to just pitch and be done with it. But aside from that, the weight and space savings can't be beat.

[chrisx]

big agnes fly creek.  About one notch under 2 pounds.  Keeps me dry in heavy rain


sent from seattle

[macr237]

I went with the Big Sky Revolution. Hopefully it turns up this coming week.

[mtnbound]

I really like my Tarptent Contrail - very light for a tent (26 oz), set up only takes 60-120 seconds which is nice after a long day or it is raining and you need a quick shelter, packs down to 14X4 (not great but not bad for a tent), I can sit up in it and change (I am 5"11) and keeps the rain and bugs out.  I know some have problems with condensation since it is single walled, but I haven't had much problem with that.

[Racingguy04]

I live in CO too, and my shelter collection includes an integral designs sil tarp 2, and a Big agnes fly creek UL 2. Most of the time, I just take the tarp, and a tyvek ground sheet. I don't carry poles. I use trees, or find sticks to use. I understand your wanting to have a shelter that you can use above tree line, but in my experience, the best way to ride out a storm when you're above tree line, is to get below tree line.

I like the bigger tarp because it gives me more shelter for a pretty minimal amount of extra weight. I like to pitch it in an A frame configuration if I'm expecting rain. Pretty much the only reason I'd consider the tent is for bug protection, but honestly with stakes and cord, the weights are close to each other.

[macr237]

I went with the Big Sky Revolution. Hopefully it turns up this coming week.

One of the benefits that I liked about this tent is the fact that the inner is connected to the fly by QR buckles. So to the erect the tent, you clip on the fly to the poles and insert the poles in the eyelets at either and and it is erected.
Another benefit is that it is self standing, so no need to find trees to tie it to and if the spot 6' to the left is better, just pick it up and move it.

[SVO]

Racingguy:  Thanks for the input.  Your tarp/ground sheet combo is very similar to what my set-up is that way.  I don't camp above treeline as a rule.  My desire to have poles with is both convenience and use in places without trees- desert+.  In well used areas in CO all the fallen wood can be picked clean of usable limbs for firewood (less of late with all the beetle kill).

macr237:  The Big Sky look to be nice products.  It does really bug me that the smaller manufacturers want to piecemeal it out in terms of both cost and weight.  The Rev 1 looks to be $370 complete and 2 lbs 10 oz.  The BA Seedhouse is the same weight and can be found for over $100 less.  I do think the exoskeleton is a superior arrangement in theory, but I haven't used one.  I'm not often forced to set-up in the rain but that could be a big plus for those who are.