AZT/CTR racers at night

[sherpaxc]

I'm 50/50 right now about being able to do the AZT this year.  It depends on how many days I have to take off in the fall.  Anyway, if I do make it to the start line I will want to do a lot of riding at night. 

My question is, what type of lighting are ya'll that have experience with these trails using at night?  This is my one piece of equipment that seems to be lacking.  Minimum amount of lumens?  Brands?  Flashlights or headlights?  I could really use some insight.

Thanks all.

[bartspedden]

My night time riding on the CTR was a joke. I was stumbling all over the place. While I never crashed, I did end up walking more then riding in the dark because of my clown like night skills.  Part of this may have been my lights, but for me the biggest part was my poor vision.  My left eye was much weaker then my right eye and it negatively impacted my depth of field.  So, for me, riding at night safely starts with good vision. I just had PRK (laser) to correct this yesterday.  Assuming your vision rocks I think a minimum of 70 lumens works if you have a bar mounted light and a helmet mounted light.  More is better. And there's so many lights on the market today that make 70 lumens look dim that I'm pretty stoked to see this product segment mature.  Most, if not all, of the truly bright lights suffer from over heating.  Once things get too hot it negatively impacts battery life. To this end most current "bright" lights require use of proprietary rechargeable batteries.  I know plenty of racers have figured out the battery issue for the CTR and use these brighter lights.  The upside side is that the more lumens you have the safer/faster you are.  The down side is that they are comparatively expensive and you can't buy replacement batteries along the trail.  

I've got two PrincetonTec EOSs and I'm happy with them for a lightweight "dim" setup. It's pretty clear from looking at the amount of time that I wasn't moving that I wasn't serious about riding at night though.  "If" I were to do another ultra it would be my goal to change this. I took the step to get my eyes zapped to fix my depth perception issues, so I'm pretty psyched to see if the 70 lumens will suffice for more serious night riding.  If not, I'll be looking into the fancier brighter lights.

Something else to note about night time riding... I think the type of trail determines how many lumens is desired.  My depth perception issues never showed on wide open trails over the course of a year of use.  I started riding in the dark last fall and would ride safely at speeds of up to 25mph.  Almost all of my rides last winter would start in the light but end in the dark.  When I say "wide open" I mean no trees or bushes on the side of the trail.  I think riding on trails that go through forrest change the dynamics of night time riding and probably make brighter lights more desirable.

I bet no one uses 70 lumen lights on 24 hour races anymore.  Why would they? It's no big deal to have a spare battery on you and the burn times on most bright lights are in the 6 hour time frame on their brightest setting.  At least that's what they say.  I'd love to hear what some real life experiences are with these lights.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents.

[sherpaxc]

Right.  Well, I've done puhlenty of fun night riding here in Austin on some technical stuff but like you said, those aren't the lights I'm going to use due to the fact that they are all rechargeable. 

What I'm wondering is what "other" lights people use besides the traditional lights.  For example, I use a Seca 900 but wouldn't really consider using that on the AZT.

Thoughts?

[AZTtripper]

I could just pull the standard bs and say look here http://www.bikepacking.net/category/reviews/lighting/

Also there have been several threads on this topic but I won't be the dick and just say look first ask second. Well ok maybe I will.

Just kidding this looks like a good review http://www.bikepacking.net/reviews/lighting/fenix-digital-p3d-q5-led-flashlight/ pretty sure I have seen several previous AZT riders using this or something like it.

I have 3 AAA Serfas lights one is an older version of this one http://www.serfas.com/product_details.asp?ID=294 that is great. Unfortunately they replaced it with this one and even though it is rated the same 200 Lumen the pattern is not the same and the light just doesn't seem as bright. I bought two of the new ones thinking to have them both on the bars and the old one on my helmet. It works but the new ones just don't seem to light up the trail as well as the old one.

I would say that the key thing is to have something that you can buy new batts for at any Circle K (local C-store) so AA or AAA I should think. Along with eating in restaurants you'll be getting every thing you need at Circle K.

I don't do a lot of night riding personally but there is no way that I can see making reasonable time with out some night riding. You don't need the same lumen numbers that you would for a 24 hour race IMO it's more about having enough light to keep moving. Also several sections of the AZT will put you in towns or on highways so you might look at some kind of light weight blinky and other reflective options. I have seen reflective tape in spots on rims to help with visibility.

Sorry about being a smart ass hope the rest helps some.

Tim

[aaron w]

I use 2 "Spot" headlamps by Black Diamond, one on the bars and one on the helmet.  3 AAA each.  These are the old version, 60 watt.  Although not nearly as bright as my primary night riding setup, I find these adequate.  I can't go as fast as I can with my bright setup, but after riding all day I'm not exactly bombing technical singletrack at night.  And they are plenty bright for climbing.  The Storm is a more waterproof light that BD makes, but I don't like the beam pattern as much as that of the Spot.

Has anyone tried the Corona by Princeton Tec?
http://www.princetontec.com/index.php?q=corona-bike

[sherpaxc]

Thanks Tim, sort of.  I am pretty aware of all the threads about lighting but was hoping to hear from people who (like you) have spent time on the trail at night on the AZT or CT and what worked for them. 

The Fenix sounds really interesting to me.  Lot's of models though.  Not real sure where to start with all that.

[AZTtripper]

Thanks Tim, sort of.  I am pretty aware of all the threads about lighting but was hoping to hear from people who (like you) have spent time on the trail at night on the AZT or CT and what worked for them. 

The Fenix sounds really interesting to me.  Lot's of models though.  Not real sure where to start with all that.

Ya you caught me in a smart ass moment.

Hope you can make the AZT this spring it's an amazing journey.

One more thing that I thought of when it comes to lights and the ones that I have experience with. It's not the number of lumen but the beam and how it hits the trail.

Obviously you need to be able to buy/replace the batts as you go. You'll want to travel light and make quick stops. So nothing fancy, I noticed that the Fenix in the review used a specialty batt but I think they make a AA version as well.

Lately I prefer the lithium batts as they are lighter and last longer as well as putting out more power. In my experience the C-stores almost always have them in AA but not always AAA.

Feel free to ask any AZT specific ? you might have. I'll do my best to answer, I enjoy sharing what I know about the AZT bike route. The only price is you have to put up with me being a smart ass.

[chrisx]

http://www.fenix light.com/viewproduct.asp?id=118
fenix ld20 velcroed to the helmet seems to work. runs on 2 AA batteries
I like to have a cheap planet bike light in addition to whatever else, because they fade slowly. Many lights stopo all of a sudden

[gdillon]

I used a fenix ld10 on my helmet and it worked well on the middle-brightness setting, combined with an MTE 300 lumen light on the bar.  The ld10 got pretty close to 4 hours burn time on 1 AA battery.  I would consider using one on the bar and one on the helmet for future rides.

[bmike-vt]

just picked up an fenix ld20, impressed thus far, and if the rain ever stops from the hurricane i'll get it out in the woods. not anywhere near the terrain here in VT as in the southwest, but i found a planet bike light on my bars, with a princeton tec on my head worked well last bikepacking ride - not single track - but rough dirt road and double track, in the woods. rode for 2+ hours after it was dark (dark meaning needing full lights).

i'll likely be going dyno + supernova next year, with the ld20 on my head.
i also use a petzel e+lite, set to red, for cue / computer reading, etc. doesn't kill the night vision like looking down at a white piece of paper with a bright head lamp...

[boddunn]

There's loads of AA battery lights on the market that'll kick out more than enough for night riding. If you want to know far, far more than you'll even need or want to know head over to the Candle Power Forums, there's a bike specific forum but there are lots of seriously techy guys on there who are able to analyse every single aspect of lighting.

[bartspedden]

Awesome info! Thanks for the heads up on the forum 

[boddunn]

No worries at all but don't blame me when you get a lumen addiction!
 I've got 5 AAA torches (flash lights to you American types) one of which is titanium, 4 AA or CR123 lights ranging in price from £40 to £120 plus a few head torches and an Exposure race light. Not sure what it is about them but they bring the kid out in me.
 Have a good weekend one and all,
   Matt

[Cosmo K]

Fenix LD20 on helmet and bars.  Rugged.  Long battery life.  Options for throwing more light when necessary. Takes AA batteries and is relatively light at 60g.

[sherpaxc]

Cool beans.  Thanks for the info.  I'm going to check out a Fenix LD soon and give it a whirl.  Where is the best place to buy from?  Amazon?

[bmike-vt]

Cool beans.  Thanks for the info.  I'm going to check out a Fenix LD soon and give it a whirl.  Where is the best place to buy from?  Amazon?

I picked one up from REI. Looking to get a second...

[gregclimbs]

I am very pleased with the trailled (http://www.trailled.com/) that Grady made for me for the ctr.

He made it with a 8AA pack (and sent me 2 packs that are exchangeable).  It has four settings, High, Low, Ultralow (stumbling speed) and flash.

When I first got it, first thing I did was do a burn time test and it ran for over 12hrs on high.

It is stupidly bright for being AA powered, stupidly lite (especially with lithium AA batteries) and I am very pleased with the purchase.

Next year, I intend to ride a LOT more at night.  And I have been doing more night rides with just this light to prep for it.

One thing I did learn, is that I went "lite" and left the helmet mount adjustor off and just used the velcro strap.  I would want the ability to aim the light and the weight would be worth it.



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